Help Needed For Astrophotography Setup - Forums

Topic starter

Oct 10, 2023

Hey all, I'm pretty new to astrophotography and have started to create a list of a pretty good intermediate setup for deep sky, but I need some help/advice on the equipment, and any other things that you guys recommend, below is the list I have thus far:

Telescope: William Optics Zenithstar 61 II
Focal Reducer: William Optics Flat61R
Mount: Skywatcher EQM-35
Dew band: Online
T-ring: William Optics 48mm
Portable battery
Bhatinov mask
Bandpass filter

Guide scope: ZWO 30mm miniguider
Guide camera: ZWO ASI 120mm mini
Computer: ASIAIR mini
Cables: EQ direct, ...

Camera: ZWO

[b][/b]

The plan is to get the equipment in 3 "waves" (shown by the spacing in the list), so all the equipment that I get should preferably be compatible with the ASIAIR mini. I currently own a DSLR and intervalometer, so I won't need to get the ASIAIR immediately. With regards to cables, does anyone know of an extensive list that covers all the connections I would need between firstly, the mount power, and secondly, all the wires needed to connect to the guide-camera, ASIAIR and everything in between?

Secondly, I have heard pretty mixed opinions about the EQM-35, but as far as I can see, there are no other mounts at a similar price point that have all the features that the EQM-35 does. I am not really sure where to look, and thus I may be missing out on a mount, so does anyone have any other reccomendations for mounts with a similar payload capacity (22lbs), similar features and a similar pricepoint, or less? (<$1000)

Thanks!

Chase Newtson

Oct 10, 2023

Starting on wave one: you should be just fine starting, the mount should come with it's own power cable. You just have to make sure it's the correct type for the battery pack you're looking at (traditional AC plug, or a car plug). So, you will only need to make sure your DSLR and intervalometer has it's power, and also the dew heater. And, the WO scope has a built in bahtinov mask, in case you were looking at a separate one.

Wave two: The ASIAir comes with a few DC cables that can work if your battery has the DC out port. otherwise you will likely need to purchase additional power cables (AC to DC) for it as well, unless they started including them (they didn't for my Pro and Plus). Once you have power to the ASIAir, you can then plug the guide scope via one of the USB ports (120mini is USB C to A), your dew heater, which varies based off the brand, your ZWO camera (USB A to B AND if cooled, a DC to DC cable). Your ASIAir will also act as communication to your mount for guiding, you'll need to plug an ethernet cable from the ASIAir to your mount (or Hand controller if it's like mine).

As for mounts, that's tough because they are expensive, but also one of the most important parts of the astrophotography rig. I see many recommend to try to plan ahead and get the biggest mount you can afford. I don't have experience with the EQM-35, I use a Gem28 which I like, and it has a DC-out port that I use to power my ASIAir, so there's only one power cable going to my mount. The rest is on my image train. My Air also communicates wirelessly to my mount, so no ethernet. This keeps things clean and less likely to have cable snag.

The iOptron Gem28 starts in the low $1,000s with a payload of 28lbs.

Hope this was somewhat helpful, it's a lot of information and based off of my experience haha

Clear Skies
- Chase

Helpful

Joshua Lewis

Topic starter

Oct 10, 2023

Thank you for the response! This is all super helpful, and I just have a few other questions:

Chase Newtson:
Once you have power to the ASIAir, you can then plug the guide scope via one of the USB ports

Do the USB cables come with the ASIAIR, or is this something I would need to purchase separately? I know that I would need to get the EQ-Direct cable, is this the ethernet cable you were referring to? This question is also for the cable that I would need to connect to the main camera.

With regards to finding a mount, do you know of any reputable sites where I could find second-hand mounts? As this could definitely be an option. Thanks!

Well Written Respectful Engaging

M P Michael

Oct 10, 2023

Don't know if the AA mini comes with the same cables as the AA+. But assuming it does, it comes with a surprisingly large range of cables. The guide camera also comes with everything needed. ZWO - in my experience - are pretty generous with cables.

Joshua Lewis

Topic starter

Oct 10, 2023

Okay, awesome. Thanks

Chase Newtson

Oct 10, 2023 · Edited: Oct 10, 2023

Joshua Lewis:
Thank you for the response! This is all super helpful, and I just have a few other questions:

Chase Newtson:
Once you have power to the ASIAir, you can then plug the guide scope via one of the USB ports

Do the USB cables come with the ASIAIR, or is this something I would need to purchase separately? I know that I would need to get the EQ-Direct cable, is this the ethernet cable you were referring to? This question is also for the cable that I would need to connect to the main camera.

