How do you polar align your AM5 mount? - Forums

Topic starter

Mar 20, 2023

Because of the really bad weather here in Switzerland it has been a little while since I last used my AM5.

Tonight is the first (and last) night with clear skies so I installed the AM5 and my 1000mm Newtonian on my balcony.

Then the troubles started, Polar Alignment was a complete mess in Nina, when I had things under control and re-started the Polar Alignment the new values were 20arcsec away from the good alignment I had before. I have repeated this game several times, outcome was always the same.

To make things worse I already changed to Nina Nightly last week so there is another factor that might come into play, some inconsistency coming from Nina.

But chances are higher that I perhaps do not master the Art of PA with this new to me mount as I had troubles with PA and this mount once before, followed by 2 evenings of pure fun with the mount…

I somehow have theimpression that when I lock RA this has an influence on DEC and it is a big difference with this mount if you have to correct upwards vs. downwards so I kept the two knobs for fixing RA quite loose. With my Skywatcher Mounts I can easily work against a mostly tightened RA, but with the AM5 I am not yet at that point, it seems that I am doing something wrong here or this technique does not apply at all.

So please, when you also own an AM5 please describe your tricks (if any) for doing polar alignment…

Thank you,

Michael

apennine104

Mar 20, 2023

Hi Michael,

I have run into similar problems. I have used both NINA and SharpCap, and experienced about the same. I get the polar alignment good, then re-test. Usually the first few times the re-test then shows my alignment is off again. My current technique (which I am not that happy with, so I am excited to hear other replies!) is below:

- Run NINA Three Point Polar Alignment (TPPA) from AM5 home position
- Loosen DEC/RA adjustment knobs, get to less than 5', tighten knobs (if you slew with them loose, it goes way out of alignment)
—– Confirm still good after tightening knobs
- Back to home position
- Repeat TPPA using same as above
- Slew the mount around to random points in the sky just to exercise the mount/tripod (I have heard the theory the unbalanced payload makes it go out of alignment sometimes)
- Back to home position
- Repeat TPPA to confirm it is good
—— If bad (10’ or greater) curse and try again
—— If good(5’ or less), slew to target and run PHD2 guiding assistant for 5minutes to see what it says
———— If PHD2 says less than 10', I go with it. If its way out, I'll go back to TPPA

I have not seen an advantage of working in SharpCap.

Thanks for starting this topic!

Chris

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Michael Ring

Topic starter

Mar 20, 2023

Thank you for your reply! There are two immediate takeaways for me:
- Fasten knobs when re-running TPPA (Stupid mistake. did not do that as my technique with Skywatcher mounts is different… )
- Perhaps I should try to use a counterweight to see if this omproves things.
What I do not understand is that I had nights were polar alignment actually was easy….

apennine104

Mar 20, 2023

Michael Ring:
Thank you for your reply! There are two immediate takeaways for me:
- Fasten knobs when re-running TPPA (Stupid mistake. did not do that as my technique with Skywatcher mounts is different... )
- Perhaps I should try to use a counterweight to see if this omproves things.
What I do not understand is that I had nights were polar alignment actually was easy....

No problem!

- I also am coming from a different mount (CEM40) which seemed easier to polar align with iPolar, so I totally understand the different techniques comment
- I have also thought about the counterweight, but my guiding is usually good (0.6-0.8"), so haven't pursued it
- I agree! Sometimes I do it once, and when I confirm, it's still good. Other nights it's repeated frustration until it finally cooperates

Larry CABLE

Aug 28, 2024

PA with the AM5 is a nightmare in my experience, I'm using ASIAir as the PA cpu, but I find that the adjustments are really difficult especially towards those final few secs … both the alt and the az adjustments are too imprecise and I also find that the alignment "wanders" … I have not found a suitable protocol to overcome these issues…

I note they have made some changes to the AM5N particularly around the "locking" mechanism for AZ … I think both (existing) locking mechanisms (when tightened) negatively
affect the PA knocking it off some … almost like an "absence of backlash" effect …

I find it very frustrating and possibly the major shortcoming of the AM5 … it makes setup a really chore and gets in the way of actually using the system.

