Next Telescope/Camera Upgrade for My Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer - Forums

Topic starter

Jun 6, 2023

Hi all,

I have now determined that I am not quite ready to upgrade my mount just yet unfortunately.

Due to this, I am now thinking about potentially either upgrading my telescope or camera that would be a good fit for my Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer.

At the moment, I have a Radian 61 which weighs just over 4kgs with everything setup. Even though it is nearly pushing my Star Adventurer to it's limits, I am still getting very good results. With a telescope upgrade, I am hoping to reduce the overall weight of my setup whilst being able to maintain good performance from my Star Adventurer.

FIn terms of telescopes, I am looking at either the Askar FRA400 f/5.6 or the Askar 65PHQ as my replacement for my Radian 61. My main imaging camera is an astro-modified Canon 6D that I bought second-hand, but I also sometimes use my other cameras for other deep sky objects that don't really contain much h-alpha signal. I am also open to other brands provided that they are suitable for my Star Adventurer.

I am also considering keeping my Radian 61 for my main rig for the moment, but instead upgrading the camera from my 6Da to something like the ZWO ASI2600MC Pro or ZWO ASI533MC Pro. I quite like those two cameras as they give excellent results. I did originally consider something like the ZWO ASI294MC Pro or the ZWO ASI183MC Pro, but I have since ruled them out as whilst they are excellent cameras, I have read on forums that people eventually upgrade them to something bigger.

My preference is towards the ZWO ASI2600MC Pro because I like the rectangular framing and to also save upgrading my camera again in the future, but I also don't mind the square aspect ratio on the 533MC Pro. At the same time, I am worried that if I do get the 533MC Pro, I will eventually want to upgrade my camera to something like the 2600MC Pro. Monochrome cameras with filters are definitely not optional for me unfortunately, as they are way out of my budget even though monochrome imaging does tend to produce better results once you get enough integration time with the filters.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and opinions.

Zak

andrea tasselli

Frequent contributor

Jun 6, 2023

Even with the largest of the proposed scopes you only get a 37% increase in light gathering capabilities, which may no be worth the candle to be honest. If I were you I'd stick a 300mm f/4 lens on top of that mount and be done with it but that's me. Switching to a Astro camera does however bring substantial benefits especially down the read when you'll be able to afford larger scopes and mounts. If looking into wider fields and don't mind the processing time then, cost being not a factor, ASI2600MC would be the way to go. If you don't care that much for larger vistas then the 533MC would be a more efficient camera.

Helpful

Joe Linington

Jun 6, 2023

The 533 is the same pixels as the IMX571 (2600MC), just less than 1/3 of them. I would buy the 2600 or one of it's variants. The price difference is less than double in some cases for 3x more of a good thing. Some of the scopes you list are nice but are they different enough from your current Radian 61 to spend that much money on? When you decide on a new mount, then think of a new scope.

Helpful Concise

Dave Ek

Jun 6, 2023

I have the 533MC and MM Pro cameras and really like them. The drawback is definitely the sensor size, but the silver lining to that cloud is that the sensor isn’t large enough to pick up the aberrations that can be present around the edges of the optical FOV. And I know that the square sensor format puts a lot of folks off, but I like it because it gives me more flexibility when I rotate (manually) to get the framing I want. With things hanging off-axis like focus motors and filter wheels, it helps to have that flexibility when balancing on the a-axis.

All that being said, I wouldn’t mind having a mono 2600. But it’s pricey compared to the 533.

Well Written Helpful Insightful Concise Engaging

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 6, 2023

andrea tasselli:
Even with the largest of the proposed scopes you only get a 37% increase in light gathering capabilities, which may no be worth the candle to be honest. If I were you I'd stick a 300mm f/4 lens on top of that mount and be done with it but that's me. Switching to a Astro camera does however bring substantial benefits especially down the read when you'll be able to afford larger scopes and mounts. If looking into wider fields and don't mind the processing time then, cost being not a factor, ASI2600MC would be the way to go. If you don't care that much for larger vistas then the 533MC would be a more efficient camera.

I didn't even think about the light gathering capabilities of the new telescopes tbh, my Radian 61 is f/4.5 while the Askar FRA 400 is f/5.6 and the Askar 65PHQ is f/6.4, unless I am thinking in the wrong way?

Yes I agree, if I can somehow budget the ZWO ASI2600MC Pro, I would definitely try and get it over the ZWO ASI533MC Pro to save on upgrading costs and put that money I save on not getting the ZWO ASI533MC Pro towards a new mount and eventually a new telescope.

