Update on ZWO AM5 Mount

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Jerry Gerber avatar
After taking the mount out around 6 times now, I am getting to know it.   The guiding is good, last night I was getting, in Bortle 7 average seeing skies, between .3" and .6" on each axis.   Polar alignment is easy with the ASIAIR Plus.

One issue I'd like to let others know about:
Even though the AM5 has a DC output port to power the ASIAIR or other device, it really doesn't generate enough power to run a camera and two dew heaters.

Better to plug the ASIAIR or whatever device you use directly into your battery pack, that solves that issue.

I hope ZWO comes up with a firmware update to increase the amperage a bit so that the DC output port can actually be utilized.  Otherwise very happy with tmount, it's so easy to carry!

Jerry
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wsg avatar
Jerry, the Air Plus can easily power 2 dew heaters and the mount.  Any cooled ZWO camera needs it's own power supply.
The Air Plus is the intended power hub, not the AM5.


https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asi2600mc-pro-color
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Jerry Gerber avatar
Jerry, the Air Plus can easily power 2 dew heaters and the mount.  Any cooled ZWO camera needs it's own power supply.
The Air Plus is the intended power hub, not the AM5.


https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asi2600mc-pro-color

I tested today with just the dew heaters powered by the air plus and the air plus directly powered by a robust 12v battery (537 wh) rather than the AM5; it works fine.

ZWO cautions against powering the mount directly from the Air Plus-- It's in the Air Pro manual on page 5.  Unfortunately, there is no air plus manual, so this might be outdated information.  The air pro IS designed to power cooled cameras, that's why the choice is there under Power Management in the air plus version 2 app.   I'm not sure where you're getting this information from.  Again, See page 5 in air pro manual.

I will try again soon to power the camera and 2 dew heaters through the air plus with the air plus powered by the portable battery.    I bet it works better than powering air plus through the am5's dc output port.  Will report back soon.

ZWO is apparently giving contradictory information.  The link you posted above says the opposite of what the manual says.
wsg avatar
I tested today with just the dew heaters powered by the air plus and the air plus directly powered by a robust 12v battery (537 wh) rather than the AM5; it works fine.
Jerry Gerber avatar
When I power air plus through the am5's dc output, I don't get enough power to heat 2 dew heaters and a cooled camera  But when I power the air plus direcctly through a 12V 537  portable battery pack, it's fine. 

The #3 and #4 air plus dc outputs show less than .5 v each when powering through the am5, but when powering it with battery pack all 4 air plus dc output ports show 12v.  

I've tried this with 2 air plus's and I get same results.  I am not going to use the am5 dc output port for now.
Trevor Bray avatar
I have only had am5 out twice and agree when powering aap from am5 I too had power issues causing camera to drop.  I then ran all power through Pegasus micro and no issues.  Total amps for mount, 2 dew heaters, aap, 2600mc, 174mm, eaf never over 10.
Jerry Gerber avatar
Trevor Bray:
I have only had am5 out twice and agree when powering aap from am5 I too had power issues causing camera to drop.  I then ran all power through Pegasus micro and no issues.  Total amps for mount, 2 dew heaters, aap, 2600mc, 174mm, eaf never over 10.

My experience too.  Plug air plus directly into your 12V power source and it will be able to power everything (except the mount of course, that also goes directly into the battery pack.)
Trevor Bray avatar
As usual with new equipment the weather has not been kind.  Only able to use am5 on 3 nights for limited time. But wow! The results are looking very promising.  From a convenience factor alone it’s a game changer when compared to standard eq mounts that can handle a payload.  I have high hopes for the am5 and looking forward to more use!  Enjoy and happy holidays to all.
Dan H. M. avatar
What scopes are y'all using with it?  Curious to hear how it compares to the Rainbow mounts for medium-weight payloads.
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Trevor Bray avatar
I currently have WO Flt 91 when time allows going to mount At130edt and check stability and performance.  I just got the 91 will have to get total weight but should be around 15 to 16 lbs.
Phil Hoppes avatar
I don't know what you are powering your setup with but I use a Jackery 300.  I power the AM5 which then powers my AA+.  On my AA+ I have two modest dew heaters for my RedCat51 and the smaller 32mm Guide scope.  I image with an ASI533MC which is a cooled camera that I always cool to -10C.  I live in Az so I don't have to run my dew heaters hard, about 40% works fine.  All of that runs off my Jackery with no issues what so ever.  I just ran a session two nights ago and I imaged for about 7.5 hours.  My Jackery started at 100% and finished at just over 50%.  If your power supply is just at 12v or perhaps a tad lower to begin with that may be the issue.  I don't doubt you are obviously seeing what you are seeing, it is just that others can make it all work.  I think the root cause is the robustness and current capability of your power source.
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Trevor Bray avatar
I’m running mine from a standard wall outlet 120v.  It’s only an issue when trying to run everything from am5 output through ASIAIR.  Have tried twice and both same result others reporting same.  Not a big deal to run Pegasus power box or separate the mount from others.  

