Really bad stars on 72ED with ASI533MC Pro

22 replies1.4k views
Craig Dixon avatar
I’ve been having some issues with my stars when shooting through my Skywatcher 72ED, Stella Mira field flattener and ASI533MC Pro:

Screenshot_2023-07-03_at_15.30.10.png 

Screenshot_2023-07-03_at_15.30.20.png

Here is a heavily zoomed frame of the Cygnus wall from the other night (so not astronomically dark). This was shot from my EQ6-R Pro on a pier with near-perfect polar alignment. Tracking was at about 0.5 consistently.

I realised that the field flattener fits into the draw tube on the scope and is secured with just two grub screws so might be causing some tilt. I’ve ordered an adapter from FLO which will allow me to screw the Flattener in to eliminate this possibility.

Feedback on some of my previous images has often mentioned a misalignment of the RGB channels and a possible collimation issue. Does this look like tilt, collimation, or something else? I’m not sure where to start with it.
Well Written Engaging
andrea tasselli avatar
No image.
Brian Puhl avatar
Looks like some pretty substantial tilt to me.
David Goldstein avatar
One thing that might help you find out if it's the field flattener causing it is to rotate your flattener 180° and see what happens.
Well Written Concise
Alan Brunelle avatar
The aberration seems consistent by degree and rotation, so it could be tilt or misaligned color channels.  It would be good to ensure what of those two issues it is.  You can check misaligned channels by blinking the individual registered color channel frames.  Or do like @David Goldstein suggests for the other.

And hope it is not some defect in your optics.
andrea tasselli avatar
Me thinks it is tilt if the image shown is the full field covered by the 533. As comparison this the equivalent field covered on my ED72 (taken with a Nikon D5100 so 4.78 um pixels):

As can be seen the field should show little field curvature and lateral color. No FF used.
Rafael Amarins avatar
There is no way to get a clue on what the issue is witout a full image. Some mishaped stars means nothing. I mean it could be backspacing, tilt, collimation or tracking. 
We need a full resolution image. 

Keep in mind that if the space from the sensor to the field flattener is incorrect (too close or too far) you will end up having mishaped stars even with a small sensor like the 533

Use this as a guider. It is usually spacing and sometimes a bit o tilt. 
https://cdn.nightskypix.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/setting-the-proper-distance-between-the-flattener-and-the-camera-sensor.jpg
Craig Dixon avatar
Light_NGC7000_300.0s_Bin1_20230702-003336_0020.jpg

Thanks guys. Here's an outstretched individual sub (Saved as jpeg due to file upload size limit here)
andrea tasselli avatar
As I anticipated in my earlier replay it is tilt, IMO. You shouldn't see elongated stars nor LCA at the center of the field (see my own for reference). In fact you should only see moderate elongations at the corners and that would be it. Try without any flattener to see if the issue goes away or changes.
Nick Axaris avatar
I had one of these and it does suffer from focus tilt
Great scope garbage focuser
Craig Dixon avatar
Thanks guys.

I can purchase one of these to replace the ring that holds the flattener in with just two grub screws so I'm hoping that this removes the tilt. The only problem is I won't be able to rotate the camera at all for framing. ZWO are supposed to be releasing a camera rotator later this year, which I'll definitely be purchasing but there is no release date yet.
Craig Dixon avatar
I've found the tilt analyser in SIRIL but I'm not sure what I'm looking at and can't find any tutorials. Anyone know what any of this means?

Screenshot 2023-07-05 at 13.32.47.png
andrea tasselli avatar
Craig Dixon:
I've found the tilt analyser in SIRIL but I'm not sure what I'm looking at and can't find any tutorials. Anyone know what any of this means?

Screenshot 2023-07-05 at 13.32.47.png

Wasting your time there. You need to test it w/out the FF to start with...
Dave Rust avatar
I experienced a very similar issue recently. I was getting slightly streaked stars like this (as opposed to oval stars from my reflector's poor collimation).  A clue was that the direction of the streaks were mostly unchanged across the field of view.