I do have a Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM that I use quite frequently for astrophotography, and it's really good! I am very happy with the results that I am getting with it. I have shot the Pleiades, Orion Nebula, Carina Nebula, Omega Centauri and the Dark Doodad Nebula with it, all very sharp and it performs very well wide open at f/5.6. I sometimes have to shoot 90 sec exposures depending on PA, but I can sometimes shoot 2 minute exposures with minimal trailing.

I do prefer the rectangular framing of the 2600MC Pro over the square framing of the 533MC Pro, but from what I have read it is better in other ways than the 2600MC Pro and vice versa, plus I can shoot some targets that I am interested in even though it might be under-sampled.

It might be that I look into upgrading to a dedicated astrophotography camera first over a new telescope.

Zak

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

Joe Linington:
The 533 is the same pixels as the IMX571 (2600MC), just less than 1/3 of them. I would buy the 2600 or one of it's variants. The price difference is less than double in some cases for 3x more of a good thing. Some of the scopes you list are nice but are they different enough from your current Radian 61 to spend that much money on? When you decide on a new mount, then think of a new scope.

I agree, the money I spend on the ZWO ASI2600MC Pro will save me extra in the long run and will allow me to upgrade my mount and then eventually a new telescope.

Both cameras are really good from what I have seen, but I think I might go for the 2600MC Pro instead of the 533MC Pro. Not too sure just yet but that's what I'm starting to lean more towards, plus I can use either camera with my Radian 61 and also some of my camera lenses such as the Samyang 135mm f/2.

The only thing I am worried about with the 2600MC Pro is the potential for oil leaks even though ZWO have stated that they have fixed the issue now, but I have also now seen that the fans on some ZWO cameras can cause vibrations which then causes stars to trail. It shouldn't really be much of an issue compared to the oil leaks, but I will see how people fix them and then make a decision from there.

Zak

Joe Linington

Jun 7, 2023

There are many companies making an IMX571. Many are cheaper than the ASI. Unless you have an ASIAir then there is no need for a ZWO version.

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

Dave Ek:
I have the 533MC and MM Pro cameras and really like them. The drawback is definitely the sensor size, but the silver lining to that cloud is that the sensor isn’t large enough to pick up the aberrations that can be present around the edges of the optical FOV. And I know that the square sensor format puts a lot of folks off, but I like it because it gives me more flexibility when I rotate (manually) to get the framing I want. With things hanging off-axis like focus motors and filter wheels, it helps to have that flexibility when balancing on the a-axis.

All that being said, I wouldn’t mind having a mono 2600. But it’s pricey compared to the 533.

Yes I agree that the 533 line of ZWO cameras are great little machines! I also agree about the sensor size which is a potential drawback for many people, but I have heard that once people start using it, they get used to it quite quickly.

There are some coma abberations through my Radian 61, but I can clean them up quite easily with BlurXTerminator and Photoshop. The APS-C sensor of the 2600MC Pro should also help mitigate most of the abberation issues as it's a smaller sensor compared to my 6Da.

Good point about the framing with the square sensor, plus it's great for Instagram too as most content is posted in a 1:1 aspect ratio anyway, so that would definitely alleviate the pain of trying to get a good crop for non 1:1 images.

I would love to go mono one day, but definitely not at this time as I cannot afford a good quality camera with filters and accessories, plus I like the idea of just going out, setting up and imaging with a OSC/DSLR setup. It saves so much time and effort so you can actually shoot more integration time on a target.

Zak

Helpful Engaging Supportive

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

Joe Linington:
There are many companies making an IMX571. Many are cheaper than the ASI. Unless you have an ASIAir then there is no need for a ZWO version.

Yes I have seen many other companies using IMX571 sensors!

I do have an ASIAir Pro that I use when I am autoguiding, but I am potentially thinking about upgrading to an ASIAir Plus one day or maybe even the successor to it if there ends up being one.

Are other brands of cameras compatible with the ASIAir Pro? If so, I'll be more than happy to investigate them and see if there are any cheaper alternatives on the market.

Zak

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

So after doing more research, I am unfortunately unable to purchase the ZWO ASI2600MC Pro at this stage.

It is now down to the ZWO ASI533MC Pro or something else like the ZWO ASI183MC Pro or the ZWO ASI294MC Pro, but after some more research, the ZWO ASI533MC Pro is the best of the bunch, so I might pull the trigger soon and order one.

If there are any other alternatives to the ZWO ASI533MC Pro, please let me know as I would like to compare any other brands that might be just as good, if not better, than the 533MC Pro that is within my budget.

