What is the best/right gain and temperature for the Zwo 183mc pro? - Forums

Hi guys. As some of you know I image mostly with the Rasa 8 equipped with the Zwo 183mc pro camera. I have been imaging at different gains at times and same temperature. But I will like to stick to one gain for a specific filter and sky conditions.

With the Astronomik L2 Uv/Ir Blocking Filter I have recently been imaging at gain 53 with 0 degrees temperature and with the Idas Nbz filter I have been imaging at gain 111 with 0 degrees temperature. All the same settings under bortle 3,4 and 7.

With the Astronomik,from my Bortle 7 home I always shoot with mostly 10 second exposures,sometimes 30 seconds and under dark skies I don't go over 2 minutes exposures.

With the Idas Nbz I always shoot with 5 minutes exposures no matter the bortle scale

My question is,should I use a different gain for a specific bortle scale and filter and if so,what gain or should I just stick to what I'm currently doing? Also for the temperature I always shoot at 0 degrees. What should I choose for the cold and warm months ?

Thanks in advance…

It just depends on where you are imaging. There is really no set rule, but more of how much noise you can live with. The cooler the camera the better when going for deep sky targets. So, just as a rule of thumb, I use unity gain (111) and I cool the camera as far as it will go and not vary too much as the night cools down. So, if your camera hits about 90-95% cooling temp when you're starting out, I'd stick with that all night and not change it or it will induce more noise.

111 gain temp -10c. Leave it there. Don’t need to change. The only thing you change is your exp time depending on how bright/dark the target is

Hi.
The manufacturer's recommendation is gain 120.
I used 111/10 and 5 minutes of exposure at - 0, but the bright stars burn out. I photographed Andromeda on the full moon at 120/30 and 180 sec exposure at - 10, and I noticed that the setting is correct, the bright stars are no longer burning and the color balance is ok. I used Optolong L-Pro 1.25 filters.

Andromeda wide

This camera does not have a lot of dynamic range, and the read noise benefit kind of tapers off after gain 100. So I would keep it between 0-100 gain to keep more DR for your RASA. And a general rule of thumb is to let your cooler run around 30% power, this will depend on where you live which temperature that corresponds to.

I’m paired with the redcat 51. Sampling is perfect and 111gain -10c is what I use. All subjective to the user. Check out my page for image examples

Spencer:
111 gain temp -10c. Leave it there. Don’t need to change. The only thing you change is your exp time depending on how bright/dark the target is

*** What about which filter i use for that night and sky background?***

Bray Falls:
This camera does not have a lot of dynamic range, and the read noise benefit kind of tapers off after gain 100. So I would keep it between 0-100 gain to keep more DR for your RASA. And a general rule of thumb is to let your cooler run around 30% power, this will depend on where you live which temperature that corresponds to.

*** Thanks Bray. I live north of England. I just like to know if i should just keep the 0 degrees temperature all year round or choose a specific temperature for the Summer months and one for the colder months***

Hi,
I used gain/offset/temp 120/10/ -15 with 300sec on NGC6960 this summer, seemed to work out ok on ED80 F4.5 and an IDAS NBZ dual narrowband Ha/Oiii filter. For broadband I'd lower the exposure time. Also I've been aiming for a median adu value of about 3 x's the adu value of a dark frame on the lights. And don't be intimidated by the amp glow it calibrates out just fine with good darks, dark flats.

It just depends on what you are imaging. There is really no set rule, but more of how much noise you can live with. The cooler the camera the better when going for deep sky targets. So, just as a rule of thumb, I use unity gain (111) and I cool the camera as far as it will go and not vary too much as the night cools down. So, if your camera hits about 90-95% cooling temp when you're starting out, I'd stick with that all night and not change it or it will induce more noise.

*** Thank you. But say during the summer months is it not best to stick at a specific temperature and do the same during cooler months?***

Hi,
I used gain/offset/temp 120/10/ -15 with 300sec on NGC6960 this summer, seemed to work out ok on ED80 F4.5 and an IDAS NBZ dual narrowband Ha/Oiii filter. For broadband I'd lower the exposure time. Also I've been aiming for a median adu value of about 3 x's the adu value of a dark frame on the lights. And don't be intimidated by the amp glow it calibrates out just fine with good darks, dark flats.

