I have plenty of room for a small observatory in my backyard but have been frustrated at every angle by the HOA!! My wife in annoyance said "they've let people build raised gardens, trellises and benches but not a little observatory. That's crazy! Maybe you should change your thinking and put it in the ground with just a flat roof at grade level!@!" I, of course, said that's crazy, I wouldn't know where to begin and I've never heard of such a thing. But….I got thinking, with planning why couldn't I construct a cinder block structure underground with a split fold open roof. I pondered some design issues but think it could be done. My wife (wiser than I) said I should talk to my "stargazer friends" and see what they think. So ….. what do people think stupid idea, interesting idea, what do you foresee as problems?? Thanks for any input. If there is none I probably take the hint and not persue the idea. Thanks for your time and thoughts.
Frustration with Observatory and HOA
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Seems reasonable to me, other than the falling into it in the middle of the night…..: ) It might be a bit limiting in how far past zenith you can go. Are you able to have the roof a couple feet above ground level? If so, the roof could be removable panels and the above ground sides set to fold down to give you more range. My observatory is above ground, but with that type of setup. The OTA (with dew shield) doesn’t extend beyond the roof line for maximum wind protection, but if i need to chase a target past about 40 deg, I can fold down the top section of any side. The multi paneled roof also lets me open up a single “slot” to image through for even more wind protection. Just make sure the roof panels are oriented east/west.
Cheers,
Scott
Cheers,
Scott
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An interesting idea. One consideration, water. I don’t know where you are located but here we’ve had 3 inches of rain in the first week of July. You wouldn’t want your gear set up in a “pond”. ;-)
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I could see several limitations, some of which have been mentioned - the amount of sky in view for one, plus making sure you install drain tile and possibly a sump pump depending on depth and water table.
Additional one - from a safety standpoint, this is similar to a swimming pool. No, you don't have a drowning risk, but you do have a big open hole in the ground at night. The city might require you to fence it in as they would a swimming pool. That would very likely require HOA approval as well.
Additional one - from a safety standpoint, this is similar to a swimming pool. No, you don't have a drowning risk, but you do have a big open hole in the ground at night. The city might require you to fence it in as they would a swimming pool. That would very likely require HOA approval as well.
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I have several ideas, first, sell the house controlled by a bunch of authoritarian busy bodies and move somewhere darker and more free. I happen to have a religious level of hate for HOA’s.
Ask to build a garden shed and simply make the roof roll off. If you have a good fence, build a short storage box and park your scope horizontal. My "observatory" is only 5’3" tall but 8’x6’. It’s lower than my 6’ fence so invisible. My roof just flips off in 2 parts like a box, nice and simple.
If nothing else works, build a simple concrete block pier and buy a cover. Leave the mount outside on the pier, aligned and ready to go and carry the scope in every morning. And don’t ask permission to put 2 concrete blocks on the ground. That would be silly.
Ask to build a garden shed and simply make the roof roll off. If you have a good fence, build a short storage box and park your scope horizontal. My "observatory" is only 5’3" tall but 8’x6’. It’s lower than my 6’ fence so invisible. My roof just flips off in 2 parts like a box, nice and simple.
If nothing else works, build a simple concrete block pier and buy a cover. Leave the mount outside on the pier, aligned and ready to go and carry the scope in every morning. And don’t ask permission to put 2 concrete blocks on the ground. That would be silly.
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I had the same issue, and my HOA did approve a small shed that has a roof that opens, and looks like a backyard shed. Would that be a good option for you? Stoltzfus sheds built mine. I like Joe's idea above too!! To build a pier and put a 360 cover on the rig!
Joe Linington:
I have several ideas, first, sell the house controlled by a bunch of authoritarian busy bodies and move somewhere darker and more free. I happen to have a religious level of hate for HOA’s.
Ask to build a garden shed and simply make the roof roll off. If you have a good fence, build a short storage box and park your scope horizontal. My "observatory" is only 5’3" tall but 8’x6’. It’s lower than my 6’ fence so invisible. My roof just flips off in 2 parts like a box, nice and simple.
If nothing else works, build a simple concrete block pier and buy a cover. Leave the mount outside on the pier, aligned and ready to go and carry the scope in every morning. And don’t ask permission to put 2 concrete blocks on the ground. That would be silly.
