Using RGB or SHO Filters with a OSC camera

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SamMcIver avatar
Current camera is a ZWO ASI533MC Pro and I use it with either an L-Enhance or UV/IR cut filter depending on target.
I am trying to prepare for a move to a mono camera in the next couple of years and am going to purchase an EAF & Filter Wheel but will still be a while away from pulling the trigger on a mono camera.

Does anyone have any experience using an OSC camera with a Ha or Sii filter to enhance those colours in an RGB image? I know there is a lack of data collected when compared with Mono due to the Bayer matrix but my way of thinking is that a little Ha/Sii boost would look good in some images.

Will I be wasting my time?
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Abdul Thomas Jnr avatar
I have a Rasa 8 with Zwo 183mc pro camera. I use the Idas Nbz Uhs filter with it and I'm really happy with results. Going off topic here but when do you use an Uv/Ir block filter and when not to use it? Because I'm thinking about getting one to use with my Rasa but not sure on what targets to use it on. Thanks
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andrea tasselli avatar
I have a Rasa 8 with Zwo 183mc pro camera. I use the Idas Nbz Uhs filter with it and I'm really happy with results. Going off topic here but when do you use an Uv/Ir block filter and when not to use it? Because I'm thinking about getting one to use with my Rasa but not sure on what targets to use it on. Thanks

Any time you want correct star colours and avoid bloating of the same.
Abdul Thomas Jnr avatar
Oh right,thanks
Dale Penkala avatar
I use both the ZWO ASI294MC Pro and 071MC Pro and I used the NBZ filter as @Abdul Thomas mentioned but I also use my Antlia ALP-T again excellent results. Depending on what I’m doing I’ll used all the data for the NB image but other times I’ll extract Ha or Oiii and process them and incorporate it into an RGB image. Plenty of examples on my AB profile.

Dale
andrea tasselli avatar
I don't think that a dual-band filter suitability is the OP question. It is whether a H-alpha filter is useful or not, in view of a future upgrade to mono, with an OSC camera. I'd say in that regard that you have to be extra careful in extracting the data in that case because the G and to a lesser degree the B channels will be "tainted" by red band spill-over. This said you might still get useful data from the R channel but this wouldn't be a wise use of money in my book.
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Dale Penkala avatar
andrea tasselli:
I don't think that a dual-band filter suitability is the OP question. It is whether a H-alpha filter is useful or not, in view of a future upgrade to mono, with an OSC camera. I'd say in that regard that you have to be extra careful in extracting the data in that case because the G and to a lesser degree the B channels will be "tainted" by red band spill-over. This said you might still get useful data from the R channel but this wouldn't be a wise use of money in my book.

Agreed,  At one time I wanted to try that myself and in the end I found the dual narrowband filters to be the most beneficial, so that is why I mentioned the dual band filters. I should have clarified that better.

Dale
Thomas avatar
Hallo Sam,
I do have experience using OSC and Ha.
I understand your motivation. Of course, if you plan to move to mono a dual narrowband wouldn't be a sustainable step.
I currently use the Zwo 2600MC combined with a Chroma 3nm Ha filter with very good results. No problems with Bayer matrix whatsoever. 
In terms of image quality it works perfectly well. It is  lightyears better compared to my Optolong L-enhance. You just have to extract channels after debayering and stacking  and to throw away G and B (they will "seem" to look usuable since they will be boosted by division by the flat. But in reality G and B will only worsen your image). You have to individually go and shoot G and B, just as you would with a mono camera. 
Thomas
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Maciej Karcz avatar
Does anyone have any experience using an OSC camera with a Ha or Sii filter to enhance those colours in an RGB image? I know there is a lack of data collected when compared with Mono due to the Bayer matrix but my way of thinking is that a little Ha/Sii boost would look good in some images.

Will I be wasting my time?

Don't hesitate to jump into narrowband with OSC.  I was worried I'd be limited to wide band with my OSC (2600MC) and started out just using L-Pro and L-enhance filters but made the jump to Antlia ALP-T (5nm H+O) and the new Askar 6nm D1 (H+O) and D2 (S+O) filters and very glad I did.  Just need to ensure you get enough exposures for decent noise performance.

OSC with a H+O filter and S+O filter means you can do SHO palette images: From the integrated H+O image separate the RGB channels: R-> H, G,B-> O1, O2 and then from integrated S+O image separate RGB as: R-> S, G,B->O3, O4, then you make a new RGB image from: S-> R, H->G, O1+O2+O3+O4 -> B.
Getting the stars to look natural though is a separate project though..

It's less efficient than doing mono with dedicated filters but the entry barrier is much smaller and cheaper (just 2 filters vs 5+ filters).  I also plan to move to mono but I just don't get enough clear skies here to be able to shoot with half dozen filters, maybe some day.

