I don't know what to do. Buy a dedicated camera or telescope to improve my actual equipment?

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Tomás Andonie avatar
Hello all!
Hi, after a long time saving, I put together a good amount and I am looking and investigating to see what I can buy. There are thousands of options out there and I'm not very informed on the subject of dedicated cameras, that's why I'm asking you.

My actual gear is:
  • Nikon D3300
  • Nikon 55-300mm lens
  • SkyWatcher StarAdventurer 2i
  • Optolong L-Enhance 2"

I only do deep space photography, emission nebulae mostly through the filter, but when I can travel to darker skies, I try other nebulae and galaxies.

My main question is, which of these two gears would benefit me the most first?
the ZWO ASI585MC Color Camera, or the SharpStar 61EDPH II lens with his flattening reducer.

My second question is whether this camera will really bring me any noticeable increase in my photos compared to the Nikon.
because on the page it says that it is for planetary photography, but I have seen people who use it for deep space. (although checking in astrobin, there are almost no photos of people using that camera for nebulae) DSO Cooled Cameras are extremely expensive, that's why I don't consider them within my budget.although if this camera is an almost unnecessary expense, then I would wait a year or 2 to save for a Cooled Camera.

Any advice, help or recommendation is extremely welcome, since in the next month I will decide what to buy. Thank you all!!
andrea tasselli avatar
Of the two, the mini-scope will benefit you the most. I'd add a Nikon D5300 if you can find one used within your budget and maybe have it modified. If the D3300 is modified already then stick with it until funds will be enough to buy a dedicted cooled astro-camera. Don't waste your time/money with the ASI585.
Christian Koll avatar
I second that  - Go for a scope first!

cs
chris
Rafael Amarins avatar
You'll benefit from either one of these. I'm not sure which version is this 55-300 lens but upgrading to a triplet refractor telescope will change the game.
Renan Milnitsky avatar
I wouldn't spend money on any other camera that wasnt a DSO cooled camera, these non-cooled camera will not perform any better than your Nikon! Having said that, I would choose the scope upgrade. I dont know if your camera is astro-modified, but its another step that you should consider before enter in the dedicated cooled astro-camera.

In early 2022 I had the same question: buy a new camera or a new telescope? At the time I had a Canon t5i and decided to go for the telescope and I think it was the best decision I made. You can achieve better images without having to reorganize your workflow. DSO cameras change the entire capture workflow when compared to DSLR. They demand learning time as they deal with a new learning curve, new capture software, among other things.

Six months after acquiring the scope I decided to buy the dedicated cooled chamber and managed to get even more out of the telescope, I believe I'm still trying to get the most out of it!

Hope it helps!

Clear skies.
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jimwgram avatar
As everyone has pointed out, given the options you are looking at, the scope makes the most sense. 

From your question and from your profile, I see that you are using the DSLR on a star tracker mount without a scope (just the Nikkor AF-S DX 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR zoom lens).  If you get the camera, what would you attach it to?  Although it is technically possible to attach a ZWO camera to a DSLR lens if you can find the right adapter, the result will likely be hard to use (you'll need some way to attach it to the mount, and I suspect focusing will be difficult). 

The 61EDPH II f/5.5 Triplet APO Refractor + flattener/reducer will run upwards of $700 here in the US.  You could pick up a ZWO ASI183MC Pro Cooled Color for just a little more than that, but without a scope, what would you do with it? 

Depending on your commitment to the hobby, it's good to have a plan for gradual upgrades as you can save up more money.  From your gallery, it seems like you have caught the fever, so I suspect you will want to keep investing in the hobby!  As others have pointed out, you will eventually want a cooled dedicated astro camera if you want to take your imaging to the next level, so it doesn't really make sense to spend money on an inferior camera right now.  Unless you are exclusively interested in wide field imaging, the other thing you will eventually need/want is a better equatorial mount with go-to capabilities.  If you were here in the US, I'd suggest that you consider buying used (CN, Astromart, ebay) – sometimes you can find good deals for entry-level stuff – but I don't know how available used equipment is in Chile, or if that's an option at all.  

Good luck and clear skies! (Sorry to hear that you are in Chile but in a bortle 7.5 zone!  At least you don't have to go too far I guess for some seriously clear skies!)
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Dan H. M. avatar
Have you modified your DSLR or considered doing so? Your pictures are very good, especially for your modest setup. I do not think your pictures would improve with an entry-level refractor.
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Coolhandjo avatar
Well I would go the 533. To be honest people think a triplet is going to perform better than a doublet. But the reality is both perform well if you know how to pair them with the right cam. The 533 um pixel size with ed72 will work if you drizzle. True you will get tighter stars with triplet but you'll need to track and guide just the same or they will blow out and you'll struggle to see the difference. A 533 cooled is going to give you a whole new perspective on asyrophotography as it will look and feel different to a dslr. I would master that first and then upgrade my scope later.
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jimwgram avatar
Coolhandjo:
Well I would go the 533. To be honest people think a triplet is going to perform better than a doublet. But the reality is both perform well if you know how to pair them with the right cam. The 533 um pixel size with ed72 will work if you drizzle. True you will get tighter stars with triplet but you'll need to track and guide just the same or they will blow out and you'll struggle to see the difference. A 533 cooled is going to give you a whole new perspective on asyrophotography as it will look and feel different to a dslr. I would master that first and then upgrade my scope later.

