WBPP process workflow

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rugbyrene avatar
Hi all,

Returning to the hobby after a couple of years out and of course I've forgotten everything I learnt about PI.  I see that WBPP has come on since I last used it.  My question relates when SubFrame Selector should be used in the Processing Workflow.  I've read where some use it after Blink but before WBPP and others use it after debayering in WBPP the continue once they have removed the bad subs.

1) So what is the correct/preferred way.

2) If you use SFS after debayering how do you pick up the WBPP process part way through (i.e. from registration). I tried by unchecking the processes in the Pipeline but it just went back to Calibrating.

Cheers in advance for any help.

Rene
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Sean van Drogen avatar
Hi Rene,

Stolen from the PI forum:
It depends on what criteria you adopt when you exclude a frame. SS is pretty obvious: it allows you to define your arbitrary criteria and construct a threshold to exclude the frames. The purpose of the minimum weight threshold in WBPP is different; it's about excluding frames with very low weight from being processed to not waste time on something that, in the end, will not significantly contribute to the final integrated master.
SS was essentially superseded by the PSFSW, PSFSNR, and PSF Scale SNR weighting methods, so unless you have specific needs that require the usage of SS, one of the three methods will most probably be the right one for you.


With WBPP I no longer use SFS, just blink to dump obviously bad frames.
Jared Willson avatar
I have, in the past, used subframe selector after blinking but before pre-processing. It lets me set a minimum threshold for FWHM (or whatever value(s) you think appropriate). However, the trend is not to use subframe selector at all now that WBPP incorporates things like "PSF Signal Weight" for subframe weighting and the ability to set a minimum weight in the integration section of WBPP.  The weighting is intended to account for both SNR from air mass and passing clouds/haze as well as tracking/focus accuracy and give you the best possible balance of resolution and SNR in your final image stack. The fact that you can set a minimum threshold for image quality (as determined by PSF signal weight) will let you set that cutoff you would otherwise set in subframe selector and thus save some processing time. 

I would recommend you try it yourself to see whether it really gives the best possible balance given your telescope, your sky conditions, and your data. In my case, I found it did.  I could not get a better result setting minimum thresholds in subframe selector for FWHM and Eccentricity than I got using WBPP alone. I could get sharper results, but I could not get a better compromise of sharpness and image depth. 

End result? I now just skip subframe selector entirely and trust that the PSF signal weight will do the job better than I can manually. If you don't like the balance created by PSF signal weight, there are lots of other options to choose from as well, including the ability for you to set your own weighting parameters based on FWHM, eccentricity, and various other factors including a pedestal value if you want all frames to get at least a certain minimum weight. Personally, with my scope and my data, I have not been able to beat the default values of PSF Signal Weight. 

Try a stack doing SFS manually yourself after blinking, and then skipping the step and just trusting the PSF signal weight. See which is better in terms of sharpness and SNR. Then you can make the call yourself as to whether SFS is actually helpful. I would argue it isn't any more–at least not with my data on most targets. I still use it sometimes when processing things like globular clusters where I really want to de-emphasize SNR and look almost exclusively at FWHM/Eccentricity, but that's about it. For everything else, I just trust WBPP alone.
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Jim Raskett avatar
Hello Rene,

I follow along with a similar workflow as @Sean van Drogen and @Jared Willson in that I blink and then use WBPP to manage subframe weighing with psf signal weight.
WBPP has come a long way!

Jim
Dustin Gazz avatar
If you have debayered calibrated frames, you could just use the Star Align process to register the frames then Local Normalization process then Image integration.

I used to do all the steps manually in PI until I figured out the Keyword Grouping and folder structure process. Now, with all my files in the properly named folders, after choosing the best lights with Blink, I enter the Keyword, click the Directory button to load everything in WBPP, select a cosmetic correction template and click Run.
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rugbyrene avatar
Dustin Gazz:
If you have debayered calibrated frames, you could just use the Star Align process to register the frames then Local Normalization process then Image integration.

I used to do all the steps manually in PI until I figured out the Keyword Grouping and folder structure process. Now, with all my files in the properly named folders, after choosing the best lights with Blink, I enter the Keyword, click the Directory button to load everything in WBPP, select a cosmetic correction template and click Run.

That’s what =Apple-tab-span ‘lol probably do but I’d still like to incorporate SFS to weed out the bad files that I didn’t pick-up with Blink.
Dustin Gazz avatar
Dustin Gazz:
If you have debayered calibrated frames, you could just use the Star Align process to register the frames then Local Normalization process then Image integration.

I used to do all the steps manually in PI until I figured out the Keyword Grouping and folder structure process. Now, with all my files in the properly named folders, after choosing the best lights with Blink, I enter the Keyword, click the Directory button to load everything in WBPP, select a cosmetic correction template and click Run.

That’s what =Apple-tab-span ‘lol probably do but I’d still like to incorporate SFS to weed out the bad files that I didn’t pick-up with Blink.

I've never heard of SFS, but this thread has piqued my interest in it for sure. What measurements do you typically use?
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Doug Summers avatar
The WBPP authors/contributors have somewhat muddied the waters and gone backward in regards to visualized metrics.   Many now say that PSF signal weight eliminates the need for SFS, but others (myself included) disagree.   There was a thread on the PI forum about this, and the PI staff seemed to agree that SFS needed to be accommodated in the WBPP flow.  That said, I know of one very well known contributor who I communicated with that is forceful in his opinion that WBPP should not allow for a SFS viewpoint in the process.    So, although it was stated that WBPP improvements for SFS (and other similar issues) are forthcoming by one staff member, it remains to be seen if this will actually happen.

See the post below for additional details, noting that there's at least one poster who created a 3rd party excel worksheet to mine the WBPP log and recreate the metrics graphs that SFS does.    I've played with (and modified) the spreadsheet and it's helpful, but it does require you to run through WBPP to at least registration before running the excel sheet on the log because the point where measurements are finalized doesn't happen until the start of registration (why they did that is unknown...but it's annoying!).   At least you get a chance to see the measurements visualized in the graphs.

What I'll say about SFS graphs is that seeing how the stack of subs hangs together "AS A SET" is sometimes important.   In my case, I've run many hundreds of subs through WBPP just to see that I didn't quite know where to set the minimum threshold (and then needed to dump some subs) and set a better threshold value, then rerun WBPP.   Wasteful.   Users should absolutely be able to see measurement results *before* committing to long processing (regardless of whether you "trust" PSF signal weight or not).  It's like not blinking and just trusting PSF signal weight and WBPP.    Does anyone think that's a good idea??

Here's the post:

https://pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?threads/wbpp-weighting-results.18880/#post-122435
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