I would suggest checking the HOA rules - mine explicitly prohibits sheds of any kind. I like the pier idea better. It is something I have considered doing since it is less expensive and less of a problem if you sell the property later.
I guess since Joe shared his perspective on HOAs, that allows me to share mine. HOAs exist to maintain common areas and preserve property values. In most cases, they are not "authoritarian busy bodies" but people volunteering their time to do a job nobody wants to do and trying to enforce rules all had agreed to in some uniform way. That is true in my case.
Most people buy properties with HOAs because they are desirable and well maintained areas. You are given the HOA rules before you buy. If you don't like them, there is always the option to buy a home somewhere else.
Thanks for all the comments. Some additional info, My yard is fenced, I live in the Mojave desert and rain, although intense during short thunderstorms, is very low. I have discussed small sheds etc with HOA ad nausium and no go is the answer they give. As for view/horizon, I have enough room to make the obersvatory much wider and longer than I need thus eliminating horizon problems and minimizing water impacts. A sump pump would be incorporated to handle any in leakage during a heavy thunderstorm. The roof on a larger design may be a support challenge. I'm trying to figure what other issues I may run into? Cost is a consideration but digging the hole can be done by a friend of mine and laying the cinder block block walls I can do. Cement is expensive and a bigger than needed observatory adds to the cost but I can handle. The roof design and support is a whole other issue and I have no good designs at this point. Any ideas?
As to HOA's a general, I hate them and find them irrational, arbitrary and inconsistent! My wife loves them. they keep neighborhood orderly and clean, they maintain common areas and they set consistent rules for everyone! Although certainly not on the merits I lose!! Thus a bunker like observatory?!?!
As to HOA's a general, I hate them and find them irrational, arbitrary and inconsistent! My wife loves them. they keep neighborhood orderly and clean, they maintain common areas and they set consistent rules for everyone! Although certainly not on the merits I lose!! Thus a bunker like observatory?!?!
If your HOA disapproves of a "shed", they are definitely not going to allow any excavation. Other than that, not sure what the house height and tree situation is in your area, but going lower means limiting FOV.
That sux! I'm planning to build one in my backyard and I have concerns about dealing with the HOA as well. My HOA does allow sheds with max square footage of 40'.. smaller than I want but I figure my back up plan would just be a "shed" with a roll off roof.
What kind of structures does your HOA allow? Could you do a gazebo? If so, then maybe a gazebo with a roof that opens.
What kind of structures does your HOA allow? Could you do a gazebo? If so, then maybe a gazebo with a roof that opens.
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James:
That sux! I'm planning to build one in my backyard and I have concerns about dealing with the HOA as well. My HOA does allow sheds with max square footage of 40'.. smaller than I want but I figure my back up plan would just be a "shed" with a roll off roof.
What kind of structures does your HOA allow? Could you do a gazebo? If so, then maybe a gazebo with a roof that opens.
That's tiny, my 6x8 box would violate that. I would totally build a roll off out house style of shed (under 40sq') and make sure to place a black crescent moon and a "Men" sign on the door. Heck, I'd likely build it out of reclaimed pallets just to get the proper redneck look.
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/674557-my-take-on-the-roll-off-shed-observatory/
https://toiletology.com/resources/history/history-of-the-outhouse/
All kidding aside it is a viable option if you are that size limited.
Engaging
When the topic was a recessed observatory, I thought about some videos I saw on YouTube from Pier Tech. They have hydraulically lifting piers that rise up to get over obstructions.
I was just on their website and they have a mobile trailer observatory that they specifically say gets around some HOA rules that prohibit fixed structures. Maybe you'll find the idea interesting or food for thought.
http://piertechinc.com/mobile-observatories/star-traveler-xl/
If you go with a simple concrete pier in the backyard and the HOA might take issue with it, just set a birdbath on top during the day.
Note, I have no connection with them and my only knowledge of them is two minutes of YouTube videos. So caveat emptor.
I was just on their website and they have a mobile trailer observatory that they specifically say gets around some HOA rules that prohibit fixed structures. Maybe you'll find the idea interesting or food for thought.
http://piertechinc.com/mobile-observatories/star-traveler-xl/
If you go with a simple concrete pier in the backyard and the HOA might take issue with it, just set a birdbath on top during the day.
Note, I have no connection with them and my only knowledge of them is two minutes of YouTube videos. So caveat emptor.
