Building first portable astrophoto setup - Forums

Hello, dear Astrobin users!
My name is George and I am a complete newbie in an astrophotography.
I'm trying to build my first portable setup, and I must say that this hobby is tough even to get into.

But I was dreaming of it since I was 13 , so I'm not going to give up that easily.

I wanted to share my desire- thinking process over building it and get some opinions to improve it.

Things to consider:
1. The setup will be used for astrophotography only, no visual
2. I live in far lands called Armenia, so everything will be purchased online and there is no community here at all. So In future I want to swap equipment as little as possible.
3. I live in a flat which is in the city center, so I will be using this setup during weekend trips to mountains
4. I don't own a car and will have to carry all the stuff either by myself or with just 1 partner
5. It should be as power-independent and upgradeable as possible
6. I already own a good portable laptop
7. Total budget is around 2.5k USD

My current thoughts and equipment choices:
Camera: Nikon D5300 with nightskycamera's H-alpha filter. It's rather cheap, but I saw folks on astrobin having pretty decent results using this one. (200$ camera + 100$ filter + conversion)
Tripod: ZWO TC40 - it has a huge reserve for possible future needs, but still remains light and compact ($300)
Mount: SkyWatcher Star Adventurer GTI (head) - It's light, upgradeable, has latest features and is power-independent (650$)
Telescope: Askar FRA-400 - I want to get petzval to eliminate all backfocus-related issues and flattener / reducer stuff (Was able to find it for 1000$)
+ ~300$ to get all the minor stuff like shutter, led panel for flats, headlamps, dew-heater, SD card, HDD + shipping and customs fees.

My main concern is a payload capacity of a mount. I've read that it's 11 lb, but for astrophotography you don't want it to be fully-loaded.At the same time I saw videos and posts where people load it around 4.2 kg and still get good results.

And the first upgrade I'm planning for the future is ZWO's OAG with focuser + ASI120MM Mini, because as I understood guiding is the most profitable upgrade and abovementioned tools are still light and do not require external power source. Also not having guide scope will let me keep the balance point lower.
In total it should be as heavy (or even tiny bit less) than the setup on astro-backyard channel. which is my main "guide" right now.

I tried my best to gather all possible info but don't judge me too hard if you think I failed, please

I would love to hear your opinion on this setup!
Clear Skies, everyone!

Hello dear neighbor!

I see you've done quite a research already and are on a correct track.

Let me give my opinion and advise:

1. Petzval design is definitely the right choice! Askars are good. William Optics Red Cat series are also very good.
2. ZWO TC40 is indeed an excellent tripod, but it is specifically deisgned for ZWO AM5. I am not sure, you will be able to use anything else on it.
3. You do not really need an OAG for the short focal length telescope. You will be much better off if you invest into ASI120MM Mini and the ZWO F4 guidescope. It is easier to set up and works exceptionally well.
4. Star Adventurer and any other star tracker is meant to be used with a DSLR/mirrorrless with a photolense. Putting even a small telescope on it, with a DSLR and a guide cam will already overload it. Usually you should keep your payload at about 70% of the advertised load capacity of a tracker or a mount, to achieve stable guiding. So, I would strongly suggest that you save up a bit more and buy the ZWO AM5 mount, with its own TC40 tripod. This thing is very compact and light. You can fit it into a backpack with your camera and PC (but it will need to be a bit large backpack). It is a fully functioning Go-To euqatorial mount. Unlike a startracker, it does not require counterweights. Setup takes only few minutes. If you add a small portable power station with 250-300 Wh capacity (something like Jackery 240), you will be able to run all of your equipment for the whole night, with some reserve. Most importantly, it is future-proof: once you outgrow Askar and DSLR and go for something bigger, like a newtonian astrograph and monochrome camera with filterwheel, this mount will still have the payload capacity to spare.

Hope this helps.

Clear skies!

David

Just to give you some input.

For a small, cheap and lightweight setup i would go.

- skywatcher star adventurer pro
- samyang 135 or sigma 180 2.8 macro
- a nikon or canon apsc with good reviews for astro
- no guiding and if you really want guiding, a mini guide scope and a used mgen.
- any stable tripod, your zwo suggestion should be fine
- invest the rest into pixinsight
- if you want a filter get an cheap optolong l enhance as drop in.

i was there and made an upgrade to a big setup.
i really tried to make my little setup work great but i wanted to much from it.
hold things easy and small and you will produce great pictures while still enjoying your hobby.

if you want to spend a little bit more get a tak fs60cb as scope. You could use that for visual as well.