Michael Jarvis

Aug 29, 2024

I use the AM5 and ASIAIR+. I do a rough polar alignment using the solar feature on the Polar Scope Align Pro app. Subsequent fine tuning PA using ASIAIR+ with both the AM5 and AM3 mounts is easy and efficient, especially since my view of Polaris is blocked. I can easily PA within 5 min using this technique.

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Brandon Tackett

IOTD Staff

Aug 29, 2024 · Edited: Aug 29, 2024

Michael Ring:
Thank you for your reply! There are two immediate takeaways for me:
- Fasten knobs when re-running TPPA (Stupid mistake. did not do that as my technique with Skywatcher mounts is different... )
- Perhaps I should try to use a counterweight to see if this omproves things.
What I do not understand is that I had nights were polar alignment actually was easy....

*Hi Michael

I have been using my am5 for 4 months now with my RASA8 setup. While the rasa ota is only 23 lbs, I have always run it with an 11 lbs counter weight. This was due to my worry about tipping, but it has produced excellent guiding between 0.4 and 0.7" at 280 guide scope focal length almost every night. On really excellent calm nights, I have averaged .25 to .35". I polar align with my asi air to 5 arc min at the rasa 400 mm focal length. And yes, I tighten everything down after the the alignment and reverify it correct.

-Brandon

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Sean Mc

Aug 29, 2024

Asiair plus. I usually guide at .35-.55

Funny thing is, I put my scope/tripod out a coue of nights ago, git distracted and forgot to polar align. I was guiding at .17-23 LOL

Larry CABLE

Aug 29, 2024

I think my main complaint is with the ALT and AZ adjustment screws; I think their thread pitch is too coarse, and there is quite a lot of backlash particularly in the ALT axis…

its like playing PONG on a faulty games console…

I also think that when subsequently locking either axis after aligning the act of doing so torques the mount and moves it off of PA.

the few times I have persevered and got something like a PA when I slew the mount to a particular target the ASIAir nearly always fails to plate solve the target to verify that it has
centered on the desired target (indicating that it is not or no longer polar aligned)

Ive just recently resumed my interest in astronomy and my experiences with the AM5 + ASIAir have almost convinced me to find another hobby.

Sean Mc

Aug 29, 2024

Strange. It should plate solve regardless of whether you’re polar aligned. Maybe check your voltages? I had a similar problem and it turned out to be a bad 3rd party power supply sagging below 11v.

Well Written Concise

Ashraf AbuSara

Aug 29, 2024 · Edited: Aug 29, 2024

Larry CABLE:
I think my main complaint is with the ALT and AZ adjustment screws; I think their thread pitch is too coarse, and there is quite a lot of backlash particularly in the ALT axis...

its like playing PONG on a faulty games console...

I also think that when subsequently locking either axis after aligning the act of doing so torques the mount and moves it off of PA.

the few times I have persevered and got something like a PA when I slew the mount to a particular target the ASIAir nearly always fails to plate solve the target to verify that it has
centered on the desired target (indicating that it is not or no longer polar aligned)

Ive just recently resumed my interest in astronomy and my experiences with the AM5 + ASIAir have almost convinced me to find another hobby.

Failing to plate solve has nothing to do with whether you are polar aligned or not. Something else is wrong with the setup. Maybe you have the wrong focal length entered, or you have the wrong time and date, or wrong coordinates.

It sometimes will platesolve, but fail to sync if the area you are plate solving ends up being on the other side of the meridian. That would occur if you are trying to platesolve close to the meridian.

Don't give up. Please feel free to ask questions on forums someone will help.

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Maxim

Aug 29, 2024

Also make sure the ground that the mount is standing on is stable. I once spent half an hour fighting jumping PA values only to discover that they change when I walk around the tripod.