With regards to finding a mount, do you know of any reputable sites where I could find second-hand mounts? As this could definitely be an option. Thanks!

As M P Michael said, they are generous with cables. And I just checked, the Mini cam does come with a Type C cable or two.

As for the EQ-Direct cable, I am not 100% sure. My mount communicated with a simple ethernet type cable before I figured out the wireless capability.

I do my shopping at Agena Astro: https://agenaastro.com/. They do have a clearance/sales section that you can take a look! They usually ship fast in my experience (Minnesota), and they could answer any questions you may have. I purchased my mount from Optcorp, but they were acquired by Agena recently.

Helpful

Joshua Lewis

Topic starter

Oct 10, 2023

Thanks for the help! Ill check that website out now

Chase Newtson

Oct 10, 2023

Joshua Lewis:
Thanks for the help! Ill check that website out now

Of course! I'm happy to help when I can. Never hesitate to ask questions!

Happy buying

Well Written Respectful Supportive

M P Michael

Oct 10, 2023

@Joshua Lewis The ZWO website shows you everything that comes in the box for all their products. For example, heres the link to the AA mini page: https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asiair-mini/

Scroll down to the 'In the box' section. Its all there. Same for your guide cam etc.

Helpful

Ian McIntyre

Oct 10, 2023 · Edited: Oct 10, 2023

I had a lot of buyers remorse when it comes to William Optics. My experience with the WO Z61 was such that I relegated it to being the guide scope on my 8" RC. The cost of the Z61 plus the required field flattener will run you about $850. There are ways to get a lot more bang for your buck.

The Apertura ED60 is an APO with pretty close to the same specs but is currently $600 which includes a kit with the field flattener and guide scope. Sharpster makes one for $50 less than the Z61, but no kit.

For about $100 more than the Z61 option you can get the Askar FRA300 which is a 60mm @ f/5. This is a true flat field option. No extra flattener or back focus required (unless you attach a reducer later). I purchased the FRA400 to replace the Z61 and could not be happier. I highly recommend this series of scopes. Wish I had started with them. It would have lowered the learning curve transitioning from camera lens to telescope.

As far as a mount, I will echo the GEM28 suggestion. I found one used and I am pretty happy with it. Handles the FRA400 plus 36mm 7slot filter wheel and QHY268 camera with ease. Erring on the high side of capacity is advised.

As far as cable management, I am the spaghetti king. So I'm not the model for anyone to mimic. I will say there are millions of refurb laptops out there that are more than powerful enough to run NINA stably that you can get for a song. I am running 2 rigs with separate HP elitebook 840's. Depending on options and condition you can get them from $150-250 on Amazon. I have never had a crash or shutdown except for when I wasn't paying attention to the update scheduler. I tried the Astroberry Raspberry PI option as well but it added more brain power to navigate than I was willing to commit. I won't do ASIAIR for reasons I won't get into here.

One last thing: Its cloud season in the northern hemisphere, so sales are going to happen. Be patient (which I was not) and you can do really well with your budget.

HTH

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Oscar

Oct 10, 2023

Ian McIntyre:
For about $100 more than the Z61 option you can get the Askar FRA300 which is a 60mm @ f/5. This is a true flat field option. No extra flattener or back focus required (unless you attach a reducer later). I purchased the FRA400 to replace the Z61 and could not be happier. I highly recommend this series of scopes. Wish I had started with them. It would have lowered the learning curve transitioning from camera lens to telescope.

I second this recommendation. The Petzvel refractors are easier to use for beginners. A Redcat 51 is another great option.

Well Written

Joshua Lewis

Topic starter

Oct 10, 2023

Thanks so much for the advice, everyone!

tjm8874

Oct 10, 2023

Also I recommend FRA300 Pro in wave 1. FRA300 is incredibly sharp scope.

Wave 1
FRA300 Pro
Star Adventurer GTi (if you can afford, go to GEM28 or ZWO AM3)
Dew Heater, Wide-T ring, Battery, Bahtinov mask, 2" filter

Wave 2
ASIAir Mini, Guider, + ZWO EAF if possible.

