Dark Sky Site--Here I Come! - Forums

Topic starter

Apr 27, 2023

My wife and I are going up to Etna, California in a few weeks for a vacation and astrophotography. There's a large open field with plenty of sky access from horizon to horizon (and Bortle 1-2 skies!) but the field is not even, there's grass growing on it.

What is the best solution as far as leveling and stabilizing the tripod feet in such a scenario? Are there firm pads or cement blocks or something like that to put between the grass and the tripod foot?

Thanks!
Jerry

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Brian Puhl

IOTD Staff

Apr 27, 2023

Go to lowes and get yourself some pavers.

Jerry Gerber

Topic starter

Apr 27, 2023

Go to lowes and get yourself some pavers.

Thanks Brian!

Anderl

Apr 27, 2023

I don’t think that it is necessary that your tripod is perfectly leveled as long as your polar alignment is on point

James Sokolowski

Apr 27, 2023

Pavers work great… make them heavy and give them time to sink into the ground… that's what I use in my backyard…

Jeff Reitzel

Apr 27, 2023 · Edited: Apr 27, 2023

Round or square Pavers are great and I used something like that for a long time. I went a lot lighter and cut 8x8 inch squares from some 3/4 inch plywood I had. I bored out small holes to fit the tripod feet in the center of them. Just deep enough the tripod feet fit and won't slide. Works perfectly on every surface I have tried and they fit neatly in my tripod carry case. I use that on rigs up to my Edge 11. I'm guessing total weight is 250 -300 lbs. Too much heavier than that and they might flex a bit on really soft surfaces I think. Seem to make a great anti-vibration pad as a bonus.
CS,
Jeff

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Brian Puhl

IOTD Staff

Apr 27, 2023

I don’t think that it is necessary that your tripod is perfectly leveled as long as your polar alignment is on point

It actually is pretty important. When its not level, your image will rotate throughout the night. (Figured that one out the hard way lol)

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James Sokolowski

Apr 27, 2023

The wood / hole thing sounds like a great idea… I'd say though, whatever route you take, to let the system sit out for a few/several hours to settle. My equipment, even w/ concrete pavers does settle some over time… it actually tends to tip forward due to the mass of the counter weights. You don't see it, but if you polar align a couple of times several hours apart you'll see the nose of the equip have dipped downward slightly… so lay out whatever you'll use, and setup all your equipment early enough to just let the stuff settle down into the grass and soil…

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Jonny Bravo

Apr 27, 2023

I don’t think that it is necessary that your tripod is perfectly leveled as long as your polar alignment is on point

It actually is pretty important. When it's not level, your image will rotate throughout the night. (Figured that one out the hard way lol)

It doesn't matter at all if an equatorial mount is level. You can hang it upside down from a tree branch or put it on a 45 degree angle or sideways on a wall. As long as you're properly polar aligned, it'll track the target and there won't be any rotation. If you were getting rotation, your polar alignment was off, not because the mount wasn't level.

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Arun H

Frequent contributor

Apr 27, 2023

Jonny Bravo:
It doesn't matter at all if an equatorial mount is level.

Johnny is exactly correct. The exercise of polar alignment is to make your RA axis parallel to the rotational axis of the Earth. Field rotation is a result of bad PA, not bad leveling. That said, leveling is still a helpful exercise simply because, if a mount is level, you'll end up making fewer altitude adjustments for PA.

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Jerry Gerber

Topic starter

Apr 27, 2023

I don’t think that it is necessary that your tripod is perfectly leveled as long as your polar alignment is on point

True, but if the ground is soft and there's 60 or 70 lbs of weight on it, it will sink. Even if it sinks a couple of millimeters that will throw off polar alignment.

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Jerry Gerber

Topic starter

Apr 27, 2023

Jonny Bravo:
I don’t think that it is necessary that your tripod is perfectly leveled as long as your polar alignment is on point

It actually is pretty important. When it's not level, your image will rotate throughout the night. (Figured that one out the hard way lol)

It doesn't matter at all if an equatorial mount is level. You can hang it upside down from a tree branch or put it on a 45 degree angle or sideways on a wall. As long as you're properly polar aligned, it'll track the target and there won't be any rotation. If you were getting rotation, your polar alignment was off, not because the mount wasn't level.

Assuming that the lack of a perfectly level mount remains completely stationary. It's not the leveling that's so critical, it's the movement of the tripod leg because the ground is soft.

Jonny Bravo

Apr 27, 2023

Jerry Gerber:
Jonny Bravo:
I don’t think that it is necessary that your tripod is perfectly leveled as long as your polar alignment is on point

It actually is pretty important. When it's not level, your image will rotate throughout the night. (Figured that one out the hard way lol)

It doesn't matter at all if an equatorial mount is level. You can hang it upside down from a tree branch or put it on a 45 degree angle or sideways on a wall. As long as you're properly polar aligned, it'll track the target and there won't be any rotation. If you were getting rotation, your polar alignment was off, not because the mount wasn't level.

Assuming that the lack of a perfectly level mount remains completely stationary. It's not the leveling that's so critical, it's the movement of the tripod leg because the ground is soft.

