Completely stuck on my next move, could do with some advice - Forums

Topic starter

Jun 14, 2020

Hi everyone,
I've been imaging with my 130pds for some time now,coupled with my 600 (modded) camera its given me a great entry level experience to AP and ive been on the whole happy with the scope.
That being said ive been saving up the last few months and now have a budget of roughly 1k to spend.

I really do like the 130pds its great but theirs something about a newt (that i cant pin point) that i find a chore...its never been pick up and go for me so for that reason ive been extensively looking at refractors.

Im aware that i will lose F/L and in some cases an F stop possibly,but that hasn't seemed to slow me down in my search.
Ive been looking very closely at

WO ZS73 within the FLat73a (which are like rocking horse SH!# atm

Starwave 80ed-R 80mm with 1x flatner (love the look of this but cant see a single video review anywhere, which i find alarming) https://www.altairastro.com/starwave-80ed-r-ed-doublet-refractor-telescope-466-p.asp

RVO Horizon package (rother valley optics brand new refractor 72ed- UK retailer) https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/rvo-horizon-72-ed-doublet-refractor-full-imaging-package.htmlIve racked my brains for weeks on end
- do i really want to change for something that will get me similar results but with wider views at a high cost
-is a refractor what im really after
-no more collimation
-crisp image with sharp lens
-no more diffraction spikes

and then today i thought oh sod it, why not keep the 130pds and invest in a cooled cmos cam!!

AHHHH!! please, please any advice would be welcomed, im really struggling here and dont want to drop 1k on something i may later regret.

one thing i do know is i absolutely love this hobby.

thanks

Dan

Uwe Deutermann

Jun 14, 2020

Hi Dan,

I do really like the Williams Optic scopes (I do have the Z61 which is a wonderful scope) and now a guider scope. I was looking for myself to get the 132, have not decided yet either, but this is how much I like them :-).
BUT … you came up with a good point. Would have loved to see some images to judge, but usually a reflector is not that bad, although I am not a fan of them either, but know here on Astrobin several that have wonderful images with them. Sooo … personally I would go for the camera, MONO for sure with filter wheel! Yes, it is more cumbersome to get an RGB image together, but believe me, you will not regret it! The mono camera then is great for narrow band, which is for me being in a light polluted area a must to have. Everybody loves the ASI1600MM Pro, I do have it too, and it is for that what it does an awesome price compared to similar ones. Yes, it has some problems with bright stars, but those are not that often in the image.
It will be a hard decision for sure … a lot of people love DSLRs for Astrophotography, and if you live in a colder area this might be ok to go with. I started with an unmodded D50 and the results were compared to a dedicated Astro camera really low, but I do live in a very warm area, and unmodded makes a big difference too! Check out Trevor Jones on You Tube, he has some good advices for beginners, and also some other YouTube channels. Hopefully this will help you.
CS
Uwe

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Carastro

Jun 14, 2020 · Edited: Jun 14, 2020

I truly sympathise with your quandry having had several scopes including the SW130PDS, a SWED80 and SW120 refractors and a WOZS71.

I think you are going to have to make your own mind up about the scope, I really loved mine, and on the whole I didn't find collimating too much of a chore until I took it on a trip to an Astro camp and it got badly out of kilter that took me months to get it right again. It was a good job I had my refractors with me (always just in case) or it would have been a wasted trip.

In the end I decided to stick with my refractors, but I did enjoy my time with the 130PDS, but as you say a small refractor will give a bigger FOV.

Going on to cameras, I have no experience with CMOS cameras except for what i have read, I use Mono CCD cameras (Yes I have 2 and sometimes use a dual rig to gather twice as much data at a time).

I must say I do prefer the speed of the WO scope, but with a focal reducer you can can get the Focal ratio down a bit on all scopes.

Anyway, my recommendation to you, if you have got money to spend it to invest in a mono camera and filters, as also recommended by Uwe, I started with a Modified Canon DSLR but was completely blown away when I changed to a Mono camera.

HTH

Carole

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Stefan

Jun 14, 2020 · Edited: Jun 14, 2020

Hi millzey,
In that same situation…

I've opted for a cooled camera. If you're interested: I've done a comparison of my modded Canon 1300D and the ZWO ASI071Pro on the same target. Check out my pictures of the fireworks galaxy, you will see the difference. The cooled dedicated camera delivers more detail with much, much less exposure. And ZWO have not got the fantastic 294MC which would fit your budget. But: you'll basically get the same pictures (same framing) as before, just with more color and better resolution.

