lots of "3D" experiments - Forums

Topic starter

Jul 2, 2020

Try number two on this post. I will probably split this up into multiple posts in this thread as I have lots of images to show.

Over the past few weeks I have done a lot of experimenting with ways to represent astrophotos with 3D physical objects. I choose this image to work with:

https://www.astrobin.com/315532/

Partly because it already has a somewhat 3D look to it even in its 2D form (color differences contribute as well as luminescence differences).

Can't say I've found any winners yet, but a few things are still in the works and I will keep trying.

Starting simple, here's a curved acrylic frame with a transparency print (actually 4 stacked together to increase the color saturation and contrast):

Next steps on that one would be to try putting different copies on different surfaces of that curved frame, or split the photo into 3 or layers in photoshop and print each as a transparency to mount on a different surface of the fame. If successful a custom frame with the required number of layers would be ordered from a plastics shop, and the edges of the print trimmed away.

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Elmiko

Jul 2, 2020

Very cool idea Glenn! Nice image too!

Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Jul 2, 2020

Next we have 3D printed lithophanes (you can google it if you don't know). This where the thickness of the semitransparent printed material creates the luminance, and you back-light it.

Great if you want to make photo lampshades or night lights, but I've found (so far anyway) that while the surface is 3D, when you light it up from behind, all the 3D information is lost.

Note that you can put a color on paper or transparency photo behind it to add color, and the best way to do that I am still exploring. To date I have used "clear" PTA plastic but have some recommended for lithophane "cool white" PLA on the way"

I'm using my flats panel as a light source but also have a color laser projector I am experimenting with.

There are lots of different sites and tools for making a 3D lithophane model, based on the luminance data in your image and I have tried quite a few, including curved, etc.

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Nico Carver

Jul 2, 2020

Ooh, I'm very interested in this topic Glenn. Last time I talked to Greg at Wa-chur-ed observatory he wasn't offering backlit transparency prints anymore so lately I've been gearing up to print and construct them at home. I bought some supplies from here: https://photoglow.com/ and plan to print soon on my Canon Pro100 printer. If you don't mind going a bit off-topic, I'd love to know what transparency film you print on, and any tips for printing astrophotography on transparent films.

I am also interested in your 3D printing efforts. I have printed stereoscopic pairs and shown them to people in a stereoscopic viewer. The only problem with that is people who don't have perfect eyesight often can't really see the effect. I wonder if there could be any benefit to mixing transparency with stereoscopic pairs? Might be worth a try!

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Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Jul 2, 2020

Next we have etching a 3D representation of our image in "crystal", which can be lit from below or behind. These can be up to 7"x11"x4" (at least at the vendor I found) but the price goes up really fast.

Their 2D to 3D process is based on Human faces, perhaps using AI, and after a few back and forth emails we agreed to try a test astrophoto in small scale. Bottom line I think is we need our own 3D modeling process and to find a vendor (or tooling) to "etch" it.

Maybe this one would have come out better at a larger scale but I wasn't ready to spend that much on an experiment.

Lighting this, from below, with the flat panel didn't look like much. Bright LEDs directly beneath shining up may help (they sell stands, but I figured I could make one for LOT less, for purposes of experimenting anyway.

I also tried a transparent print on the back (hard to size and line up) and projecting on it with the laser projector.

Again no big wins yet.

Etching on the back surface of acrylic with a CNC or 3D printer with router attachment is another possibility.

Again, creating a good 3D model for the medium would be key.

Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Jul 2, 2020

Another experiment still in works:

I found a site that will make a 3D model from an image, and then you can shop out the print. In color they have a big industrial machines that print in "sandstone", in color, at high res. I ordered one, but there was a technical glitch in transferring the color info for the model to the printer. Several emails have gone back and forth where I try to explain to them, guys (and gals), it's your site that is making the model and transferring it. I don't have the model and didn't make it.

Anyway hopefully they will figure it out and I'll get an example.

Of course if we know how to generate our own 3D models... ;)

Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Jul 2, 2020

So that's an overview anyway.

Comments?

Ideas, Suggestions?

Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Jul 2, 2020

@Nico,

I have a color laser printer and just bought generic transparency "film" for HP color laser printers, as an experiment.

I looked on bayphoto.com and https://www.printique.com/ (was adorama) and didn't see transparencies offered.

They both have acrylic prints but the "print" is either on the front or back and is not transparent.

Also thanks for the links, I will check them out.

Oh I forgot to mention one experiment that hasn't arrived yet:

https://pops.co/

Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Jul 3, 2020

Another thought about a way to do a 2D astroimage to 3D translation would be to do it in VR. There are several 3D sketch/cad/tinker programs and I have an Oculus Rift.

I've been hesitant to dive in with traditional CAD programs and "extrude" things just because of unfamiliarity with the non programmatic CAD programs (I use OpenSCAD for 3D printing, in which you "program" shapes, vs. draw them), but it feels like working in VR and just pushing and tugging with my hands might be more intuitive?

Guess I will do some research and certainly checkout VR programs I already have.

Top google hit on best VR CAD programs:

https://vrtodaymagazine.com/vr-design-apps/

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Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Jul 3, 2020

Wow! I had no idea Photoshop had 3D modeling in it:

https://photoshoptrainingchannel.com/3d-objects-from-photos/

Gary Lopez

Jul 3, 2020

This is so cool, Glenn. I know nearly nothing about this topic, but I find it very intriguing. I will check out the Photoshop tutorial on 3D modeling and see if the approach can be used in our astroimaging.

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Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Nov 26, 2020

Dylan O'Donnell just did a video on some 3D astroimages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9hWiiIsIQ0&ab_channel=DylanO%27Donnell

I'll go look for the astroimaging channel talk he mentioned. I was aware of one Adam, but not of the two of them.

Oh, I had previously bought the book he mentions as well. It's nice.

Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Nov 26, 2020

Here's one by Josh Smith (how I bought my first mount from, by the way):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzSknPquLKI&ab_channel=TheAstroImagingChannel

Still looking for one with Dylan.

Glenn C Newell

Topic starter

Nov 26, 2020

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1WZGWSAEr8&ab_channel=TheAstroImagingChannel