Dark Matters Lyra Update - Forums

Topic starter

Aug 31, 2023 · Edited: Aug 31, 2023

I am posting this here, as this product was developed with the E160ED community in mind first, and thus would be the right place for us to plant the first seed of the product.

The big announcement, for those that followed in the other thread, is that the price has been reduced for the Base Lyra from $200 to $125. We were able to obtain a good deal that helped reduce the cost of production of the device greatly. The custom spaced dovetail option has been reduced from $75 to $50 as well.

For those unaware, Lyra is a manual rotator and quick disconnect system that supports QHY, ZWO, and Pegasus Astro filters wheels, as well as the QHYOAG and Pegasus Indigo OAG for connection. The base unit as it comes, only uses 12mm of backfocus. The dovetail portion of this, uses 1.5mm and can be made in any thickness larger than 1.5mm that you desire -- thus allowing you to obtain a very low cost custom spaced solution. The rotation and quick disconnect feature is incredible for framing your target and for making very small 0.1mm incremental spacing changes, as removing the imaging train no longer requires you to thread the entire thing on and off. Just loosen the thumbscrews and pull it right off!

More information is here:

Lyra Base: Dark Matters Lyra Base Unit | Dark Matters Astrophotography
Lyra Custom Dovetail: Dark Matters Custom Lyra Dovetail | Dark Matters Astrophotography

The updated photos and descriptions and product details will be in place by the end of the week. If you have any questions for me, just let me know. I have many units in stock and ready to ship.

Thanks,
Bill Long

Helpful

Paul Wilson

Aug 31, 2023

Gosh I have been wondering how I am supposed to rotate the camera on my new 160. This is a must have!

Dan H. M.

Aug 31, 2023

That's great news. I love my Lyra and may buy another to permanently mount on my other camera.

And just for those wondering - Lyra will work perfectly well on the Epsilon 130D (and presumably the Epsilon 180ED). I have it set up with the 2047 Studio focuser on my 130D and it's leaps and bounds better than the low-quality spacers and unreliable rotators that I originally had to deal with.

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Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Aug 31, 2023

Paul Wilson:
Gosh I have been wondering how I am supposed to rotate the camera on my new 160. This is a must have!

We tried all of the other options on the market and they did not work well, so we made this to solve the problem.

The big selling point on top of rotation and quick disconnection, is that you can order a custom sized dovetail to also minimize/eliminate the need for spacer stacks.

That's great news. I love my Lyra and may buy another to permanently mount on my other camera.

And just for those wondering - Lyra will work perfectly well on the Epsilon 130D (and presumably the Epsilon 180ED). I have it set up with the 2047 Studio focuser on my 130D and it's leaps and bounds better than the low-quality spacers and unreliable rotators that I originally had to deal with.

The Lyra will work well on any system that uses the same hole pattern as QHY, ZWO, or Pegasus. The device was designed to ensure that the thumbscrews do not come in contact with the Pegasus Indigo OAG, and can directly connect to it, give you a solid 22mm backfocus OAG + Rotator combo. Something much needed given the short space on systems like the Epsilon.

Helpful

Paul Wilson

Sep 2, 2023

I ordered one, such a nice scope deserves to have some kind of rotator. My first thought was how was I going to be able to get this year's Andromeda Galaxy into the frame without the edges cut off.
I would look at the NINA framing assistant and think, great, now if the assistant would kindly rotate the image for me…

Chris White- Overcast Observatory

Sep 2, 2023

Great news Bill! I'm sure this will be welcome to folks. There really are not any other good manual rotators out there.

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Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 7, 2023

Chris White- Overcast Observatory:
Great news Bill! I'm sure this will be welcome to folks. There really are not any other good manual rotators out there.

Yes, that is why we designed it. That and making custom adapters a more affordable option for folks that own and use the Lyra.

Dan H. M.

Sep 7, 2023

Any plans to make an adapter for DSLRs and mirrorless cameras? I've sometimes thought about putting a DSLR on my Epsilon but with an upgraded focuser there's no way to rotate it.

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Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 8, 2023

Any plans to make an adapter for DSLRs and mirrorless cameras? I've sometimes thought about putting a DSLR on my Epsilon but with an upgraded focuser there's no way to rotate it.

This is something we do plan to do. We also want to make it available on other systems that do not use the current mounting solution. We also may create an XL version that will support 44x33 and larger chips.

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 10, 2023

Another update.

The Canon EF/EF-S and Nikon F mount compatible Lyra bases are finishing up design then we'll move onto testing. I'd estimate that we'll have this ready by the end of this month, if not sooner.

Huge news for DSLR users. Rotation and custom spacing will be wonderful for them to have available.

Bill

Well Written

Dan H. M.

Sep 10, 2023 · Edited: Sep 10, 2023

Another update.