Refractors are great. You'll have much finer stars and the 400mm FL will open up a range of new targets for you. Your 600D will do just fine.

I am not making it easier for you: another approach may be: a lense like the Samyang 135mm F/2. Please check out what 'Gabriel R. Santos' or 'Carastro' do with that (search them). It is cheap, so if you're lucky, you'll get it TOGETHER WITH a cooled ZWO ASI183MC Pro within your budget. This is another level and a range of new possibilities, too.

Clear Skies to you

Stefan

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Carastro

Jun 14, 2020

Stefan:
Please check out what 'Gabriel R. Santos' or 'Carastro' do with that (search them). It is cheap, so if you're lucky, you'll get it TOGETHER WITH a cooled ZWO ASI183MC Pro within your budget. This is another level and a range of new possibilities, too.

Yes, I wasn't going to confused the issue with mentioning that, this is a recent purchase of mine and I am having a ball with it and my cooled mono camera and EFW.

Carole

millzey13

Topic starter

Jun 14, 2020

Thank you all for your input, I made this post very early this morning and didnt have any replies so have been racking my brains all day again today

I'm thinking I'm going to go down the 80ed-r route with the 0.8x flatner. Brings it to f5.6 at roughly 440mm.

I know the cam is an upgrade I will want and where I have the spare change for either atm I feel I really dont want to image with the newt for some bizarre reason so will grab the frac and then possibly the cam in a few months time.

The 130 is a cracking scope but for some reason I've just fallen out of love with using it and it's so bulky I really dont want a nice cooled cam hanging out the top of it. This probably sounds so petty but I do like my gear to look aesthetically good as well and the 130pds with all the gear on just doesnt do that for me .

I've managed to find a group today that has a lot of users for the 80edr and its praises are sung very highly which is a plus point.

Unless I change mily mind when I wake up tomorrow ( which can happen) then that's what I'll do.

Thanks again

Carastro

Jun 15, 2020

I think you didn't get replies earlier as Astrobin was in "Read Only Mode" when I tried to reply to you earlier.

Good luck anyway.

Carole

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millzey13

Topic starter

Jun 15, 2020

Carastro:
I think you didn't get replies earlier as Astrobin was in "Read Only Mode" when I tried to reply to you earlier.Good luck anyway.

Carole

I thought it was a bit strange that all of a sudden as I was about to dose off I had this influx of messages

I've ordered the starwave 80ED-R V2 with the rack and pinion focusser and fpl 53 glass so fingers crossed everything goes ok.

Thanks again for all the help.

dkamen

Jun 15, 2020

Stefan:
Hi millzey,In that same situation...

I've opted for a cooled camera. If you're interested: I've done a comparison of my modded Canon 1300D and the ZWO ASI071Pro on the same target. Check out my pictures of the fireworks galaxy, you will see the difference. The cooled dedicated camera delivers more detail with much, much less exposure. And ZWO have not got the fantastic 294MC which would fit your budget. But: you'll basically get the same pictures (same framing) as before, just with more color and better resolution.

Refractors are great. You'll have much finer stars and the 400mm FL will open up a range of new targets for you. Your 600D will do just fine.

I am not making it easier for you: another approach may be: a lense like the Samyang 135mm F/2. Please check out what 'Gabriel R. Santos' or 'Carastro' do with that (search them). It is cheap, so if you're lucky, you'll get it TOGETHER WITH a cooled ZWO ASI183MC Pro within your budget. This is another level and a range of new possibilities, too.

Clear Skies to you

Stefan

Hi Stefan,

Somewhat off-topic I would like to note the difference in acquisition time with the ASI071 vs your Rebel is probably because of quantum efficiency. The ASI has peak QE at 85% for blue, 90% for red and `100% for green. Meaning almost 9 out of every `10 photons that reach the sensor get captured. On the contrary, the Rebel peaks at 20-40% QE, even if it's modified (modification does not change the sensor's QE, it changes only how much red is reaching it). Cooling helps in producing a cleaner result but has not effect on detail as such.

Cheers,
D.

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