Zak

andrea tasselli

Frequent contributor

Jun 7, 2023

As far as the sensor go you're home with the ASI camera. I have a less expensive Altair but you get more stuff with the ZWO, You won't be disappointed with the results.

Jonny Bravo

Jun 7, 2023

What are you using to drive this? ASIAir? Mini PC? Laptop? What about guiding?

You've already got an Ha-modified camera with some pretty forgiving large pixels and an APS-C sensor. You're, for whatever reason, not going to upgrade the mount from a star tracker. I'm assuming it's the expense, which, I agree, can be pretty significant.

Getting a new scope isn't going to do anything to significantly alter your experience using your current Raptor 61. The tracker is your limiting factor. I wouldn't bother with a 533. You're losing a ton of your existing field of view:

If you are absolutely dead set on spending money on _something_ then might I suggest something different than has been suggested thus far? If you don't mind the ZWO ecosystem, then they sell a bundle with an ASIAir, guide scope and guide camera for about $550 USD. If you've still got some money to spend, then I'd try to take advantage of that Ha-modded sensor and would pick up a dual narrowband filter. Again, ZWO sells one for about $150 USD. So, for less than the cost of the 533, you get a guiding solution, an imaging appliance and a filter to target those lovely emission nebulae.

Were it me, I wouldn't upgrade anything right now and I'd keep saving until I had enough to pick up a go-to mount.

Well Written Helpful Insightful Engaging Supportive

Tim Hawkes

Jun 7, 2023

A contrarian reply but honestly maybe just hold onto your cash and wait a bit?

Sometimes it's better not to compromise and to take a long view when buying equipment and only buy stuff that is likely to be 'future proof' versus the likely direction of your future interests. So - for example - if you like to image wide vistas rather than narrower fields then maybe keep saving for that 2600MC – or even the mono version should your interests evolve more to looking at narrow band more and big fields of H alpha.

Tim

Helpful Insightful Respectful Engaging

DanRossi

Jun 7, 2023

I don't think a larger scope would be worth it until you get a larger mount. So, getting an astro camera would be your best upgrade IMO, and I'd suggest diving right into mono if you have the funds for a filter wheel and decent filters like Astronomik.

Well Written Concise

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

Jonny Bravo:
What are you using to drive this? ASIAir? Mini PC? Laptop? What about guiding?

You've already got an Ha-modified camera with some pretty forgiving large pixels and an APS-C sensor. You're, for whatever reason, not going to upgrade the mount from a star tracker. I'm assuming it's the expense, which, I agree, can be pretty significant.

Getting a new scope isn't going to do anything to significantly alter your experience using your current Raptor 61. The tracker is your limiting factor. I wouldn't bother with a 533. You're losing a ton of your existing field of view:

If you are absolutely dead set on spending money on _something_ then might I suggest something different than has been suggested thus far? If you don't mind the ZWO ecosystem, then they sell a bundle with an ASIAir, guide scope and guide camera for about $550 USD. If you've still got some money to spend, then I'd try to take advantage of that Ha-modded sensor and would pick up a dual narrowband filter. Again, ZWO sells one for about $150 USD. So, for less than the cost of the 533, you get a guiding solution, an imaging appliance and a filter to target those lovely emission nebulae.

Were it me, I wouldn't upgrade anything right now and I'd keep saving until I had enough to pick up a go-to mount.

To drive my ASIAir Pro, I am using a portable battery. I do have a ZWO 30mm f/4 Guidescope and also a ZWO ASI120mm Mini guide camera, which I use whenever I use my Radian 61.

The reason I wanted to look into a dedicated astrophotography camera was to improve my images further by increasing the quality by reducing the noise, but I will investigate a Go-To mount that is in my budget. I was thinking about the Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi, but have since thought about not getting it to replace my original Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer as there are other options on the market such as the ZWO AM3 or something similar.

I was looking at the ZWO ASI2600MC Pro, but have since ruled it out as I cannot afford it. I thought the ZWO ASI533MC Pro was a good compromise from the 2600MC Pro. Personally, I don't mind the square sensor as I think some targets would be a good match for my Radian 61 if I purchase the 533MC Pro as most of the ones I am interested in are too small to image with my 6Da.

I also have both an Optolong L-eNhance and Optolong L-eXtreme, which I use for my emission nebulae targets. I was thinking about picking up either the Optolong L-Ultimate or the Antlia ALP-T at some stage in the future, but I think that they can wait for the moment, as I want to try and purchase something that will be good for my future path in upgrading equipment over time.

Another problem I have is due to my autism, I have low muscle tone, which I have previously expressed in some of my first Astrobin forum posts mid last year. I cannot lift heavy equipment for long periods, but if it is too heavy, I will not be able to lift it at all. I was looking at the Sky-Watcher HEQ5 Pro with the Rowan Belt modification pre-installed, but the mount head weighs 10kg, which I will struggle to lift.