The Canon EF/EF-S and Nikon F mount compatible Lyra bases are finishing up design then we'll move onto testing. I'd estimate that we'll have this ready by the end of this month, if not sooner.

Huge news for DSLR users. Rotation and custom spacing will be wonderful for them to have available.

Bill

That's amazing news!

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 10, 2023

Another update.

The Canon EF/EF-S and Nikon F mount compatible Lyra bases are finishing up design then we'll move onto testing. I'd estimate that we'll have this ready by the end of this month, if not sooner.

Huge news for DSLR users. Rotation and custom spacing will be wonderful for them to have available.

Bill

That's amazing news!

Thanks, it's definitely great for those users. OSC Astro camera users may be another we'll look at to see if our existing Lyra design isn't working for them and make some updates to ensure they are well supported as well.

Bill

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 21, 2023

Hello again,

We are very happy to annouce that we are in the final stages of testing of the Canon and Nikon Lyra units!

At the same time, we have had some very serious improvements in time to produce Lyra that we are happy and proud to announce to you all that the price of the standard Lyra is now $100 and this will be the price we stand by moving forward.

Our vision was to produce the best rotator system we could, and we have proven that on countless Epsilon systems. We wanted it to be the cheapest it could be for users, and we have now finally hit that level of engineering excellence and printer quality that we can safely produce units fast enough to meet the demand at this extremely low price point.

Custom dovetails remain at $50 each, as there is manual work involved in them at this stage.

One last thing – if you refer a customer to me, that buys a Lyra from us, you get 50% off your next custom dovetail purchase.

Feel free to DM me here or email us via our contact page to learn more about how to redeem this offer.

Just our way of saying thanks, and trying to be a force of good in the community.

Clear Skies,
Bill Long

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 22, 2023

Another quick update. We have released our Lyra Cap Kit on the site. The Lyra Cap Kit includes a telescope side cap with thumbscrews, and a camera side dovetail cap that will allow you to keep your scope and camera safe from dust and other bad things while you do not have it in use.

The Lyra Cap Kit will retail on the site for $40 and are made with PETG filament, which will ensure they can endure any temperatures and environments they made end up in.

Dark Matters Lyra Cap Kit | Dark Matters Astrophotography

We are working on glamour shots of the products all up now, so those will be updated in the next week or so. We are accepting orders on all Lyra products, including caps now.

Thanks,
Bill Long

Helpful

mrflib

Sep 22, 2023

Hi Bill

Are there any pics or diagrams of your unit? Struggling to see how it works with OAG / Tilt plate adapter etc?

mrflib

Sep 22, 2023

Sorry just saw your above post lol. Look forward to the pics.

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 22, 2023

Hi Bill

Are there any pics or diagrams of your unit? Struggling to see how it works with OAG / Tilt plate adapter etc?

We are working on the photos.

The Lyra connects to your filter wheel directly or the OAG directly. It uses 10.5mm of backfocus for the base and 1.5mm for the dovetail it connects to. We can make the Dovetail in any thickness you want. Thus it can replace precise parts for basic adapter needs.

-Bill

mrflib

Sep 22, 2023

So these parts are plastic FDM? No issues with flex etc?

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 23, 2023

So these parts are plastic FDM? No issues with flex etc?

The parts are made with a filament that is Polycarbonate with chopped carbon fiber. We do not use traditional plastic (ABS) as it's not strong enough.

The parts do not flex, sag, etc.

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Chris White- Overcast Observatory

Sep 23, 2023

So these parts are plastic FDM? No issues with flex etc?

The parts are made with a filament that is Polycarbonate with chopped carbon fiber. We do not use traditional plastic (ABS) as it's not strong enough.

The parts do not flex, sag, etc.

I've worked a lot wit PCCF. It's very strong and prints very clean. You can make mechanical components out of it.

mrflib

Sep 23, 2023

Ok, rather than asking stupid questions I just read all 42 pages of the other thread! It looks really interesting, Bill.

I have just purchased an Ep-160, it's heading off to be remote hosted in Spain but that's managed for me, I do not need to mess about with it. My Ep-130 which is already there is now coming back to me.

I'm extremely interested in the "move your imaging train between telescopes with no stress" part of Lyra rather than rotation (though that's bloody nice to have too).

So at home I have a Ep-130 (stock focuser and EAF - ran out of money!!!), Vixen VC200L and a little Askar ACL200. I have a 2600 with ZWO EFW and OAG which I'd love to be able to just switch between all 3 of these scopes (I have to set up in the garden each night).

I just wanted to check your Lyra system will fit my triple usecase above?

I'd be interested in your tilt solution (Omega, was it?) if that works for the Ep-130 also.

Cheers

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 23, 2023 · Edited: Sep 23, 2023

Ok, rather than asking stupid questions I just read all 42 pages of the other thread! It looks really interesting, Bill.