Tripod moves because ground is soft, polar alignment is thrown off. Totally agree. Whether the mount is level is irrelevant, as long as it's polar aligned.

Others have given some good suggestions on how to mitigate the soft ground problem. Pavers to help spread the weight load over a larger surface area would work quite well in my opinion. I'd be too afraid of flexure in the plywood... I mean, I know how much my floors creak and moan as I walk across them.

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Brian Puhl

IOTD Staff

Apr 27, 2023

Jonny Bravo:
I don’t think that it is necessary that your tripod is perfectly leveled as long as your polar alignment is on point

It actually is pretty important. When it's not level, your image will rotate throughout the night. (Figured that one out the hard way lol)

It doesn't matter at all if an equatorial mount is level. You can hang it upside down from a tree branch or put it on a 45 degree angle or sideways on a wall. As long as you're properly polar aligned, it'll track the target and there won't be any rotation. If you were getting rotation, your polar alignment was off, not because the mount wasn't level.

I retract my previous. You are correct.

John Sims

Apr 27, 2023

Leveling does help with the polar alignment. Then left means left, and up means up. If not level, left mean sorta left and sorta up (or down).

Patrick Graham

Apr 28, 2023

I agree that leveling is important. I always take the time to make sure the leveling bubbles are as close to center as I can get them. On soft ground, like the grass you were describing, Jerry, I would think that without some kind of pad for the tripod, it would eventually settle over time and at some point, be out of true. I use the jack leveling pads from my 5th wheel. They are about 9 inches square and provide a firm surface, eliminating or reducing settling. I've had great success with these even on firm surfaces.

In the long run, set up early and take the time to get the tripod level; checking periodically as you add your equipment that it hasn't shifted. It's much easier to adjust in daylight.

This all seems a bit elementary but still, I hope it helps.

CS

Patrick

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Jerry Gerber

Topic starter

Apr 28, 2023 · Edited: Apr 28, 2023

Patrick Graham:
I agree that leveling is important. I always take the time to make sure the leveling bubbles are as close to center as I can get them. On soft ground, like the grass you were describing, Jerry, I would think that without some kind of pad for the tripod, it would eventually settle over time and at some point, be out of true. I use the jack leveling pads from my 5th wheel. They are about 9 inches square and provide a firm surface, eliminating or reducing settling. I've had great success with these even on firm surfaces.

In the long run, set up early and take the time to get the tripod level; checking periodically as you add your equipment that it hasn't shifted. It's much easier to adjust in daylight.

This all seems a bit elementary but still, I hope it helps.

CS

Patrick

Yeah, that's what I am going to do. Setup in the afternoon 5 hours before sunset. 8x10 tarp down over the grass and 3 pavers for the tripod legs. Better yet, if I scout the place and find an area without grass I won't have to deal with that issue. But I'm bringing the tarp and pavers just in case. The 12"x12" pavers weigh 18 lbs. each! Urgh!! More weight to carry. I bought the AM5 mount to keep weight low but this pursuit is a rabbit hole and I keep finding I have to add stuff that adds weight. Starting to wonder, did I take up astrophtography or did I take up weightlifting?

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John Sims

Apr 28, 2023

Did you consider using the spikes that came with the AM5 tripod? (if you are using that tripod)

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Jerry Gerber

Topic starter

Apr 28, 2023

John Sims:
Did you consider using the spikes that came with the AM5 tripod? (if you are using that tripod)

I don't recall any spikes that came with the TC-40 carbon fiber tripod. But even so, I just bought the ioptron tri-pier because my long refractor's camera was bumping up against the tripod's leg when imaging near zenith. The tri-pier will resolve that.

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Patrick Graham

Apr 28, 2023

Jerry Gerber:
Patrick Graham:
I agree that leveling is important. I always take the time to make sure the leveling bubbles are as close to center as I can get them. On soft ground, like the grass you were describing, Jerry, I would think that without some kind of pad for the tripod, it would eventually settle over time and at some point, be out of true. I use the jack leveling pads from my 5th wheel. They are about 9 inches square and provide a firm surface, eliminating or reducing settling. I've had great success with these even on firm surfaces.

In the long run, set up early and take the time to get the tripod level; checking periodically as you add your equipment that it hasn't shifted. It's much easier to adjust in daylight.

This all seems a bit elementary but still, I hope it helps.

CS

Patrick

Yeah, that's what I am going to do. Setup in the afternoon 5 hours before sunset. 8x10 tarp down over the grass and 3 pavers for the tripod legs. Better yet, if I scout the place and find an area without grass I won't have to deal with that issue. But I'm bringing the tarp and pavers just in case. The 12"x12" pavers weigh 18 lbs. each! Urgh!! More weight to carry. I bought the AM5 mount to keep weight low but this pursuit is a rabbit hole and I keep finding I have to add stuff that adds weight. Starting to wonder, did I take up astrophtography or did I take up weightlifting?

About the tarp......don't use one. Even weighted down by pavers, tarps will shift, pull and bunch up, destroying your hard work in polar alignment and leveling. Try those plastic leveling blocks for RVs. They're light weight, and inexpensive. they'll anchor your tripod feet securely and give you a wide, area of coverage that prevents settling. It works for me.

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