But I don't think I was getting the red/blue chroma shift, so maybe my problem is unrelated. 

Nevertheless, here's a summary of my experience—

I stopped a run of subs to investigate, re-homed the scope, and double-checked polar alignment (with iPolar).  The scope had indeed shifted...and not by very much. The "ball" was still on the crosshairs, but shifted to the left about half way. It was re-centered and the subsequent set of subs came out perfectly.

This happens occasionally with my rig. The tripod sits on a dolly, so there's lots of opportunity for something to move after initial PA. Temperature changes, slight weight shift, and tension release can be the culprits. This is despite a nicely balanced system!

The ultimate solution, of course, is a pier. But I would probably run in to it with the car, being in the middle of my driveway and all.

BTW. this is one reason why I would avoid using a strain wave mount without a counterweight on a portable tripod. Shifting forces are significant. Check out an EDGEHD 14" moving about at https://www.highpointscientific.com/ioptron-hem27ec-hybrid-equatorial-mount-head-with-ipolar-and-case-h274a  I don't see the tripod move, but, man, that's a lot of weight shifting!
Helpful Respectful Engaging Supportive
Craig Dixon avatar
This data was shot on an EQ6-R Pro mount on a permanent pier that was perfectly polar aligned
Rafael Amarins avatar
Craig Dixon:
Light_NGC7000_300.0s_Bin1_20230702-003336_0020.jpg

Thanks guys. Here's an outstretched individual sub (Saved as jpeg due to file upload size limit here)

To me that seems to be tilt. It doesn't look like backspacing otherwise all corners would have equally stretch stars which is not the case. The upper left corner seems to be the worse. I vote for tilt. 
I hope you can fix it.
Álvaro Méndez avatar
I think it might be sensor tilt. It is pretty common on these ASI cameras, I suffer from it too unfortunately. They should have a better quality control because a tilted sensor ruins everything for us, nonetheless they do not care at all.
Craig Dixon avatar
Quick update here. I purchased and fitted an adapter ring that allows me to attach the FF to the focuser tube via a screw thread rather than via two grub screws in an attempt to reduce/eliminate tilt. Attached is a single auto-stretched sub converted to jpeg. I think the stars look much better. What do we think?

Damien Galanaud avatar
It looks significantly better with probably still a little bit of tilt. I owned the 72ED which was in fact my first refractor. One issue it has that can significantly contribute to the tilt issue is that the focuser tends to become loose over time, especially if you put in the back end heavy equipment such as flatteners and astro cameras. You can check this by trying to move the draw tube up and down. If you have this issue, you can find tutorials online explaining how to tighten it back.
Helpful Concise
Craig Dixon avatar
Will have a look at the focussed this week, although it does seem pretty solid
TiffsAndAstro avatar
Damien Galanaud:
It looks significantly better with probably still a little bit of tilt. I owned the 72ED which was in fact my first refractor. One issue it has that can significantly contribute to the tilt issue is that the focuser tends to become loose over time, especially if you put in the back end heavy equipment such as flatteners and astro cameras. You can check this by trying to move the draw tube up and down. If you have this issue, you can find tutorials online explaining how to tighten it back.


struggling to find any such guides as I think I have a very similar issue
Dheeraj Reddy avatar
Damien Galanaud:
It looks significantly better with probably still a little bit of tilt. I owned the 72ED which was in fact my first refractor. One issue it has that can significantly contribute to the tilt issue is that the focuser tends to become loose over time, especially if you put in the back end heavy equipment such as flatteners and astro cameras. You can check this by trying to move the draw tube up and down. If you have this issue, you can find tutorials online explaining how to tighten it back.

*1 Thank you i was looking for it
Rafael Amarins avatar
Looking at the last image the spacing issue was resolved. Now there is either collimation or tilt.
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