I have just purchased an Ep-160, it's heading off to be remote hosted in Spain but that's managed for me, I do not need to mess about with it. My Ep-130 which is already there is now coming back to me.

I'm extremely interested in the "move your imaging train between telescopes with no stress" part of Lyra rather than rotation (though that's bloody nice to have too).

So at home I have a Ep-130 (stock focuser and EAF - ran out of money!!!), Vixen VC200L and a little Askar ACL200. I have a 2600 with ZWO EFW and OAG which I'd love to be able to just switch between all 3 of these scopes (I have to set up in the garden each night).

I just wanted to check your Lyra system will fit my triple usecase above?

I'd be interested in your tilt solution (Omega, was it?) if that works for the Ep-130 also.

Cheers

The ZWO EAF in the 2"/50mm model has holes on the back of the device that we can bolt the Lyra to with two of the bolt holes. The pattern they use is not the same as the one found on the QHY and Pegasus devices - but customers have had success with this without any modifications needed to the Lyra.

The ZWO OAG does not have a compatible set of holes we can bolt onto, and if we enlarged the device to accomodate the pattern they use, the Lyra would collide with the helical focuser. A workaround for this could be to have a M54 female thread at the center of the Lyra which a customer could use a 0mm gender changer ring to connect it to the OAG plate ZWO provides with the cameras.

The QHY and Pegasus wheels and OAGs work perfectly with the Lyra as is.

The Omega tilt correction device is still in development, and we completely changed the design about halfway through. We are not sure yet on the ETA for completion of it.

Well Written Helpful

mrflib

Sep 23, 2023

Ok, rather than asking stupid questions I just read all 42 pages of the other thread! It looks really interesting, Bill.

I have just purchased an Ep-160, it's heading off to be remote hosted in Spain but that's managed for me, I do not need to mess about with it. My Ep-130 which is already there is now coming back to me.

I'm extremely interested in the "move your imaging train between telescopes with no stress" part of Lyra rather than rotation (though that's bloody nice to have too).

So at home I have a Ep-130 (stock focuser and EAF - ran out of money!!!), Vixen VC200L and a little Askar ACL200. I have a 2600 with ZWO EFW and OAG which I'd love to be able to just switch between all 3 of these scopes (I have to set up in the garden each night).

I just wanted to check your Lyra system will fit my triple usecase above?

I'd be interested in your tilt solution (Omega, was it?) if that works for the Ep-130 also.

Cheers

The ZWO EAF in the 2"/50mm model has holes on the back of the device that we can bolt the Lyra to with two of the bolt holes. The pattern they use is not the same as the one found on the QHY and Pegasus devices - but customers have had success with this without any modifications needed to the Lyra.

The ZWO OAG does not have a compatible set of holes we can bolt onto, and if we enlarged the device to accomodate the pattern they use, the Lyra would collide with the helical focuser. A workaround for this could be to have a M54 female thread at the center of the Lyra which a customer could use a 0mm gender changer ring to connect it to the OAG plate ZWO provides with the cameras.

The QHY and Pegasus wheels and OAGs work perfectly with the Lyra as is.

The Omega tilt correction device is still in development, and we completely changed the design about halfway through. We are not sure yet on the ETA for completion of it.

Thanks Bill

I don't really want be buying new OAG's and filterwheels if I can help it - it's not the sort of spending we like to do in astronomy, right?

.

I have a 5 position filterwheel, and as this is OSC that is more than enough. The size of the EFW is important for portability (think: air travel). Huge 7 filter wheels are harder to fit in to flight cases which have a max depth allowance of 25cm on UK flights.

I think I would really need to try and make it work with the current OAG and EFW - and if it was not acceptable performance, then look to swap gear out.

It's difficulty for me to envision the problem as I have only seen some random customer shots of the Lyra, but would it not be possible to "jut out" holes on the 3D print to accomdate rather than increase the whole diamter of the Lyra? I am possibily misunderstanding you but as I have not seen the device it's hard to imagine. Excuse my crappy sketch:

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Topic starter

Sep 23, 2023

No problem. The Lyra would bolt to the other side of the OAG. That side is where a user installs the tilt ring from the camera face. The holes that tilt ring bolts into would require a larger diameter Lyra, which would get blocked by the helical focuser. The 4 hole pattern you show in the image can be used by the Lyra (2 of them anyhow) but that's on the filter wheel itself and the opposite side of the OAG. The direct connection to the wheel works fine with the current design. It's the OAG from ZWO that's an issue.

I have one of their OAGs here and I have yet to find a way to make this work with it.

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mrflib

Sep 23, 2023 · Edited: Sep 23, 2023

Ok Bill, I do want to make this work. Perhaps I can just replace the helical focuser if that is the issue. I think I need to wait for your images on the website to see how this all goes together before I make plans. To be fair, snap shots will probably do if you have some (especially agains the ZWO OAG).