Zak

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

andrea tasselli:
As far as the sensor go you're home with the ASI camera. I have a less expensive Altair but you get more stuff with the ZWO, You won't be disappointed with the results.

Yes I agree, the ZWO cameras have excellent sensors!

I am thinking about whether to proceed with it or not, but I will let everyone know the outcome either way.

Zak

Michael Ring

Jun 7, 2023 · Edited: Jun 7, 2023

Unless you are totally happy with ASIAir and don't want to switch to something else I highly recommend that you look at the price of an IMX571 clone and a mini pc + Nina and compare that to even the price of one of the cheaper ZWO cameras. Bang for the buck is a lot better with the clones and why live with a compromise just because the ASIAir forces you to buy a cheaper ZWO camera model.

I own several of the Rising Star IMX571 clones and I am very happy with the cameras.

Unfortunately you did not yet upload images to Astrobin so it is a little bit hard to get a feeling which part of the whole astro process is currently limiting you, be it a mount not creating round stars, a camera creating too much noise or perhaps something simple like adding an autofocusser or a Bhtainov mask.

Helpful

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

Tim Hawkes:
A contrarian reply but honestly maybe just hold onto your cash and wait a bit?

Sometimes it's better not to compromise and to take a long view when buying equipment and only buy stuff that is likely to be 'future proof' versus the likely direction of your future interests. So - for example - if you like to image wide vistas rather than narrower fields then maybe keep saving for that 2600MC -- or even the mono version should your interests evolve more to looking at narrow band more and big fields of H alpha.

Tim

Thanks for your suggestion Tim, I will take it onboard.

I really do like the ZWO ASI2600MC Pro, as I have read a lot of good things about it. It might be worth that I wait and get that instead.

Unfortunately, as much as I want to switch to mono, I cannot afford mono cameras and filters as it is way out of my budget, plus I like the convenience of setting up early and starting imaging sooner so that I can reap the benefits of more integration time.

I do like using OSC equipment with duoband filters, as I can create some amazing images from them, with my most recent image being Gum 15 and surrounds, which turned out brilliantly.

I also like wide-field imaging, but I would eventually like to upgrade to a bigger telescope such as the Askar FRA500, Askar FRA600 or the Askar 80PHQ, but that will be after I eventually upgrade my mount. I do have a Samyang 135mm f/2 which I don't use often enough for astrophotography, so I thought that getting something like the ZWO ASI533MC Pro would be a good match to pair with my Samyang 135mm f/2.

Zak

Respectful

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023

I don't think a larger scope would be worth it until you get a larger mount. So, getting an astro camera would be your best upgrade IMO, and I'd suggest diving right into mono if you have the funds for a filter wheel and decent filters like Astronomik.

Thanks for your suggestion Dan, really appreciate it!

Yes, I think that upgrading from my trusty Canon 6Da to a dedicated astrophotography camera would be a big step up from it, plus I could also use it with my Samyang 135mm f/2 as I love using that lens for astrophotography.

Unfortunately, my budget does not allow for me to upgrade directly to a mono setup with filters, as much as I would like to.

Zak

Well Written Respectful

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 7, 2023 · Edited: Jun 7, 2023

Michael Ring:
Unless you are totally happy with ASIAir and don't want to switch to something else I highly recommend that you look at the price of an IMX571 clone and a mini pc + Nina and compare that to even the price of one of the cheaper ZWO cameras. Bang for the buck is a lot better with the clones and why live with a compromise just because the ASIAir forces you to buy a cheaper ZWO camera model.

I own several of the Rising Star IMX571 clones and I am very happy with the cameras.

Unfortunately you did not yet upload images to Astrobin so it is a little bit hard to get a feeling which part of the whole astro process is currently limiting you, be it a mount not creating round stars, a camera creating too much noise or perhaps something simple like adding an autofocusser or a Bhtainov mask.

I love my ASIAir Pro, it's a dream to use and everything is so easy to setup!

I did look at cheaper alternatives with the IMX571 sensor, but I am worried that if I get something else that is cheaper, it won't come with warranty, such as the RisingCam cameras from Aliexpress.

I did look at QHY and other companies such as Altair, but I don't think that they have AU power outlets as I live in Australia. If they do offer cameras with AU power outlets, I will definitely consider them.

Glad to hear that you are happy with the Rising Star IMX571 cameras!