*** Hi,to be honest I have not experienced any issues with my current settings so I might just keep it as that. I was just wondering if there was a specific setting to follow. But I might lower the gain to 100***

As long as you stick with the same temp the entire imaging session, you'll be ok. You can image at -10, 0, etc. or any other temp as long as you have the correct calibration frames to match that specific temp. The cooler the camera, the better. So, I look at how much my camera will cool down when I'm starting the session. As long as the night is not expected to get warmer, and my camera isn't maxed out on cooling power, I just leave it at that temp for the entire session. Then, if needed, I take darks at that temp as well. But, having a calibration frame library of different temps is very helpful when the temps start changing. I like to refresh my calibration frame library about every 6 months. Remember, there are no moving parts in the camera cooler so there is nothing to wear out, nor will it reduce your dynamic range as long as it is not maxed out where it can't compensate for slight temp changes through the night. It can't damage the camera even if it's running at 95% all night. You may see it fluctuate about a degree and a half, but that is fine as long as it stays close to your set temp.

Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
111 gain temp -10c. Leave it there. Don’t need to change. The only thing you change is your exp time depending on how bright/dark the target is

*** What about which filter i use for that night and sky background?**your settings never should change. You would just change the exposure time. For uv/ir filter “RGB” I use 120” exps. For narrowband I use 180” exps. The shallow well depth and tiny pixels with the 183mc pro you don’t want to exceed to long of exposures past that because you can blow out stars especially with broadband filters. 111gain -10c temp is the sweet spot for good SNR.

Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
111 gain temp -10c. Leave it there. Don’t need to change. The only thing you change is your exp time depending on how bright/dark the target is

*** What about which filter i use for that night and sky background?***

I am in Bortle 3. I use uv/ir and L-pro 2” filters for broadband and L-eNhance 2” for narrowband

Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
111 gain temp -10c. Leave it there. Don’t need to change. The only thing you change is your exp time depending on how bright/dark the target is

*** What about which filter i use for that night and sky background?**your settings never should change. You would just change the exposure time. For uv/ir filter “RGB” I use 120” exps. For narrowband I use 180” exps. The shallow well depth and tiny pixels with the 183mc pro you don’t want to exceed to long of exposures past that because you can blow out stars especially with broadband filters. 111gain -10c temp is the sweet spot for good SNR.

*** yeah with the broadband filter i never exceed 2 minutes exposures. With the broadband i always use 5 minutes exposures as most times i will use the broadband stars anyway. But for the -10c temp,do you keep it the same all year round?***

Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
111 gain temp -10c. Leave it there. Don’t need to change. The only thing you change is your exp time depending on how bright/dark the target is

*** What about which filter i use for that night and sky background?**your settings never should change. You would just change the exposure time. For uv/ir filter “RGB” I use 120” exps. For narrowband I use 180” exps. The shallow well depth and tiny pixels with the 183mc pro you don’t want to exceed to long of exposures past that because you can blow out stars especially with broadband filters. 111gain -10c temp is the sweet spot for good SNR.

*** yeah with the broadband filter i never exceed 2 minutes exposures. With the broadband i always use 5 minutes exposures as most times i will use the broadband stars anyway. But for the -10c temp,do you keep it the same all year round?***

Yes. I never change the settings. If your target is dim you would need more data time to bring it out. If it’s dim I usually set a goal of at least 10hrs of data. Brighter targets 6hrs minimum. Just my opinion for bringing out all the details that I can. Especially the faint detail surrounding the target

As long as you stick with the same temp the entire imaging session, you'll be ok. You can image at -10, 0, etc. or any other temp as long as you have the correct calibration frames to match that specific temp. The cooler the camera, the better. So, I look at how much my camera will cool down when I'm starting the session. As long as the night is not expected to get warmer, and my camera isn't maxed out on cooling power, I just leave it at that temp for the entire session. Then, if needed, I take darks at that temp as well. But, having a calibration frame library of different temps is very helpful when the temps start changing. I like to refresh my calibration frame library about every 6 months. Remember, there are no moving parts in the camera cooler so there is nothing to wear out, nor will it reduce your dynamic range as long as it is not maxed out where it can't compensate for slight temp changes through the night. It can't damage the camera even if it's running at 95% all night. You may see it fluctuate about a degree and a half, but that is fine as long as it stays close to your set temp.

*** Thank you for your input. I always use the same temperature all night so i will just stick to the 0c***

Abdul Thomas Jnr:
As long as you stick with the same temp the entire imaging session, you'll be ok. You can image at -10, 0, etc. or any other temp as long as you have the correct calibration frames to match that specific temp. The cooler the camera, the better. So, I look at how much my camera will cool down when I'm starting the session. As long as the night is not expected to get warmer, and my camera isn't maxed out on cooling power, I just leave it at that temp for the entire session. Then, if needed, I take darks at that temp as well. But, having a calibration frame library of different temps is very helpful when the temps start changing. I like to refresh my calibration frame library about every 6 months. Remember, there are no moving parts in the camera cooler so there is nothing to wear out, nor will it reduce your dynamic range as long as it is not maxed out where it can't compensate for slight temp changes through the night. It can't damage the camera even if it's running at 95% all night. You may see it fluctuate about a degree and a half, but that is fine as long as it stays close to your set temp.

