Esprit, how do you rotate? - Forums

Topic starter

Jan 30, 2023

How do you rotate for best framing? the captains wheel or the one near the camera?

Im using the one near the camera but i find it hard to find a good grip around the rotation rings.. any tips?

Miguel G.

Jan 30, 2023

Hi,

I use the same method. Not the best one, but definitely better than touching the captain wheel.
I'm considering to purchase the falcon rotator. Probably I will go that way.

m

rhedden

Jan 30, 2023 · Edited: Jan 30, 2023

I don't rotate my Esprit 100ED at all. I found that the black rings have got to be 100% completely snug and screwed in tight, or else I run into weird tilt problems that are hard to address. The location of the black rings may become a point of flexure if they are not tightened all the way. Has anyone else made this observation?

My camera rotation has been fixed for something like 12 months. If I need to rotate the camera, I rotate the actual camera where it connects to the filter wheel. Since I have a QHY filter wheel to which the camera is bolted, I have limited freedom with rotation. The filter wheel needs to be opened up to remove bolts between projects. It's not an ideal situation at all, but it's better than fighting with tilt adjustments or sag every time I alter the rotation.

Edited to add: I have a Gerd Neumann CTU in my imaging train, so there is no room left for a rotator or an OAG.

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luter68

Jan 30, 2023 · Edited: Jan 30, 2023

I have the 80ED and with its silly foot and short tube the captain wheel is out of question else the focused knobs interfere with the mount, so I use the ring closer to the camera.
Now that I write this, I guess I could use the captain wheel to have the focused upside down which would give margins.
It would be aesthetically a bit ugly but maybe worth considering.
An advantage in using the CP wheels is that you may not need new flats if you rotate during one session…

EDIT: quickly realized that rotating the focuser upside-down makes awkward reading the focuser scale… not such a great idea😞

Matthew Sole

Jan 30, 2023

I used to rotate via the black rings on the focuser tube too but like has been mentioned above, this caused inconsistent tilt and sag. When the rings are considerably tight, I could still slide them past each other noticeably affecting the angle of the imaging train beyond these rings.

To prevent this, I purchased the Falcon Rotator. I use a QHY camera so it was easy enough to buy a few sub-millimeter spacers to get the right back-focus with the Falcon in place. However the Falcon itself is capable of flexing under the weight of a modest imaging train (I have a mono camera with FW). Not significantly, but if you are buying one to reduce the potential of inducing tilt from manually rotating, this is something to consider.

So, I've now got the Primaluce Lab Esatto Focuser and the Arco rotator. I now consider my Esprit a true astrograph. I've never been able to achieve such a flat field as I have with the Esatto and Arco. No discernable tilt anymore.

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Michael Ring

Jan 30, 2023

I do own an 80ED and removed the braindead foot and bought a set of Tube Rings. As there was no perfect match I 3d printed small adapters, works perfectly, the Telescope is held securely.

luter68

Jan 30, 2023

Michael Ring:
I do own an 80ED and removed the braindead foot and bought a set of Tube Rings. As there was no perfect match I 3d printed small adapters, works perfectly, the Telescope is held securely.

Looks great! Very good idea about the spacers. May I ask which rings did you get and what material you used for the spacers?

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Miguel G.

Jan 30, 2023

Matthew Sole:
I used to rotate via the black rings on the focuser tube too but like has been mentioned above, this caused inconsistent tilt and sag. When the rings are considerably tight, I could still slide them past each other noticeably affecting the angle of the imaging train beyond these rings.

To prevent this, I purchased the Falcon Rotator. I use a QHY camera so it was easy enough to buy a few sub-millimeter spacers to get the right back-focus with the Falcon in place. However the Falcon itself is capable of flexing under the weight of a modest imaging train (I have a mono camera with FW). Not significantly, but if you are buying one to reduce the potential of inducing tilt from manually rotating, this is something to consider.

So, I've now got the Primaluce Lab Esatto Focuser and the Arco rotator. I now consider my Esprit a true astrograph. I've never been able to achieve such a flat field as I have with the Esatto and Arco. No discernable tilt anymore.

