Where next with my AP gear? - Forums

Topic starter

Apr 9, 2023

I would like to tap into the wisdom and experience of my AB friends again.

For the past two years, I have been imaging with a largely "settled" suite of rigs; a Nikon 200mm f/2 camera lens, a  TS Hypergraph8 at f/3.2 and a GSO RC8 at f/8. With a couple of mounts, I can run two simultaneously with my OSC and mono full-frame ZWO sensors. I am fortunate indeed to be able to afford this kit, but AP has become one of my primary retirement projects, and provided a much needed focus during the challenging days of COVID lockdown.

While I haven't bought any new kit for 2 years, I find myself wondering what path I should take. Should I simply be happy with what I have got and work to continue to improve my post-processing skills; [buy and learn Photoshop perhaps? Or should I invest in new kit?

The most obvious upgrade (at least to me) is to increase aperture size. The downside is that to gain a real difference, I feel I would have to go to at least 300mm aperture, also necessitating a mount upgrade. Also, while I leave under Bortle 2, my seeing is not great 3-4arcsec. So a longer focal length e.g with a larger RC will likely be wasted on me. I could go to more specialised 'scopes [Dream Astrograph, CDK]. but the cost is starting to become eye-wateringly large. Indeed, given my statistical remaining life-span, it would be cheaper to join an imaging consortium at one of the remote public observatories.

I could go for a more limited aperture upgrade to 250mm, but am I really going to notice the difference? Roughly 25% faster which is easily "lost" in other factors e.g. transparency, zenith distance of observation.

Another option I have consider, is a top-of-line filter set. I currently use Optolong and Astronomik fBB and NB filters. Would an upgrade to e.g. Chroma net a significant difference?

Or perhaps I should just be happy with my imaging train and get a better and higher spec'ed mount than my current EQ6-R Pro. It can deliver up to 0.3arcsec rms in tracking, but I might be able to do better?

Grateful for any advice to those who might have similar experience with these "aperture blues"

Thank you in advance for your help and advice.

Clear skies

Brian

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GalacticRAVE

Apr 9, 2023

Hi Brian!

Somewhere I read that astrophotography is the perfect hobby - as it combines stars, computers and gadgets. How true! Therefore I am not really a friend of the remote option, because if you continue that thought you end up with downloading the Hubble archive. For me, the backyard factor is a major part of the fun (the best telescope is the one you use the most often). What part of your imaging are you least happy with - there I would start thinking about new gadgets … my 5 cents …

Matthias

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Oscar

Apr 10, 2023 · Edited: Apr 10, 2023

Also your budget is important

Wei-Hao Wang

Apr 10, 2023

Hi Brian,

If your seeing is really 3" to 4", then there is really no point going to a larger RC. Two years ago I got a 10" RC. Comparing to my 6" refractor, I immediately see that the larger RC does not bring much resolution advantage, because of the 2" to 3" seeing of my mobile imaging sites. All it does is to increase the light collecting power, which is very welcome. Unfortunately I found the increase light collecting power less attractive if the image is fuzzy (same seeing, but longer focal length).

On the other hand, the Bortle 2 sky is an advantage not everyone has. Maybe going deep is something you can explore, rather than trying to get high-resolution images. For example, you may upgrade your 8" hypergraph to something in the 10" to 12" range with comparable focal ratio, plus a good camera that can do justice to this optics. Such a focal length should be long enough for you to not run out of targets easily. If you have a fixed observatory and OK clear sky rate, you should be able to produce many amazingly deep images in the many years to come.

Hope what I said makes sense.

Cheers,
Wei-Hao

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Nick Grundy

Apr 10, 2023

Brian, loads there to digest compute and analyze, but as you've been so helpful to me, I'll do my best.

As a sort of newb to the hobby though, please take everything with a grain a of salt. I'm a fairly objective data driven person, but my short time and knowledge can leave a bit to be desired.