Things i can tell you if you want to enjoy the hobby

1. hold it simple, big and automated produces a lot of frustration on some nights.

2. learn to perfectly polar align by eye !!!

3. a fast widefield lens like the two mentioned above will give you fast results. An f6 or similar apo would greatly benefit from imaging times over 10 hours, which again can be frustrating if you don’t have the time, weather, or the knowledge of the nightsky to frame your target the same over many nights in a row.

3. buy pixinsight.
i got many underwhelming images because i was going with free software to save money. I burned money because i thought i could save money by buying astro pixel processor instead of pixinsight and in the end… i bought pixinsight.
if there still is money left, buy the rc tools like blur x terminator and noise x terminator.

4. the skywatcher gti is nice. But a good polar aligned star adventurer should perform similarly.
what i don’t know is, is the gti able to „go to“ by a hand controller? If not there is no benefit. In my eyes.
leave the notebook at home. Load a good app on your smartphone, one that shows you to night sky and that helps you to frame your target and enjoy.

5. even with more money i would buy the same stuff as mentioned above. At least as long the target still is a mobile lightweight setup. I would maybe change the lens to a sigma 135 or a zeiss milvus 135 but other than that, it is the most enjoyable configuration i can think of.

Hello everyone!
To @David Nozadze :
As far as I can see, there is 3/8" central knob on TC40, so looks like anything can be put on it.
Yeah, I know that maybe I want too much, but here is my motivation behind these choices:
1) I'd love to go for AM5 some day, but the mount head itself is 75% of my total budget that I can't expand, especially that hard.
2) Also any mount that requires additional power adds around 300$ for portable power source and + ~3kg to the setup.

Which looks not that reasonable to me. If I'd have a backyard or a car - no probs, but that's not the case, unfortunately.
I also initially thought of Rokinon 135 F2.0 as everyone suggest, but targets are pretty limited with it and it already costs ~500, so I thought why don't I
I just add 500 more and get a scope that I may not change for years?

To @Andi
Initially I wasn't planning to use guiding, but here is why I ended up thinking of it:

Star Adventurer GTI is an entry-level mount, so it's not that accurate by default and if we add anhything more that ~2kgs it's going to diminish it's returns.
I wanted to equalize tracking inaccuracies caused by some more weight by using guidnig.

GTI has a go-to, but uses wi-fi instead of hand controller.

And also maybe I have not dived deep enough in OAG, but to me it looks like it beats the regular one in every aspect except for complexity of setting it up.
And also that reduces the weight as there is no second scope involved, the OAG itself weighs around ~280g and camera is only 60g and does not require external power source.

Georgii Takhtamyshev:
Hello everyone!
To @David Nozadze :
As far as I can see, there is 3/8" central knob on TC40, so looks like anything can be put on it.
Yeah, I know that maybe I want too much, but here is my motivation behind these choices:
1) I'd love to go for AM5 some day, but the mount head itself is 75% of my total budget that I can't expand, especially that hard.
2) Also any mount that requires additional power adds around 300$ for portable power source and + ~3kg to the setup.

Which looks not that reasonable to me. If I'd have a backyard or a car - no probs, but that's not the case, unfortunately.
I also initially thought of Rokinon 135 F2.0 as everyone suggest, but targets are pretty limited with it and it already costs ~500, so I thought why don't I
I just add 500 more and get a scope that I may not change for years?

In that case, StarAdventirer GTI is the only right choice, since it offers Go-To capability. But keep in mind that you will still need a powerbank for it. That thing eats through the AA batteries veeeery fast, especially in the cold.

Rokinon 135 is indeed a very good piece of glass, but, as you rightly mention, has rather limited use in this hobby. It shoould only be your secondary lense.

D

Georgii Takhtamyshev:
Hello everyone!
To @David Nozadze :
As far as I can see, there is 3/8" central knob on TC40, so looks like anything can be put on it.
Yeah, I know that maybe I want too much, but here is my motivation behind these choices:
1) I'd love to go for AM5 some day, but the mount head itself is 75% of my total budget that I can't expand, especially that hard.
2) Also any mount that requires additional power adds around 300$ for portable power source and + ~3kg to the setup.