I'm very interested on the falcon. Could you please share further your experience? How is your optical train? Mine is qhy268m+qhycfw+qhyoag+flattener. Don't you recommend such rotator?

Michael Ring

Jan 30, 2023

I think I bought those:
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3282_TS-Optics-CNC-Alu-Rohrschellen-fuer-Teleskope-mit-105-mm-Durchmesser.html
but any Tube Ring greater than 101mm will work when you have access to a 3d printer for printing the adapter. I used PLA to print.

luter68

Jan 30, 2023 · Edited: Jan 30, 2023

Thank you! The 101 rings from Primaluca are a factor two more expensive!

Matthew Sole

Jan 31, 2023

Miguel G.:
Matthew Sole:
I used to rotate via the black rings on the focuser tube too but like has been mentioned above, this caused inconsistent tilt and sag. When the rings are considerably tight, I could still slide them past each other noticeably affecting the angle of the imaging train beyond these rings.

To prevent this, I purchased the Falcon Rotator. I use a QHY camera so it was easy enough to buy a few sub-millimeter spacers to get the right back-focus with the Falcon in place. However the Falcon itself is capable of flexing under the weight of a modest imaging train (I have a mono camera with FW). Not significantly, but if you are buying one to reduce the potential of inducing tilt from manually rotating, this is something to consider.

So, I've now got the Primaluce Lab Esatto Focuser and the Arco rotator. I now consider my Esprit a true astrograph. I've never been able to achieve such a flat field as I have with the Esatto and Arco. No discernable tilt anymore.

I'm very interested on the falcon. Could you please share further your experience? How is your optical train? Mine is qhy268m+qhycfw+qhyoag+flattener. Don't you recommend such rotator?

Hi Miguel,

Your optical train is the same as mine by the looks of it - 268m, CFW3M-US, and OAG. I think if you want a standalone rotator then the Falcon is a fine choice.
I was still battling tilt when I had the Falcon in my imaging train and trying to rule possibilities out, I noticed I could cause the walls of the rotator to flex under not much finger pressure on my camera. Heavier imaging trains would suffer much more from this, and I think there was only a very small amount of tilt introduced from the weight of my camera. It's a fair compromise for a rotator that only wights 700g I think. I especially liked that I could use the Falcon on my Quattro as well.

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luter68

Jan 31, 2023

Michael Ring:
I think I bought those:
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3282_TS-Optics-CNC-Alu-Rohrschellen-fuer-Teleskope-mit-105-mm-Durchmesser.html
but any Tube Ring greater than 101mm will work when you have access to a 3d printer for printing the adapter. I used PLA to print.

Last question. I suppose you will need spacers between the rings and the mounting plate. Have made also those out of PLA?

Michael Ring

Jan 31, 2023

Yes, they are also made from PLA, the screws that go through them give all the needed stability.

Tom H

Feb 3, 2023

I just purchased a falcon rotator for my Esprit 100 ED and QHY268M so I'm interested how well it works. Hopefully, there won't be too much tilt or flexture.

Miguel G.

Feb 3, 2023

Tom H:
I just purchased a falcon rotator for my Esprit 100 ED and QHY268M so I'm interested how well it works. Hopefully, there won't be too much tilt or flexture.

* could you please describe your optical train?

luter68

Apr 29, 2023

Michael Ring:
I do own an 80ED and removed the braindead foot and bought a set of Tube Rings. As there was no perfect match I 3d printed small adapters, works perfectly, the Telescope is held securely.

Looks great! Very good idea about the spacers. May I ask which rings did you get and what material you used for the spacers?

I have found the rings and the spacers but I am scratching my head with a suitable dovetail plate. It should be metric (60 mm holes distance for each ring) and 80-90 mm distance between rings. Vendors have often no clear description of the layout of the plates… may I ask you where did you get yours?

Michael Ring

Apr 29, 2023

Here's the link:
https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p6407_TS-Optics-Prismenschiene---Losmandy-Level--ebene-Auflage--Laenge-180-mm.html

luter68

Apr 29, 2023

Thank you. Interesting! I actually have the longer version of this and what I see is that the pairs 60mm apart are those against (sone in the middle of) the walls in the bottom side. There is no place for screws heads. Or are you just mounting using the ring central hole (that is using one screw per ring?