That said, I think there's a couple factors that matter a lot. #1, you tend to use the home observatory in your wonderful bortle skies, correct? So you don't need to concern yourself with weight ratios or lugging heavy items about. You will likely have it set, and only require periodic alignment?

Only because i've been looking at the market a lot recently, who doesn't love large high quality refractors? (stellarvue has been my latest infatuation of possible ownership)

As someone who recently shared a similar upgrade path on the filters, I wouldn't have extremem hopes of buyer fulfillment there. My guess is that you are thinking about a spend and it's best to get a "wow" moment in return when you do. upgraded filters just dont hit me that way.

My guess is to get a big but lightweight aperture (Tec140 or Stellarvue130 would still fit the EQR6) or do make a crazier jump and buy a daystar. it would force a new process, new toolset, new focus for you. I haven't gone there yet myself, but maybe it checks your boxes?

good luck and CS
Nick

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Ruediger

Apr 10, 2023 · Edited: Apr 10, 2023

Hello Brian,

Please allow me my two cents based on my experiences: maybe it is also an interesting option instead of investing in „bigger“, into more reliability and quality of the gear? I have noticed that reliability -if things just work- is a huge boost for joy and fun. In the beginning I also thought bigger is better, but then I quickly noticed that quality pays much more off. For example, the biggest boost I experienced was the upgrade from my EQ8 to my 10 Micron mount. This also allows new areas of interest. E.g. tracking of ISS or other satellites, minor planets and other unusual stuff.

A second option to overcome this beginning „Astro bore-out“ could also be conquering of new areas. How about a small Ha telescope for sun gazing? It is an amazing experience to enjoy our hobby on daytime.

These are only some examples how to overcome this period, which probably every AP will experience in his life. This is very common. Getting bigger equipment is very often only a short satisfaction, whereas high quality equipment and diversity of interests keep you going for many more years.

CS
Ruediger

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Brian Boyle

Topic starter

Apr 11, 2023

Really helpful feedback from everyone. Interesting to note the comments about buyer fulfilment on the "remote" and "filter" option. I suspected the former (but good to have it confirmed by @GalacticRAVE ) but wasn't aware of the latter (thanks @Nick Grundy )

@Ruediger has a number of great suggestions and has not only captured this period of an astrophotographer's journey better, but with some great ideas for diversification.

I suspect that the way forward is with a mount upgrade initially followed by a larger payload, along the line @Wei-Hao Wang  suggested. I guess there is a reason why there are so many 12inch Newtonian f/4s out there doing great work....

and @messierman3000 budget is important which probably means I an looking at a 300mm Newtonian and not something fancier like a Planewave 12.5 (with reducing optiic, or even a 16inch Dream astrograph - which would be number #1 pick if I could afford it!

Thanks so much everyone.

Brian

Tim Ray

Apr 11, 2023

Brian,

You pose an interesting topic. Not only is it the gear and the objects the gear is optimized to image. It is the amount of time that we have left to to use it. I am pushing 60 and figure I have 20 years max, more likely 10 to 15 years left before my "late in life" reality requires me to lighten my AP footprint. With that said. I would recommend construction of a roll off roof observatory. That would support your multiple rigs. As I am starting to image the sun practicing for the next April's solar eclipse, I am having so much fun doing to solar imaging that I am thinking of doing some lunar photography. I am a hard core DSO guy, but I am enjoying exploring these different disciplines of AP. Possibly expanding into Planetary or Solar/Lunar photography vs spending money to purchase gear to image similar objects. Of course, we all are hopefully progressing along the journey known as image processing. Your deep into the rabbit hole! Its ok, its crowded down here!

CS - Tim

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Brian Boyle

Topic starter

Apr 11, 2023

Tim,
You read my mind. As I pushed past 60, I built my own roll-off roof observatory! I even moved house with it.

I agree it is one of the best investments you can make. My only regret is that it might be too small to house a larger scope. But I guess I could squeeze it in, if I parked it away from the pole.