Wave 3
ASI294MM Pro or ASI533MM Pro

These setup can work decade for your subcompact grab and go system.

My image GEM28+FRA300+533MM
https://astrob.in/29nr6d/0/

Joe Linington

Oct 11, 2023

Thé EQM-35 is a handy man’s special. I have had mine apart 3 times to tweak it and tune it and it still has to much backlash in the DEC. I guide relatively consistently at 1-1.4 arc seconds depending on conditions but it is very slow to settle from a dither and occasionally gets pretty messy in DEC resulting in spikes between 2-4 arc seconds. A used HEQ-5, CEM 26, GEM 28 would all be better but more expensive. My winter project is a full belt mod for the EQM-35.

The SharpStar 61EDPH is a better scope for the same price IMHO, the AT60 is similar but cheaper than the WO61 and the Askar 300 is a great scope but IMHO the 400 with the available reducer is a better long term spend, although a bit more money.

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Joshua Lewis

Topic starter

Oct 11, 2023

With the FRA300 pro, what t-ring should I get for it for a canon DSLR?

Philip F.

Oct 11, 2023

I am also going to recommend the little FRA300. It’s a petzval, so there are no concerns with perfecting the backspacing. You’ll find this useful when you start experimenting with different configurations, filters, and cameras. The FRA3-0 is small enough to work on the little star adventurer gti, but the mount is at its limit. You’d be much better off with the previously mentioned am3 or EQM35. I’d go with the aAM3 over the EQM35. The AM3 is modern technology with real connectivity such as Bluetooth and WiFi.

I know that some here will have an issue with the ASIAIR because it restricts you to the zwo ecosystem, or the company’s attitude towards open source technology. However, I still really like the ASIAIR because it makes everything so efficient. If you are really tech savvy you can set up a laptop or nuc to do the same thing. However, you’ll spend a lot of time learning how to make phd2 talk to NINA and ASTAP as well as learn all about ascom drivers. It’s a fun experience, however, if your main goal is to get out under the stars, start with the ASIAIR.

Helpful

Philip F.

Oct 11, 2023

Joshua Lewis:
With the FRA300 pro, what t-ring should I get for it for a canon DSLR?

Something like this will work fine. There are also thin ones on eBay that are useful if you want to use a filter drawer.
https://agenaastro.com/universal-astro-48mm-t-ring-for-canon-eos-camera-ua-48t-canoneos.html

NeilM

Oct 11, 2023

I'll give some slightly different advice. I would put the ASI AIR mini in the first wave. It's only $200 (you can sometimes find cheaper ones used - especially the first version of the ASI AIR which still works fine). This was a game changer for me and I wished I had started with it earlier. Fiddling with a laptop and drivers and software compatibility took me a long time and it did work eventually. But the ASI AIR works out of the box. Especially as you have already decided to go with the ZWO ecosystem. Camera control, focusing, polar alignment, data capture, automating the night's imaging plan, plate solving, slewing to and framing images are all a breeze with the ASI AIR and I can run everything from my iPad or iPhone from inside my house if it's cold out! The ASI AIR works great with my Nikon DSLR and even reports to me the battery level of the camera!

I also second the idea of getting a better mount to begin with. You asked where to look. Cloudy Nights Classifieds are good (there is a 24 hour waiting period after first registering). The only challenge with CN Classifieds is that it is inhabited only by astronomers and astrophotographers so you won't find too many 'killer deals' there because everyone knows the true value of the equipment. I was able to find an almost new HEQ5-Pro for $750 on my local Craigslist.

If you can't find a suitable, well-priced mount and you are anxious to get started, then I agree with tjm's suggestion. Start with a Star Adventurer GTI (lots of these for sale used) and then do a BIG mount upgrade when you're ready, and then sell your Star Adventurer. You'll likely lose less than $100 going this route.

I won't comment on the telescope because lots of people have weighed in already. I will say, however, that I had a lot of fun and got surprisingly good results with my standard Nikon lenses. If you haven't already tried imaging with the equipment you already have, I would strongly recommend it. It's amazing how much you can quickly learn - and a great benefit is that future purchase decisions become much clearer once you have even a little experience.

Last thing. You didn't mention processing software which is critical. A lot of people here use PixInsight which is very good but very expensive (around $300-) There are a lot of free options but it depends on whether you are in the MAC or Windows (or Linux) environment. I am on a MAC and I used Siril plus Photoshop and so far this is working for me.