Christian Koll

Apr 29, 2023 · Edited: Apr 29, 2023

Hello,

I use the dovetail adapter that came with my QHY600 to rotate the camera.

CS
Chris

Michael Ring

Apr 29, 2023

Correct, I am only using the central holes which is absolutely enough. I now remember that I did a little cosmetics on the rail....

Here's a picture of the bottom of the plate, I used the central hole to have a better balance of the scope and opened it up so that the screw head does not block the movement of the rail.
But it will also work to use the 2 long slots, I have 'simulated' this in photoshop, the fit should be tight but it should work just fine.

luter68

Apr 29, 2023

Thank you. Using the long slots it is I actually now mount the scope. By bolting it to the losmandy dovetail. So, indeed, I can mount the rings the same way. Finally, with rings, I’ll have space on the top to mount the mini PC. This was very helpful. Thanks again!

Jan Erik Vallestad

Aug 28, 2023

I don't rotate my Esprit 100ED at all. I found that the black rings have got to be 100% completely snug and screwed in tight, or else I run into weird tilt problems that are hard to address. The location of the black rings may become a point of flexure if they are not tightened all the way. Has anyone else made this observation?

My camera rotation has been fixed for something like 12 months. If I need to rotate the camera, I rotate the actual camera where it connects to the filter wheel. Since I have a QHY filter wheel to which the camera is bolted, I have limited freedom with rotation. The filter wheel needs to be opened up to remove bolts between projects. It's not an ideal situation at all, but it's better than fighting with tilt adjustments or sag every time I alter the rotation.

Edited to add: I have a Gerd Neumann CTU in my imaging train, so there is no room left for a rotator or an OAG.

Came across your post about the rotator rings which I have been fiddling with. It just so happens that I have seen some problems with tilt myself, see: https://www.astrobin.com/forum/c/group-forums/skywatcher-esprit/esprit-100ed-tilt/

I did intend to tighten them back into the original position but I don't think I tightened them up entirely. Do the images in my post seem similar to what you saw? My scope was shipped from FLO, checked & tuned.

Roland Gooday

Oct 13, 2024 · Edited: Oct 13, 2024

Hi. for anyone that has stumbled across this thread and is thinking about purchasing the Falcon V2 rotator I thought it might be useful to describe the working image train on my Esprit 120.

I have the stock flattener and use a small ZWO OAG and manual filter drawer with the stock Esprit DSLR adapter to get me to precisely 75mm back focus.

The key thing to know about the rotator is that you can put it in to your optical train *before* the flattener., so no need to worry about back focus constraints

Another key thing to know is which adapters to use, as the Pegasus adapters are quite expensive and I ended up getting one more than I should have. It's important to mention here that the Esprit 120 field flattener has a different size camera-side thread than the 100 Esprit => if you own the 120, do not get the M66FM54M adapter - the camera side opening on the 120 flattener is actually M65, not M66 as it is for the 100 flattener

Connect the M74 focus tube directly to the rotator using the rotator's M54 step down adapters - the rotator comes with some M54 adapters that give an M54 female connection on both sides (the focuser opening is M65F on both sides without them).

Drawtube -> rotator: M74 Female to M54 Male
Rotator->flattener: M54 Male to M65 Male

With an IMX571 based camera (crop frame), I don't see any additional vignetting at all (there is little to none). You'll need to move the focus tube inwards approx 18mm, which is not a bad thing, given that the focus tube is out beyond 7 cm with the standard setup.

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Ed Defesche

Oct 26, 2024

I did fasten the two black rings on my Esprit VERY tight,
Result: no way to unlock them whatever I tried, I could not not get them loose anymore also not with the tools adviced for camerathreads.
At last I placed a manual Artesky rotator and now I can rotate my camera again and it works great for me

Michael Southam

Nov 18, 2024

I use the 2 large rings closest to the focusser to rotate the camera. This seems to be what these rings are for and I'm not sure I have any other viable option.