A few of the results I've had with OSC and narrowband, not a lot of integration time because the weather where I live just doesn't cooperate, but I'm very satisfied with the ROI.
This was my first attempt at SHO with OSC using H+O and S+O filters, still need to learn how to get the stars to behave:

SHO NGC2244 Rosette Nebula with OSC



Same raw OSC data but this time the H+O and S+O data were combined as they are (no RGB channel mixing)

Rosette Nebula



OSC with just one H+O dual band filter:

NGC 6888 Crescent Nebula with OSC 5nm dual band
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Gary Brown avatar
I'm using narrowband filters with my ASI2600MC Pro camera. I started out with the Optolong L-Pro and L-Extreme filters. My plan has been to eventually get a mono camera but I can't spend $2K for filters and $2.5K for another camera right now. I decided to get the narrowband filters first and use them with my OSC camera.  My first purchase was an SII filter since the L-Extreme doesn't collect SII. That worked fine. I collect SII data and only use the red channel. I next added the Ha and OIII filters. This was motivated by the L-Extreme Ha signal contaminating the green channel on the camera. The camera's green channel QE is 15% at 656nm. When imaging targets with strong Ha signal, I couldn't get clean OIII data with the dual band filter.

I now use narrowband filters with the OSC camera. For Ha and SII I use the red channel. With OIII I add the green and blue channels. I'm very happy with the results. I am collecting data I don't use. The file sizes are big. The processing time in PI is longer. And the overall efficiency of the OSC camera is lower than a mono camera.  But the solution to that is another $2.5K.  

Here is a link to my gallery. Both IC410 and the Rosette Nebula were shot with NB filters, and RGB stars using the L-Pro.

Gary Brown's AstroBin Gallery
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Joe Linington avatar
You can use your single narrowband filters with OSC. You obviously understand the trade offs. But it will allow you to add Sii to your images and maybe fight the moon some with a good Ha filter. Siril and Astro Pixel Processor have very specific processes to best extract narrowband red (Ha or Sii) data from OSC cameras. I know the Siril version will skip the de bayer, extract only the red pixels and then drizzle them in stacking back to the original image size (it just so happens that the red pixels + drizzle is exactly the original image size). This makes a very clean image considering. I believe that the APP Ha extract works the same but I can’t verify that. I use this process with dual narrowband as well and it can reduce some gradients in the Ha channel. Try it with some data you already have or buy an Sii filter and give it a go.
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Blue avatar
I have also used HA and Oiii filters with a on ASI2600mc. The results were quite pleasing. I use Astro Pixel Processor for stacking which has a debayer option to extract NB data from OSC files when you shoot with an NB filter. You can then take those to integrate with the normal OSC data shot with no filter. 

as a test I shot the same target in HA twice when I got my 2600MM. There is no question that the MM data was better but it was not by a huge margin. Mainly the MC shot data was a little noisier.
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SamMcIver avatar
Thomas:
It is  lightyears better compared to my Optolong L-enhance.


Thank you for the response, @Thomas.
I am interested to give it a go, but do understand everyone's encouragement to stick to Dual Narrowband filters such as the Antlia Alp-T etc.
I am curious, though, in what way have you found the Ha option to be lightyears ahead of your L-Enhance?
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SamMcIver avatar
Joe Linington:
Astro Pixel Processor have very specific processes to best extract narrowband red (Ha or Sii) data from OSC cameras

@Joe Linington  Thanks for the response, do you know if there is a similar process within Pixinsight for this? Or is there a way I can use Pixelmath to achieve the same?
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SamMcIver avatar
Blue:
I use Astro Pixel Processor for stacking which has a debayer option to extract NB data from OSC files when you shoot with an NB filter.

@Blue Any idea whether there is a similar process within Pixinsight or a Pixelmath function to achieve the same?

Thanks, BTW.
Blue avatar
Unfortunately I can't help there, I am not a PI user so I do not know if they have any debayer options to extract NB data from OSC cameras used with an NB filter.
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andrea tasselli avatar
You can use the normal reduction procedure and at the end add DrizzleIntegretation with 1x and the CFA option. Then use the R channel as Ha. Or use SplitCFA and use channel 0 for Ha.
Thomas avatar
Thomas:
It is  lightyears better compared to my Optolong L-enhance.


Thank you for the response, @Thomas.
I am interested to give it a go, but do understand everyone's encouragement to stick to Dual Narrowband filters such as the Antlia Alp-T etc.
I am curious, though, in what way have you found the Ha option to be lightyears ahead of your L-Enhance?

The image quality that I could achieve with the 3nm Chroma Ha is way better compared to the Optolong. In terms of contrast, star size and details. On the other hand you only get one channel per image instead of two.
Thomas avatar
Thomas:
It is  lightyears better compared to my Optolong L-enhance.


Thank you for the response, @Thomas.
I am interested to give it a go, but do understand everyone's encouragement to stick to Dual Narrowband filters such as the Antlia Alp-T etc.
I am curious, though, in what way have you found the Ha option to be lightyears ahead of your L-Enhance?

The image quality that I could achieve with the 3nm Chroma Ha is way better compared to the Optolong. In terms of contrast, star size and details. On the other hand you only get one channel per image instead of two.