Having said that, I might be tempted to build another one to house a larger scooe, together with my other ones. i would also have it under full weather control and will all-sky camera broadcasting to the world….

Down and down the rabbit hole we go.

CS

Brian

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GalacticRAVE

Apr 11, 2023

Hi Brian, looks like a good plan to me. I upgraded my mount last year (to a CEM120 - still roll in and roll out, roll-off roof is next) and it substantially increased reliability and fun (and I see it also in the FWHM of my images). Another thought: you cannot change the seeing and you basically maxed out the sensor size with your 6200 (ok you could go for a IMX461, but that well pushes you into a different price bracket, basically adding a 0 to all your equipment costs). so with your 3.75 micron pixel, 1500-2000mm is a kind of a sweet spot in focal length, some over sampling has its advantages (decon, registration) but there is little point of going much longer. But of course you could increase you diameter, resulting in faster optics (with all its challenges), more light collecting power. … and you still get a decent FOV (aren't we both having a WF tradition?)

Matthias

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rhedden

Apr 11, 2023

Brian,

I have a suggestion that might be different from your previous thoughts. Instead of buying new gear, which comes with unexpected technical headaches, I suggest buying a duplicate of your favorite imaging rig so that you have two rigs running side by side.

You would instantly get twice the integration time with a rig that you already know is functioning well at your site.

You may not be able to dodge your typically 3-4" seeing, but nothing trumps integration time for image quality. Run luminance on one rig and RGB on the other, or run LRGB on one and narrowband on the other. Finish a whole project in one night.

I'm sure there is some catch in terms of getting the images to stack together - like one of the setups might have more tilt than the other - but if you already have gear that is working well, the risks are much lower than starting over with unfamiliar stuff.

I also have poor seeing at my present site in the northeast US, and I don't get enough clear skies to post more than one image per month. My larger aperture C11 EdgeHD spends most of its time collecting dust because the seeing is frequently too bumpy to bother using it. My little 4" refractor is highly reliable as mentioned above, it deals with poor seeing well (due to large field of view), and it's fully automated so that I can sleep while it images. The refractor is slowly taking over because the field of view is larger, so I can split imaging projects into up to four completed images.

If I were going for a big gear upgrade right now, I'd just buy a second copy of this system, mount and all. If one of the mounts or cameras drops dead, I'm not out of business for months on end while gear is on back-order.

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Nick Grundy

Apr 11, 2023

I suggest buying a duplicate of your favorite imaging rig so that you have two rigs running side by side.

very valid idea! Would it make sense to just have a big mount and the dual saddle type of situation?

Ruediger

Apr 11, 2023

Nick Grundy:
I suggest buying a duplicate of your favorite imaging rig so that you have two rigs running side by side.

very valid idea! Would it make sense to just have a big mount and the dual saddle type of situation?

I have to say I am not convinced by this idea, since you double the invest (and trouble) only to achieve the very same only in half of the time. You gain nothing except some time and you are stuck with the same old limits. You cannot dive into new areas and keep you motivated. This looks like a dead end to me.

CS
Ruediger

Björn Arnold

Apr 11, 2023

Brian,

May I ask if you know WHAT you want to achieve or do?
I understand that new (and larger) equipment to some sort is „sexy“ but I strongly believe it needs to be aimed at a purpose, i.e. to do something your present equipment cannot or only hardly achieve or if you have an issue which you can only overcome with a better technology (e.g. replacing a flawed mount etc.). I somehow cannot see what this purpose is supposed to be. If you want to go deeper, a larger aperture can be an approach.

Otherwise, I would rather suggest, use you equipment to „go where nobody has gone before“. For example, as you certainly know there are so many objects which are hardly shown here on AB. Maybe it might be valuable to hunt these and there are plenty which your RC8 could frame and capture nicely.

Personally I appreciate more when people capture something new or rare or experiment instead of giving the millionth version of an object but „just“ with larger aperture. (my view)

CS,
Björn

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