Which looks not that reasonable to me. If I'd have a backyard or a car - no probs, but that's not the case, unfortunately.
I also initially thought of Rokinon 135 F2.0 as everyone suggest, but targets are pretty limited with it and it already costs ~500, so I thought why don't I
I just add 500 more and get a scope that I may not change for years?

I can understand your thoughts about the samyang 135, i had the same and put a 300mm lens on my star adventurer.

today i can tell you out of experience that the targets for a 135 lens are endless. Put a fullframe camera behind it and get a wide field. Put a small pixel scale camera behind it (like the asi183mc) and you can get quite a bit of reach.

if you look in my galary you will see that most of my pictures are made with a nikkor 105 1.4.
your refractor will for sure produce nice pictures, but with such a small setup you will, most of the time, just throw away precious time under the few clear nights.

my guess is, that if you buy that refractor that you will maybe successfully image 1/4 of the time you could image with a smaller scope or lens.

speaking out of experience, you will not find your target in the night sky, have problems getting pinpoint stars cause of to bad polar alignment or to high of a weight on your little mount and you will not be happy with the final image you get out of one night of imaging time. As said above, 10hours is a good amount of time to aim for if you don’t have a very fast system.
all these frustrating things will lead you to spend money left and right, fixing things on your setup that really only can get fixed by having a mount with a way higher payload capacity and that 1. kills your budget and 2. just doesn’t is that mobile.

And i really don’t want to kill your plan to get into ap with what i say. It is a great hobby, with great people and lot to learn. Just be aware that what you plan sounds like the abc of how to get frustrated in ap very fast.

Any possibility to join a local astronomy club or rent equipment to check it out for a night or two?

David Nozadze:
In that case, StarAdventirer GTI is the only right choice, since it offers Go-To capability. But keep in mind that you will still need a powerbank for it. That thing eats through the AA batteries veeeery fast, especially in the cold.

Thanks, noted

Any possibility to join a local astronomy club or rent equipment to check it out for a night or two?

I tried to find it, but don't think it exists. I live in a small country in the mountains with 3M population total, so chances are not that high , unfortunately.

Georgii Takhtamyshev:
To @Andi
Initially I wasn't planning to use guiding, but here is why I ended up thinking of it:

Star Adventurer GTI is an entry-level mount, so it's not that accurate by default and if we add anhything more that ~2kgs it's going to diminish it's returns.
I wanted to equalize tracking inaccuracies caused by some more weight by using guidnig.

GTI has a go-to, but uses wi-fi instead of hand controller.

And also maybe I have not dived deep enough in OAG, but to me it looks like it beats the regular one in every aspect except for complexity of setting it up.
And also that reduces the weight as there is no second scope involved, the OAG itself weighs around ~280g and camera is only 60g and does not require external power source.

Sorry to jump in. But I forgot to mention about the OAG in my previous response.

To use OAG, your scope must produce wide-enoough image circle to cover the main sensor and the OAG prism, because the prism needs to stay outside the main sensor's FoV and still be able to see a starfield. Otherwise the prism will cast a shadow on the main sensor.

Also, every time you change focus on the scope for the main sensor, you will also need to refocus the gude-camera through OAG adapter.

Another important point: OAG will add weight behind the focuser and the scope and image train assembly will be harder to balance on the Declination axis (AM5 does not need balancing by the way).

When you use separate guidescope, you just focus it once, lock it and it will stay perfectly focused, unless you drop it. You do not need to worry about the shadows on the main sensor, having sufficient number of guidestars in view etc etc. By the way, ZWO 30mm F4 scope weighs 250 grams ;) Also, it can be mounted closer to the Dec rotation axis and, therefore, balancing will be easier.

D

P.S.
Guide camera does need power. It will be powered from your PC via USB. PC will also need to stay on during the whole session so the guiding software runs the guidecam and the mount and the main camera. So you will still need extra power supply for the PC.