Are mini PC's easy to use and mount? If they are, it might be worth me investigating into one that will suit my needs so then I can start considering other branded cameras that use the IMX571 sensor.

Yes, I do need to upload some images to my Astrobin, but the problem is I don't have a paid version of Astrobin yet, so once I upload my 10 images, I need to upgrade to a paid account to be able to post more, and also I cannot delete images and then put new ones up as one upload counts towards the total upload count of 10 images. I might upload a selecton of my best images as a portfolio so that people can have a look at my work.

Zak

Michael Ring

Jun 7, 2023

Mini PC's are very similar to use as the ASIAir, they usually weight a little more, but not much. Remote Desktp software works fine, either with a tablet or from a notebook, whatever you have. And not beeing fully locked in the ZWO ecosystem gives you ore freedom to choose your components.

It would be nice to see some of your pictures, so keep those best versions coming!

Michael

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 8, 2023

Michael Ring:
Mini PC's are very similar to use as the ASIAir, they usually weight a little more, but not much. Remote Desktp software works fine, either with a tablet or from a notebook, whatever you have. And not beeing fully locked in the ZWO ecosystem gives you ore freedom to choose your components.

It would be nice to see some of your pictures, so keep those best versions coming!

Michael

Thanks again for your suggestions, really appreciate it! I will look into potentially getting a Mini PC, as I think I can perhaps use it all from inside so it saves me going outside every half hour to check on the equipment, plus it will allow me to look at other cheaper alternatives that have the IMX571 sensor in them, as it is a fantastic sensor.

Yes, I have so far uploaded 2 of my images onto my profile, although they are pending moderation approval. I think I will just upload my 10 best images as a portfolio for everyone to look at, then I will most likely upgrade my subscription status so I can post more images and potentially get IOTD's etc.

Zak

Jan Erik Vallestad

Jun 11, 2023

I am in the ZWO environment, currently using the 533MM. I wound up choosing it due to the fairly decent pricing, with filters in mind, but I do find myself wanting the 2600MM now after one season. The 533 however is very good though, I simply do mosaics if I want more in the FOV and it's not that bad. I wouldn't hesitate to put in a good word for the camera, great performer.

Zak Jones

Topic starter

Jun 13, 2023

I am in the ZWO environment, currently using the 533MM. I wound up choosing it due to the fairly decent pricing, with filters in mind, but I do find myself wanting the 2600MM now after one season. The 533 however is very good though, I simply do mosaics if I want more in the FOV and it's not that bad. I wouldn't hesitate to put in a good word for the camera, great performer.

I agree, I love using ZWO's products. They are well made, look cool with their red accents and are easy to use.

The 533 Pro line of cameras are great for sure. I have seen amazing results with them! The only thing that I am hesitant about is the square sensor, but I'm sure that I could get over that with time.

Even though I made this forum post a week ago, I am now redirecting my needs to a new mount, such as the ZWO AM3 or Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi. Both are excellent mounts for what they are, but I am leaning towards maybe getting the GTi mainly for price and weight factor, plus I can put some decent equipment on a GTi too, if I take care not to go over it's payload limit.

Zak

Jan Erik Vallestad

Jun 13, 2023

Zak Jones:
I am in the ZWO environment, currently using the 533MM. I wound up choosing it due to the fairly decent pricing, with filters in mind, but I do find myself wanting the 2600MM now after one season. The 533 however is very good though, I simply do mosaics if I want more in the FOV and it's not that bad. I wouldn't hesitate to put in a good word for the camera, great performer.

I agree, I love using ZWO's products. They are well made, look cool with their red accents and are easy to use.

The 533 Pro line of cameras are great for sure. I have seen amazing results with them! The only thing that I am hesitant about is the square sensor, but I'm sure that I could get over that with time.

Even though I made this forum post a week ago, I am now redirecting my needs to a new mount, such as the ZWO AM3 or Sky-Watcher Star Adventurer GTi. Both are excellent mounts for what they are, but I am leaning towards maybe getting the GTi mainly for price and weight factor, plus I can put some decent equipment on a GTi too, if I take care not to go over it's payload limit.

Zak

The square sensor debate is a non issue as far as I'm concerned, I'm not sure why it's even being discussed in the first place. Maybe I'm bias since I've been using it for a bit now, but I quite like it. The only reason I have for wanting the bigger sibling is larger FOV really.

A good mount is the best investment you'll make, if lightweight portability is the most important thing then a GTi makes sense. I stumbled upon another thread you have going about mounts. I've had the SA2i and both the GTi and AM3 would be major upgrades, the AM3 hits in a different league than the GTi though. It may spark a need for other equipment, but I wouldn't directly compare the two as equals.