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Larry CABLE

Aug 29, 2024

Maxim:
Also make sure the ground that the mount is standing on is stable. I once spent half an hour fighting jumping PA values only to discover that they change when I walk around the tripod.

its on solid concrete ... but its a good diagnosis...

Larry CABLE

Aug 29, 2024

Ashraf AbuSara:
Larry CABLE:
I think my main complaint is with the ALT and AZ adjustment screws; I think their thread pitch is too coarse, and there is quite a lot of backlash particularly in the ALT axis...

its like playing PONG on a faulty games console...

I also think that when subsequently locking either axis after aligning the act of doing so torques the mount and moves it off of PA.

the few times I have persevered and got something like a PA when I slew the mount to a particular target the ASIAir nearly always fails to plate solve the target to verify that it has
centered on the desired target (indicating that it is not or no longer polar aligned)

Ive just recently resumed my interest in astronomy and my experiences with the AM5 + ASIAir have almost convinced me to find another hobby.

Failing to plate solve has nothing to do with whether you are polar aligned or not. Something else is wrong with the setup. Maybe you have the wrong focal length entered, or you have the wrong time and date, or wrong coordinates.

It sometimes will platesolve, but fail to sync if the area you are plate solving ends up being on the other side of the meridian. That would occur if you are trying to platesolve close to the meridian.

Don't give up. Please feel free to ask questions on forums someone will help.

when I say it fails to PS what I mean is that when the ASIAir completes the slew to target it attempts to verify that the target is centered by performing a PS, its that test/check that consistently fails ... because the mount is not centered on the target (sufficiently if at all)

the auto focus and PA using the camera "works" so I do not think its a power supply issue to any of the components, but its a valid diagnosis none the less, thanks!

I think I just need to come up with a better protocol for adjusting the ALT-AZ on the AM5 (that does not involve a LARGE HAMMER) that results in a better and permanent PA

thanks. everyone!

Michael Jarvis

Aug 29, 2024

One check. Make sure you send the AM5 (or 3) back to the home position after polar alignment. ASIAIR slew to target should be spot on after that.

Concise

Larry CABLE

Aug 29, 2024

Michael Jarvis:
One check. Make sure you send the AM5 (or 3) back to the home position after polar alignment. ASIAIR slew to target should be spot on after that.

cheers I'lll try that!

Patrick Graham

Aug 29, 2024

I use the ASIAirPlus PA routine. Also, I make sure the azimuth locking screws are just tight enough to move the elevation smoothly without causing slippage or too much force. I also make sure to autorefresh and give it a couple of loop cycles to steady out to determine my corrections. Small adjustments are the key as is patience. Once I get the "smiley face" than I don't touch it and proceed with my imaging. This usually gets me within 30" in both RA and DEC. Autoguiding is spot on and the fluctuations in RMS are usually due to atmospheric disturbances. I have the 1st generation AM5 so I think the improvement in azimuth adjustment with the new AM5N should make the process easier and less time consuming. Hope this helps.

Patrick

Helpful

Larry CABLE

Aug 29, 2024

Patrick Graham:
I use the ASIAirPlus PA routine. Also, I make sure the azimuth locking screws are just tight enough to move the elevation smoothly without causing slippage or too much force. I also make sure to autorefresh and give it a couple of loop cycles to steady out to determine my corrections. Small adjustments are the key as is patience. Once I get the "smiley face" than I don't touch it and proceed with my imaging. This usually gets me within 30" in both RA and DEC. Autoguiding is spot on and the fluctuations in RMS are usually due to atmospheric disturbances. I have the 1st generation AM5 so I think the improvement in azimuth adjustment with the new AM5N should make the process easier and less time consuming. Hope this helps.

Patrick

thanks @Patrick Graham it does ... I also think I need to PA each axis independently (one at a time) and lock it off prior to aligning the other... I also agree that a couple of cycles of the
autofresh is required!

I do wonder if the AM5N has improved this, they certain seem to have changed the AZ "locking" mechanism ...