Tomas didn't mention the ASI533MC Pro as an option -- seems it might be out of his budget range.  If he already owned a doublet to use with a camera, I would definitely say that he should save up a little longer and go for a cooled camera such as the 533.   As it stands, I think it makes more sense to get a telescope first (instead of just a zoom lens).  Agree that it doesn't need to be a triplet necessarily -- could go for a cheaper doublet to start with and begin saving money now for a camera.
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Rafael Amarins avatar
Coolhandjo:
Well I would go the 533. To be honest people think a triplet is going to perform better than a doublet. But the reality is both perform well if you know how to pair them with the right cam. The 533 um pixel size with ed72 will work if you drizzle. True you will get tighter stars with triplet but you'll need to track and guide just the same or they will blow out and you'll struggle to see the difference. A 533 cooled is going to give you a whole new perspective on asyrophotography as it will look and feel different to a dslr. I would master that first and then upgrade my scope later.

I don't think the doublet and the triplet should have the same level of performance when using color cameras. In my experience the doublet even apo doublet gave me slightly more bloated stars when compared to the triplet, same with color correction - the triplet gave me better results. 
I think he can get away with the DSLR but for now should have better optics and mechanics. I know how crazy it is to go from a DSLR to a coolled camera specially on a hot climate but that will happen eventually.
Marcelof avatar
I think you are forgetting the most important piece of equipment in AP: The mount.

If you really want to improve in AP, especially for DSO images, sooner rather than later you will need an equatorial mount. At the moment good options, depending on budget, are between Skywatcher and Ioptron.
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Brian Puhl avatar
If I were to pick between the two, I'd go for your scope first, especially with a good reducer.  You're going to be quickly pushing the limits of your star adventurer, weight capacity and tracking accuracy.

I will echo Marcelof's comment about getting a mount.   I would start saving now.   The mount is the number one key to success in this hobby.  Without a good one, you wont go far.      I will also say, this hobby is not cheap, at all.  I started in roughly August of last year…. I thought I was gonna be like you, slowly upgrade as I go.  I realized very quickly the limitations of this 'cheaper' equipment that I started out with.    You get what you pay for.   I ended up going ham and purchased a full AP setup with no holds barred.

Get the Sharpstar if you want it…   make sure you get a reducer.  

Next step is I would save for a mount.  Skywatcher mounts are a pretty popular go to.  Things like EQM-35 and EQ6R Pro are the most popular ones.   

From there work on your dedicated camera.     Don't get the 585.    As cool as it sounds, it's not a deep space camera.    You make not understand this now, but you will later.  Trust us.    I would suggest a 533 camera….and I would also highly suggest you go mono.   If you plan on imaging from your bortle 7 zone, you won't go far with color.    You could also consider a 294M, many folks are offloading these cameras right now as they're upgrading, but it's really not a bad camera.    

There are other pieces to go along with this equation like a guide camera, guide scope, filters, etc…  they easily add up the cost too, so don't forget them.


If these prices are out of your range, stay wide field.    Stick with your sharpstar, save up for the camera, and later on down the road you can look into a real mount.    The longer your focal range gets, the more exponential the cost becomes.
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Markus A. R. Langlotz avatar
Maybe, as you do not want to change the star tracker, which is not really the first chocie for a telescope, you could invest into a 200mm f/2.8 or 300mm f/4 telephoto lens. If you buy a good 300 f/4, for example, this will be heads on with a small refractor but has the faster f/ratio. And in addition, you can use it for daylight photography as well.
Your current 55-300 telephoto lens is a budget zoom kit lens with - to be honest - mediocre image quality.

That, for example, is M31, taken with my SMC Pentax DA* 300mm f/4 ED [IF] SDM at full aperture of f/4:

https://www.astrobin.com/xfjvyx/B/?nc=&nce=

CS 

Markus
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andrea tasselli avatar
Markus A. R. Langlotz:
Maybe, as you do not want to change the star tracker, which is not really the first chocie for a telescope, you could invest into a 200mm f/2.8 or 300mm f/4 telephoto lens. If you buy a good 300 f/4, for example, this will be heads on with a small refractor but has the faster f/ratio. And in addition, you can use it for daylight photography as well.
Your current 55-300 telephoto lens is a budget zoom kit lens with - to be honest - mediocre image quality.

That, for example, is M31, taken with my SMC Pentax DA* 300mm f/4 ED [IF] SDM at full aperture of f/4:

https://www.astrobin.com/xfjvyx/B/?nc=&nce=

CS 

Markus

***
Pentax lens are indeed very good as their refractors once were. Sadly, they won't fit on a Nikon. This said a good 200mm or a 300mm lens would work very well and do double duty with daytime work too.