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Which is which? Is CED 214 the same as NGC 7822?

NGC7822 NGC Objects Deep Sky Nebula
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Tim Song Jones avatar
Tim Song Jones avatar
I recently photographed NGC 7822. When I check Astrobin and other sources I see CED 214 labeled NGC 7822. Which is which? They are clearly different objects  relatively near each other. Why the mixup? The plate solver doesn't tell me what my image is.

NGC 7822
Alan Hancox avatar
Alan Hancox avatar
Same object just different catalogue designations… ngc 3992 is M109 (same object different catalogues)

hth
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Tim Song Jones avatar
Tim Song Jones avatar
But in my copy of Interstellarum Deep Sky Atlas they have 2 different objects. One labeled NGC 7822 and one labeled CED214. It's confusing.
Bob Lockwood avatar
Bob Lockwood avatar
It depends on your field of view. Say 1x1 degree field will show NGC7822, CED214, Sh2-171 and a half dozen LDN objects.
All in the same field with their own labels.
Bruce Donzanti avatar
Bruce Donzanti avatar
I just posted this image and from all of my readings, both NGC 7822 and Cederblad 214 (Sh2-171) form this large molecular cloud and star forming region. 

NGC 7822 forms the faint northern arch at the top of the image, while Cederblad 214 is the brighter nebula towards the bottom.
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Jan Erik Vallestad avatar
Jan Erik Vallestad avatar
I wondered the same thing when I did mine: https://www.astrobin.com/nvkfa6/B/

To me though they all seem to be part of the same complex, as is the case with a lot of other objects as well. Perhaps they didn't really have the ability to actually see the structures well enough to determine whether or not they were separate objects. At least that's what I've figured as only the brighter parts are named. Sometimes all the different catalogues and names can make things a bit confusing, I guess that's why we often resort to nicknames.

Seems to still be a valid question for amateurs that are trying to discover new objects today, I sometimes wonder myself if they can actually determine for sure that it's not just a continued part of a larger structure in each case.
Roger Nichol avatar
Roger Nichol avatar
There are so many listed objects in close proximity that you can take your pick.  I went for LBN 587 for the bit that you have imaged. CED-214 / NGC7822 is a bit off the the upper right aa in my lower image.  


Alan Brunelle avatar
Alan Brunelle avatar
I recommend you look these objects up as presented by @Gary Imm .  He has great discussions on each of the thousands of entries he has made here and often gives the history of discovery or catalog specification.  Also, get his compendium for future reference.  I don't have the answer for your specific question, but by you doing specific research on these catalogs and their reasons for inclusion, you will be far ahead of where you are by just asking the question on this or any forum.  After all, you have some good answers here, incomplete answer, and some less than good answers, so given your lack of knowledge on the subject, what basis would you have of believing which answer?  Not to say a forum query is a bad thing.  Then YOU can tell this forum the correct answer to your question. 

BTW, duplications in catalogs are common.  Also, be aware that "mapping" softwares often do not map central or boundaries perfectly (or are located perfectly).
Bruce Donzanti avatar
Bruce Donzanti avatar
I gave a brief description above and Gary, like Alan stated, gives a nice description of this area.  But to try to clarify further, the confusion is simply due to catalogue merging and revisions.  The Ced214 comes from the original catalogue by the Swedish astronomer, Cederblad in 1936 and again in 1946.  It is rarely used today to identify objects but I used it like others have on AB.  The American astronomer Stewart Sharpless identified it as Sh2-171in 1959 while Beverly Lynds used other designations like LBN581 in her 1965 catalogue, thus the confusion.  A publication by  T. You. Magakian in 2003, “Merged catalogue of reflection nebulae”, in Astronomy and Astrophysics discusses the merging and revision of the various catalogues for reflection nebulae involving the outdated Cederblad and other outdated catalogues, then cross referencing them with the  IC and NGC catalogues.  The point of this was to help establish a more updated and less confusion clarification of over 900 objects.  The end result of this work can be found by searching Ced214 and NGC7822 in SIMBAD on the internet.  When you do that, you can see what is the most up to date location of the various subregions with this large area of nebulously with both newer and dated identifiers.  Unfortunately, all of these identifiers are still used today, some folks using the newer ones and other folks using the older ones, leading to the confusion.
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Tim Song Jones avatar
Tim Song Jones avatar
Thank you all.