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I empathize with your pain. How visible is your backyard to others? Adding to the pier idea, I have seen DIY projects on Cloudynights where people have a pier in the ground and a small box that encloses the scope from the bottom of the pier upward during the day to protect it. It honestly looks like an extra large birdhouse or something. I hope you can reach a compromise with them somehow.
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I’ve had the same issue with my HOA. My neighbor next door literally has an HOA approved 12’x14’ shed, and they rejected my design for an equivalent from Stoltzfus (which I pursued after viewing @gmadkat ’s). I pointed out the obvious…that my neighbor’s shed was approved, but no dice. It’s clear there’s no path forward…they will object to any accommodation I propose. I decided to apply the money that would have gone to a shed to remote hosting in New Mexico instead. I may build a permanent pier in my back yard as well, but first I will remote a scope.
I agree that HOA rules can be problematic when building an observatory. In my case, I wanted to buy a used white Skyshed POD and install it in my Tucson, Arizona, backyard. The location could not be seen from the street but could be seen by anyone walking in the "common area," where there is a trail leading into a county park. But the application was no go because of the color. White was not acceptable. But they did approve a new POD (at 5x the cost) in Desert Tan. The committee was also concerned about any noise the observatory would create, but I assured them it would be less than the noise created by having my imaging setup in the driveway (i.e., very little noise). I also sought the approval of my neighbors, that could see and possibly hear the observatory activities.
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Jeff Ridder:
I’ve had the same issue with my HOA. My neighbor next door literally has an HOA approved 12’x14’ shed, and they rejected my design for an equivalent from Stoltzfus (which I pursued after viewing @gmadkat ’s). I pointed out the obvious…that my neighbor’s shed was approved, but no dice.
If your HOA has approved a shed for someone else but hasn't for you, I think you could make a case that the HOA is applying rules in a non uniform manner. Consult a lawyer and send a lawyer's note to the HOA. This will cost a few hundred dollars, but would send a message to the HOA that you are serious and will not tolerate arbitrariness in application of rules. As much as homeowners do not want to run afoul of an HOA, so too do HOA officers not want to be sued by homeowners, especially if a legal letter tells them that they are afoul of the law.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions! I have some new ideas for approaching HOA based on your comments. I'l keep you updated. Tom.
I built a split roof observatory and there is no reason it could not have been sunk into the ground if I didn't pivot the roof halfway down the side wall. If I had to build this again I would use heavy duty drawer slides rather than hinges. Much easier on the actuators and faster. With the drawer slides you could probably have the exposed part of the structure less than 1 foot above grade depending on the roof slope.
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Buy new land?
Weldon CA, $33,000 for 39 Acres!
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Lena-Ln-Weldon-CA-93283/2058276937_zpid/
Weldon CA, $33,000 for 39 Acres!
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Lena-Ln-Weldon-CA-93283/2058276937_zpid/
dbm
Deleted by me…
Moving is always an option. Love that constitution.
I have plenty of room for a small observatory in my backyard but have been frustrated at every angle by the HOA!! My wife in annoyance said "they've let people build raised gardens, trellises and benches but not a little observatory. That's crazy! Maybe you should change your thinking and put it in the ground with just a flat roof at grade level!@!" I, of course, said that's crazy, I wouldn't know where to begin and I've never heard of such a thing. But....I got thinking, with planning why couldn't I construct a cinder block structure underground with a split fold open roof. I pondered some design issues but think it could be done. My wife (wiser than I) said I should talk to my "stargazer friends" and see what they think. So ..... what do people think stupid idea, interesting idea, what do you foresee as problems?? Thanks for any input. If there is none I probably take the hint and not persue the idea. Thanks for your time and thoughts.
If you do explore the below ground option, I am full of knowledge here. Not specifically on underground observatories, but underground precast concrete structures that must be watertight.
I would personally stay away from a block wall of any type in this application. Have a precast (manufactured at a plant and delivered ready to set in the hole) or pour-in-place. I can also recommend coatings to apply to the outside of the wall to be sure no water intrusion occurs through the concrete itself (not usually needed but a few dollars now can prevent a lot of headache later). You would likely want to raise the walls of the structure above finished grade at least six inches if not twelve. Reach out if you have any questions. This is what I do for work everyday.
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