Neil

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tjm8874

Oct 11, 2023

Joshua Lewis:
With the FRA300 pro, what t-ring should I get for it for a canon DSLR?

M48 Wide T-Ring for Canon
https://agenaastro.com/william-optics-48mm-t-ring-for-canon-slr-dslr-eos-cameras-black-tm-cn-eos-m48.html

(regular T-Ring is M42)

Joshua Lewis

Topic starter

Oct 11, 2023

Philip F.:
Joshua Lewis:
With the FRA300 pro, what t-ring should I get for it for a canon DSLR?

Something like this will work fine. There are also thin ones on eBay that are useful if you want to use a filter drawer.
https://agenaastro.com/universal-astro-48mm-t-ring-for-canon-eos-camera-ua-48t-canoneos.html

Ah okay, thanks!

Sean Mc

Oct 11, 2023

Another vote for getting a modern mount with good connectivity. I started the same way you are looking to. In my case it was a meade lx85 mount. Is it doable? Probably? I even bought an eqmod box and stepper motors. At the end of the day though, you have a mount that really isn’t made for photograpy, and has low resale value when you realize that it’s not working out.

i’ll also vote for going the asiair route. Sooooo much easier. There’s a reason why it’s so popular.

lastly, a vote for askar/sharpstar over WO.

Concise Supportive

Joshua Lewis

Topic starter

Oct 11, 2023

Philip F.:
Joshua Lewis:
With the FRA300 pro, what t-ring should I get for it for a canon DSLR?

Something like this will work fine. There are also thin ones on eBay that are useful if you want to use a filter drawer.
https://agenaastro.com/universal-astro-48mm-t-ring-for-canon-eos-camera-ua-48t-canoneos.html

Ah okay, thanks!

I'll give some slightly different advice. I would put the ASI AIR mini in the first wave. It's only $200 (you can sometimes find cheaper ones used - especially the first version of the ASI AIR which still works fine). This was a game changer for me and I wished I had started with it earlier. Fiddling with a laptop and drivers and software compatibility took me a long time and it did work eventually. But the ASI AIR works out of the box. Especially as you have already decided to go with the ZWO ecosystem. Camera control, focusing, polar alignment, data capture, automating the night's imaging plan, plate solving, slewing to and framing images are all a breeze with the ASI AIR and I can run everything from my iPad or iPhone from inside my house if it's cold out! The ASI AIR works great with my Nikon DSLR and even reports to me the battery level of the camera!

I also second the idea of getting a better mount to begin with. You asked where to look. Cloudy Nights Classifieds are good (there is a 24 hour waiting period after first registering). The only challenge with CN Classifieds is that it is inhabited only by astronomers and astrophotographers so you won't find too many 'killer deals' there because everyone knows the true value of the equipment. I was able to find an almost new HEQ5-Pro for $750 on my local Craigslist.

If you can't find a suitable, well-priced mount and you are anxious to get started, then I agree with tjm's suggestion. Start with a Star Adventurer GTI (lots of these for sale used) and then do a BIG mount upgrade when you're ready, and then sell your Star Adventurer. You'll likely lose less than $100 going this route.

I won't comment on the telescope because lots of people have weighed in already. I will say, however, that I had a lot of fun and got surprisingly good results with my standard Nikon lenses. If you haven't already tried imaging with the equipment you already have, I would strongly recommend it. It's amazing how much you can quickly learn - and a great benefit is that future purchase decisions become much clearer once you have even a little experience.

Last thing. You didn't mention processing software which is critical. A lot of people here use PixInsight which is very good but very expensive (around $300-) There are a lot of free options but it depends on whether you are in the MAC or Windows (or Linux) environment. I am on a MAC and I used Siril plus Photoshop and so far this is working for me.

Neil

Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely look into moving the ASIAIR to the first wave, but I am using the word "wave" very loosely in this sense, it's more of what I have a priority on getting. I also think that if I am forced to try polar aligning and star calibrating the "normal" way, it will be better for me in the long run as it will mean I have more hands-on experience. I have a Mac with Siril and GIMP and have been able to do some DSLR astrophotography with moderate success (see PFP for a photo of the LMC), so although I know I will eventually upgrade to PS and PI, those should be fine for now.

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