A better choice is to use a mount like the EXOS-2. Get it its barest form and then add OnStep to give it all the required bells and whistles. Apparently they are making those OnStep mount controllers off the shelf in China (check on AliExpress) if don't fancy making one yourself. A 30mm guidescope from the far east is a very easy addition (mine costed less than 40 euros) as replacement of a finder scope and allows freedom from tinkering with the back-end of the scope. Properly set-up this mount will allow larger apertures to be used with much greater usability and success rate.

For a portable setup you want fast, wide and light. The FRA-400 is none of those things. At f/5.6 you are looking at long intégrations, 10 hours or more. With an f/2.8 you can get away with 3 hours. With an APS-C camera 135mm to 200mm will give you a huge range of targets. An controversial but respectable other option is some of the better (newer) 70-200 f/2.8 zooms. There are some great shots here using those and ultimate flexibility plus a rotator included.

I often shoot unguided with fast, wide (300mm fl or less) lenses at about a 1 minute exposure even though I have guiding equipment. It just isn’t worth the complication sometimes. I’ll use my computer to help polar align, slew to and centre the target and then I put it away and use an intervalometer. Less power to carry. A few camera batteries and a medium sized power pack for the mount. If I add guiding I need double the power.

Short focal length lense or scope.
EQ3-EQ5 class mount or skyguider
Dslr ( preferably modded, Nikon or Canon) or uncooled astro cam

you will get many different responses. it's like asking Pepsi or Coke. 9mm or 40cal lol

David Nozadze:
To use OAG, your scope must produce wide-enoough image circle to cover the main sensor and the OAG prism, because the prism needs to stay outside the main sensor's FoV and still be able to see a starfield. Otherwise the prism will cast a shadow on the main sensor.

Also, every time you change focus on the scope for the main sensor, you will also need to refocus the gude-camera through OAG adapter.

Oh, didn't realize that at all, thank you so much for pointing that out.

David Nozadze:
Guide camera does need power. It will be powered from your PC via USB.

Yeah, this one is taken in account, no probs with that

დიდი მადლობა!

andrea tasselli:
A better choice is to use a mount like the EXOS-2. Get it its barest form and then add OnStep to give it all the required bells and whistles. Apparently they are making those OnStep mount controllers off the shelf in China (check on AliExpress) if don't fancy making one yourself. A 30mm guidescope from the far east is a very easy addition (mine costed less than 40 euros) as replacement of a finder scope and allows freedom from tinkering with the back-end of the scope. Properly set-up this mount will allow larger apertures to be used with much greater usability and success rate.

Thanks for your input, will check those out for sure

Joe Linington:
At f/5.6 you are looking at long intégrations, 10 hours or more.

Could you, please, clarify?
I was searching through the pics here and I can't get the pattern, so to say.
There are milky way shots with low focal lengths having 20h of shooting.
And at the same time there are some nebula photos taken with 800mm+ focal length refractors having only 1.5h of total shooting time.
So I'm kind-a confused about whole focal length - shooting time relationship.
I thought that the main thing is F ratio. If it is low (F7 or lower) your scope gathers light slower, so you have to take more shots, which increases the time. And vise-versa.

But looks like I miss something in this equation.

Aris Pope:
you will get many different responses. it's like asking Pepsi or Coke. 9mm or 40cal lol

Ha-ha

Sorry, I didn't mean to start holy wars here

Georgii Takhtamyshev:
David Nozadze:
To use OAG, your scope must produce wide-enoough image circle to cover the main sensor and the OAG prism, because the prism needs to stay outside the main sensor's FoV and still be able to see a starfield. Otherwise the prism will cast a shadow on the main sensor.

Also, every time you change focus on the scope for the main sensor, you will also need to refocus the gude-camera through OAG adapter.

Oh, didn't realize that at all, thank you so much for pointing that out.
David Nozadze:
Guide camera does need power. It will be powered from your PC via USB.

Yeah, this one is taken in account, no probs with that
დიდი მადლობ

Aris Pope:
Georgii Takhtamyshev:
David Nozadze:
To use OAG, your scope must produce wide-enoough image circle to cover the main sensor and the OAG prism, because the prism needs to stay outside the main sensor's FoV and still be able to see a starfield. Otherwise the prism will cast a shadow on the main sensor.

Also, every time you change focus on the scope for the main sensor, you will also need to refocus the gude-camera through OAG adapter.

Oh, didn't realize that at all, thank you so much for pointing that out.
David Nozadze:
Guide camera does need power. It will be powered from your PC via USB.

