Cooling Temperature

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WilDrpd avatar
Hello,
I have an ZWO ASI 533MC, what temperature do you use generally to cool the camera ?
thanks
William
andrea tasselli avatar
-10 degC. -20 degC is at risk of frosting the sensor in my usual weather.
WilDrpd avatar
andrea tasselli:
-10 degC. -20 degC is at risk of frosting the sensor in my usual weather.


OK thank you. -5dC is not enough ?
andrea tasselli avatar
-20degC would be better, -10 degC just makes the grade. Noisy sensor.
Phil Creed avatar
I usually do -10°C for most of the year, except 0°C on the warmer summer nights.  Most of the time I can get away with <60% power draw since I live in a northern state.

I've only used -20°C once, and it was so cold outside (-16°C) I really didn't want to be outdoors at all.

As far as I've seen in my images, as long as the set point matches all your calibration frames, you're good to go.

Clear Skies,
Phil
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Eddie Bagwell avatar
I will go as low as my ZWO camera will allow as long as it doesn't exceed 80% power at the start of the session. As the temperature drops during the night, so does the power consumption.

Just watch the sensor reading, it only takes about 3 mins to hit the target temp.

-20C is my norm on cold nights, but I usually raise to -15C, -10C or -5C during the warmer summer nights.

Eddie
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Steve Solon avatar
Hi William,
I live in a dry climate in New Mexico, and use an ASI183MC-Pro. I used to vary the cooling temperature between summer and winter, but now use -15c all year with good results, so that rings true with all the above suggestions of -10 to -20C.
- - Steve
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Geoff avatar
With my FLI 16803 Proline I can manage -30Celsius all year round. Probably excessive but it works.
andrea tasselli avatar
Geoff:
With my FLI 16803 Proline I can manage -30Celsius all year round. Probably excessive but it works.


It needs to, being a CCD. Modern CMOS have no need of massive cooling down to contain thermal noise.
Arun H avatar
Here is Robin Glover's timeless talk on Gain, sub exposure lengths and temperature:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RH93UvP358

Both dark current noise (which depends on sensor temperature) and sky background noise increase with total exposure time. The goal behind setting a certain sensor temperature is to make the dark current noise small with respect to sky background noise - in other words, make sure that sky background noise, which you cannot control, is the dominant noise term  compared to other noise sources such as dark current noise and read noise. 

If you are imaging from a relatively dark site, or doing narrow band, you will certainly benefit from going as cool as you can consistently go. From a relatively light polluted site, there is little or no benefit to deep cooling.
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D. Jung avatar
I do -5c. According to specs that generates 0.001 e/s/px. With a 10 minute exposure that makes 600s * 0.001e/s/p = 0.6 e/p.  At gain 100 i have a full well capacity of ~20ke. That's negligible. If i were to go to -20c i would get 0.06e/p, hooray…
Andre Vilhena avatar
Hi,

There is an ongoing thread with similar question for a ZWO 533, where I replied the following:

"
I usually have a 5 min ramp to cool and to warm the camera. But let me challenge you in one thing: maybe you don't need to cool to negative temperatures, as thermal noise of that camera is quite low. As far as I can see in the website, the thermal noise is as follows:

T (ºC)     DarkCurrent (e/s)    ThermalNoise (e (300sec))
0                    0.00195                               0.765
-10                0.00050                                0.387
-15                0.00025                                0.274

In the last column, you have the thermal noise of a 300 sec exposure.

Depending on the sky you shoot, your shot noise for the same 300 sec exposures (considering a color camera and an F5 telescope) should be:

Bortle                 SkyBack (e/s)                 SkyBack (e (300sec))                 ShotNoise (e )
2                                0.30                                              90                                    9.49
4                                0.57                                             171                                 13.08
6                                3.97                                           1191                                 34.51
8                                8.30                                           2490                                 49.90

Since you add noises using the quadrature rule, and considering the worst case (0ºC), the combined noise is as follows:

Bortle                 ShotNoise (e )               Total Noise (e )
2                                    9.49                             9.52
4                                  13.08                           13.10
6                                  34.51                           34.52
8                                  49.90                           49.90

So, you should be fine shooting at 0º or even a bit higher as it barely contributes to the noise and has several advantages such as less stress on the sensor and lower power consumption.

Just a thought... 

Note: I have assumed an OSC camera with clear filter. Final conclusion may vary according to filters used or mono/OSC.
"

In short, you should compare with the shot noise you'll have at your shooting site but unless you are doing narrowband, it is likely you don't need to cool that much.

André
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D. Jung avatar
Don't forget the camera only has a 14bit ADC. With a 20ke full well, your resolution is 1.4e.
andrea tasselli avatar
D. Jung:
Don't forget the camera only has a 14bit ADC. With a 20ke full well, your resolution is 1.4e.

*
The ASI533MC has a FWC+ of around 50ke-.
D. Jung avatar
andrea tasselli:
D. Jung:
Don't forget the camera only has a 14bit ADC. With a 20ke full well, your resolution is 1.4e.

*
The ASI533MC has a FWC+ of around 50ke-.

*As i wrote, at gain 100 it's 20k 
andrea tasselli avatar
As I wrote?
D. Jung avatar
If you carefully study the graphs (mind the Lin/log scale) you can see that at gain 100 the full well is ~ 20ke (or exactly 2^14 as it is unity gain where you have exactly 1e per adu). If you increase the gain your dynamic range decreases.
andrea tasselli avatar
Below is a comparison between two master dark frames for the 533 colour sensor, each of 180s,  showing the central portion at 1:1 scale. Left is @ -20 degC, right is @ -10 degC:



It is obvious why -20 degC is better than -10 degC.
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Anderl avatar
I would go and set my temperature at -50 if my camera would support it at all times. In the real world i use -10 for the simple reason that i will most likely be able to reach that temp at all days and at any time. 

few weeks back i tried to take my darks at -20 and wasn’t able to reach that temp. 20 degrees in my house are just to much for my camera to get to -20.
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Jim Raskett avatar
I live in the deep southern USA. Very hot and humid summer (most of the year), with cool winters. I run my 533 at 0C in the summer and -10 in the winter.
I really don't like to stress the TEC and I have not found any end result reason to do so. I see little to no difference in the final result running either temperature.

Jim
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Howard Richard avatar
Go with a temperature that you can reach in the summer. I use -10 all year long.