*** Thank you for your input. I always use the same temperature all night so i will just stick to the 0c*with the 183mc pro the best SNR is with settings of 111 gain -10c, but if you are happy with the image outcome then keep it where you like it. It’s all personal preference. No set rule😎

Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
111 gain temp -10c. Leave it there. Don’t need to change. The only thing you change is your exp time depending on how bright/dark the target is

*** What about which filter i use for that night and sky background?**your settings never should change. You would just change the exposure time. For uv/ir filter “RGB” I use 120” exps. For narrowband I use 180” exps. The shallow well depth and tiny pixels with the 183mc pro you don’t want to exceed to long of exposures past that because you can blow out stars especially with broadband filters. 111gain -10c temp is the sweet spot for good SNR.

*** yeah with the broadband filter i never exceed 2 minutes exposures. With the broadband i always use 5 minutes exposures as most times i will use the broadband stars anyway. But for the -10c temp,do you keep it the same all year round?***

Yes. I never change the settings. If your target is dim you would need more data time to bring it out. If it’s dim I usually set a goal of at least 10hrs of data. Brighter targets 6hrs minimum. Just my opinion for bringing out all the details that I can. Especially the faint detail surrounding the target

*** Okay thank you***

Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
As long as you stick with the same temp the entire imaging session, you'll be ok. You can image at -10, 0, etc. or any other temp as long as you have the correct calibration frames to match that specific temp. The cooler the camera, the better. So, I look at how much my camera will cool down when I'm starting the session. As long as the night is not expected to get warmer, and my camera isn't maxed out on cooling power, I just leave it at that temp for the entire session. Then, if needed, I take darks at that temp as well. But, having a calibration frame library of different temps is very helpful when the temps start changing. I like to refresh my calibration frame library about every 6 months. Remember, there are no moving parts in the camera cooler so there is nothing to wear out, nor will it reduce your dynamic range as long as it is not maxed out where it can't compensate for slight temp changes through the night. It can't damage the camera even if it's running at 95% all night. You may see it fluctuate about a degree and a half, but that is fine as long as it stays close to your set temp.

*** Thank you for your input. I always use the same temperature all night so i will just stick to the 0c*with the 183mc pro the best SNR is with settings of 111 gain -10c, but if you are happy with the image outcome then keep it where you like it. It’s all personal preference. No set rule😎

*** Yeah I will just go with the 111 gain for both filters and lower the exposure time at my Bortle 7 skies apart from the Idas nbz as i won't be using the stars. Also will go with the -10c. But should I also keep these same settings when I pair the camera with my edge HD 8?***

Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
As long as you stick with the same temp the entire imaging session, you'll be ok. You can image at -10, 0, etc. or any other temp as long as you have the correct calibration frames to match that specific temp. The cooler the camera, the better. So, I look at how much my camera will cool down when I'm starting the session. As long as the night is not expected to get warmer, and my camera isn't maxed out on cooling power, I just leave it at that temp for the entire session. Then, if needed, I take darks at that temp as well. But, having a calibration frame library of different temps is very helpful when the temps start changing. I like to refresh my calibration frame library about every 6 months. Remember, there are no moving parts in the camera cooler so there is nothing to wear out, nor will it reduce your dynamic range as long as it is not maxed out where it can't compensate for slight temp changes through the night. It can't damage the camera even if it's running at 95% all night. You may see it fluctuate about a degree and a half, but that is fine as long as it stays close to your set temp.

*** Thank you for your input. I always use the same temperature all night so i will just stick to the 0c*with the 183mc pro the best SNR is with settings of 111 gain -10c, but if you are happy with the image outcome then keep it where you like it. It’s all personal preference. No set rule😎

*** Yeah I will just go with the 111 gain for both filters and lower the exposure time at my Bortle 7 skies apart from the Idas nbz as i won't be using the stars. Also will go with the -10c. But should I also keep these same settings when I pair the camera with my edge HD 8?***

Honestly, the 183 isn’t ideal paired with the HD for sampling purposes. The 294mc pro would be a better match. As afar as settings, I would leave it at 111 -10 because that sensor is best performed at those settings. You would just need more data time to bring out details at f/10 (not fast). I would recommend setting your data goal to 10hrs minimum and see how it turns out after processing. May need more/less depending on your outcome. At a high Bortle site, definitely more is better

Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
As long as you stick with the same temp the entire imaging session, you'll be ok. You can image at -10, 0, etc. or any other temp as long as you have the correct calibration frames to match that specific temp. The cooler the camera, the better. So, I look at how much my camera will cool down when I'm starting the session. As long as the night is not expected to get warmer, and my camera isn't maxed out on cooling power, I just leave it at that temp for the entire session. Then, if needed, I take darks at that temp as well. But, having a calibration frame library of different temps is very helpful when the temps start changing. I like to refresh my calibration frame library about every 6 months. Remember, there are no moving parts in the camera cooler so there is nothing to wear out, nor will it reduce your dynamic range as long as it is not maxed out where it can't compensate for slight temp changes through the night. It can't damage the camera even if it's running at 95% all night. You may see it fluctuate about a degree and a half, but that is fine as long as it stays close to your set temp.

*** Thank you for your input. I always use the same temperature all night so i will just stick to the 0c*with the 183mc pro the best SNR is with settings of 111 gain -10c, but if you are happy with the image outcome then keep it where you like it. It’s all personal preference. No set rule😎

*** Yeah I will just go with the 111 gain for both filters and lower the exposure time at my Bortle 7 skies apart from the Idas nbz as i won't be using the stars. Also will go with the -10c. But should I also keep these same settings when I pair the camera with my edge HD 8?***

Honestly, the 183 isn’t ideal paired with the HD for sampling purposes. The 294mc pro would be a better match. As afar as settings, I would leave it at 111 -10 because that sensor is best performed at those settings. You would just need more data time to bring out details at f/10 (not fast). I would recommend setting your data goal to 10hrs minimum and see how it turns out after processing. May need more/less depending on your outcome. At a high Bortle site, definitely more is better

*** Thanks. With the edge hd 8 im definitely will be aiming for a minimum of 10 hours and will be shooting at F7***

Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
Spencer:
Abdul Thomas Jnr:
As long as you stick with the same temp the entire imaging session, you'll be ok. You can image at -10, 0, etc. or any other temp as long as you have the correct calibration frames to match that specific temp. The cooler the camera, the better. So, I look at how much my camera will cool down when I'm starting the session. As long as the night is not expected to get warmer, and my camera isn't maxed out on cooling power, I just leave it at that temp for the entire session. Then, if needed, I take darks at that temp as well. But, having a calibration frame library of different temps is very helpful when the temps start changing. I like to refresh my calibration frame library about every 6 months. Remember, there are no moving parts in the camera cooler so there is nothing to wear out, nor will it reduce your dynamic range as long as it is not maxed out where it can't compensate for slight temp changes through the night. It can't damage the camera even if it's running at 95% all night. You may see it fluctuate about a degree and a half, but that is fine as long as it stays close to your set temp.

*** Thank you for your input. I always use the same temperature all night so i will just stick to the 0c*with the 183mc pro the best SNR is with settings of 111 gain -10c, but if you are happy with the image outcome then keep it where you like it. It’s all personal preference. No set rule😎

*** Yeah I will just go with the 111 gain for both filters and lower the exposure time at my Bortle 7 skies apart from the Idas nbz as i won't be using the stars. Also will go with the -10c. But should I also keep these same settings when I pair the camera with my edge HD 8?***

Honestly, the 183 isn’t ideal paired with the HD for sampling purposes. The 294mc pro would be a better match. As afar as settings, I would leave it at 111 -10 because that sensor is best performed at those settings. You would just need more data time to bring out details at f/10 (not fast). I would recommend setting your data goal to 10hrs minimum and see how it turns out after processing. May need more/less depending on your outcome. At a high Bortle site, definitely more is better

*** Thanks. With the edge hd 8 im definitely will be aiming for a minimum of 10 hours and will be shooting at F7***

Nice! Definitely post when done. Would love to see the results

I just want to add that I have had this camera for 3 years and now only use Gain 111, Offset 8, -10C.
The 183 get's better the cooler it is but I found -10 is good for warm nights in Spain. Any lower and the camera may not reach the target temp making any -10 C library of darks unusable.

All good stuff here so no much else to add.

Eric Smith:
I just want to add that I have had this camera for 3 years and now only use Gain 111, Offset 8, -10C.
The 183 get's better the cooler it is but I found -10 is good for warm nights in Spain. Any lower and the camera may not reach the target temp making any -10 C library of darks unusable.

All good stuff here so no much else to add.

*** Okay thank you***