Yeah, this one is taken in account, no probs with that
დიდი მადლობ

***once you find the correct focus point for the guide camera and the oag in relationship to the main camera you lock down the position of the guide camera. And you don't ever have to change the focus point of the guide camera. I run auto focus numerous times throughout the night and when the main camera achieves perfect focus the guide camera is also in ideal focus. ***

Hi Georgii,

I cannot agree more wholeheartedly with Andi and Joe. For me, portability means simplicity and a 400mm f/5.6 scope will typically require a guider, therefore a larger mount and a computer, therefore a power source and so on and so forth. Anything larger than the RedCat (or equivalent) is a bad idea.

And it is not true the targets are limited. It is just a different target set: There are hundreds of wonderful ultra wide field subjectsup there that would take you months or even years to do with a scope.

Cheers,
Dimitris

Hi Georgii,

I cannot agree more wholeheartedly with Andi and Joe. For me, portability means simplicity and a 400mm f/5.6 scope will typically require a guider, therefore a larger mount and a computer, therefore a power source and so on and so forth. Anything larger than the RedCat (or equivalent) is a bad idea.

And it is not true the targets are limited. It is just a different target set: There are hundreds of wonderful ultra wide field subjectsup there that would take you months or even years to do with a scope.

Cheers,
Dimitris

Thanks for your input, noted

Well, looks like FRA-400 is really too big for the setup.
Now I start leaning towards the RedCat51.

The amount of integration depends on a ton of factors but the main ones are focal ratio (f/), how dark your skies are, and how dim the object is. There are many other factors to consider like pixel size, pixel ratio and quantum efficiency but you get that with some experience. The smaller the f/# the faster the scope is. It's not linear either. An f/4 scope will need half the time as an f/5.6 scope. An f/2.8 needs half the time of an f/4 etc.

As an example, under my bortle 5/6 skies with my f/4.5 76mm scope, my camera with 4.88um pixels needs about 7 hours to make a decent image, my other sensor with 3.9um pixels needs 8 or more hours. But a short drive to darker skies can reduce that by 2-3 hours. And even that isn't exact. For dim objects or to really catch dust I need a lot more.

To get a good image in 1 night (4-5 hours) requires dark skies (decent bortle 4 or less) and faster scopes/lenses. f/5 would be my personal minimum for such a setup but I would also consider fast lenses that are proven.

What advantages does wide fast optics have;
-Less need to guide (no need)
-Lighter to carry
-Lighter (cheaper) mount
-If your rig is fast enough to complete an image in 1 night you can ditch the computer (you don't need to repeat your framing) which can reduce your power consumption and you can carry less battery.

Joe Linington:
The amount of integration depends on a ton of factors but the main ones are focal ratio (f/), how dark your skies are, and how dim the object is. There are many other factors to consider like pixel size, pixel ratio and quantum efficiency but you get that with some experience. The smaller the f/# the faster the scope is. It's not linear either. An f/4 scope will need half the time as an f/5.6 scope. An f/2.8 needs half the time of an f/4 etc.

As an example, under my bortle 5/6 skies with my f/4.5 76mm scope, my camera with 4.88um pixels needs about 7 hours to make a decent image, my other sensor with 3.9um pixels needs 8 or more hours. But a short drive to darker skies can reduce that by 2-3 hours. And even that isn't exact. For dim objects or to really catch dust I need a lot more.

To get a good image in 1 night (4-5 hours) requires dark skies (decent bortle 4 or less) and faster scopes/lenses. f/5 would be my personal minimum for such a setup but I would also consider fast lenses that are proven.

What advantages does wide fast optics have;
-Less need to guide (no need)
-Lighter to carry
-Lighter (cheaper) mount
-If your rig is fast enough to complete an image in 1 night you can ditch the computer (you don't need to repeat your framing) which can reduce your power consumption and you can carry less battery.

Thanks a lot for such a detailed response.
I certainly need to dive deeper

Do you think that RedCat 51 will be a good choice then?

I know people who have tried to make the FRA400 go with the AZ-GTI (which is slightly better than the Star Adventurer) and failed.
Or rather, they failed to achieve good results but only mediocre ones.
Rather take a small used CEM25, around 600-700 dollars you take it and it's a completely different thing.