Question does your 300 last through the night? Have been looking at the 500.
Phil Hoppes avatar
Trevor Bray:
I’m running mine from a standard wall outlet 120v.  It’s only an issue when trying to run everything from am5 output through ASIAIR.  Have tried twice and both same result others reporting same.  Not a big deal to run Pegasus power box or separate the mount from others.  

Question does your 300 last through the night? Have been looking at the 500.

Well, I just said, I imaged for 7.5hrs two days ago running the following on my Jackery 300:

AM5
AA+
ASI533MC cooled to -10C
ASI290MM Mini Guide Camera
Pegasus 2 channel Dew Controller fed from the AA+ port (I know I could bypass this but did not realize that until after I had purchased this controller)
1-4" Astrozap Dew Heater @40%
1-6" Astrozap Dew Heater @40%

On my setup my Jackery 300 feeds my AM5.  The power output port then feeds the AA+ which powers everything else.  The AM5 output port is mislabeled I might add.  ZWO has confirmed the output rating of the 12V is 5A not 3A as printed on the AM5 housing.  On my 7.5hr session I started at 100% and ended at exactly 58%.  With my setup I could support all of that with my 300 with, IMHO, plenty of headroom for aging, etc.

I have two other piers in my back yard that are permanent.  Those are much larger setups.  One setup has my Lunt LS80MT on a EQ6R-Pro for solar imaging and the other has a C14 Edge, Vixen ED103S, AP1600 mount.  To run both of these I use a Jackery 1000.
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Jerry Gerber avatar
Phil Hoppes:
Trevor Bray:
I’m running mine from a standard wall outlet 120v.  It’s only an issue when trying to run everything from am5 output through ASIAIR.  Have tried twice and both same result others reporting same.  Not a big deal to run Pegasus power box or separate the mount from others.  

Question does your 300 last through the night? Have been looking at the 500.

Well, I just said, I imaged for 7.5hrs two days ago running the following on my Jackery 300:

AM5
AA+
ASI533MC cooled to -10C
Pegasus 2 channel Dew Controller fed from the AA+ port (I know I could bypass this but did not realize that until after I had purchased this controller)
1-4" Astrozap Dew Heater @40%
1-6" Astrozap Dew Heater @40%

On my setup my Jackery 300 feeds my AM5.  The power output port then feeds the AA+ which powers everything else.  The AM5 output port is mislabeled I might add.  ZWO has confirmed the output rating of the 12V is 5A not 3A as printed on the AM5 housing.  On my 7.5hr session I started at 100% and ended at exactly 58%.  With my setup I could support all of that with my 300 with, IMHO, plenty of headroom for aging, etc.

I have two other piers in my back yard that are permanent.  Those are much larger setups.  One setup has my Lunt LS80MT on a EQ6R-Pro for solar imaging and the other has a C14 Edge, Vixen ED103S, AP1600 mount.  To run both of these I use a Jackery 1000.

I'm running all power with a Bluetti EB55, 700 watts, 537 watt-hours. It can run from 100% charge the AM5, AirPlus, cooled asi2600, 2 dew heaters and an asi290 guide camera for about 5 hours before reaching about 50% full.

The problem is definitely not the battery. 

Check your power management settings on the air plus, specifically DC output ports 3 and 4, when the air plus is plugged into the AM5 dc output port. Mine show extremely low voltage, about point 5V, less than 1V. When the air plus is plugged directly into the Bluetti battery, its output ports 3 and 4 report 12V, as expected. This check must be done when the ports are on and set to "other". 

Let me know what voltage you're getting. 

Perhaps some AM5 mounts are not generating the same amount of power as are others. 

In any event, plugging the air plus into the battery pack works fine.
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Phil Hoppes avatar
I plan on shooting M42 tonight, assuming no clouds.  I'll take a look with my DVM and see what the port voltages I see on my AA+.  I agree you should not be seeing the voltages that low.  Just a quick check, are you sure all of your DC cables have a center fit of 2.1mm and NOT 2.5mm.  I made this mistake as I did not realize there were 2 sizes for 12Vdc cables.  If you use a female connector with a 2.5mm socket and you plug that into a 2.1mm male connector the central connection is not tight.  It can make the connection but could be either resistive or intermittent.  Just another thing to possibly check.
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Jerry Gerber avatar
Phil Hoppes:
I plan on shooting M42 tonight, assuming no clouds.  I'll take a look with my DVM and see what the port voltages I see on my AA+.  I agree you should not be seeing the voltages that low.  Just a quick check, are you sure all of your DC cables have a center fit of 2.1mm and NOT 2.5mm.  I made this mistake as I did not realize there were 2 sizes for 12Vdc cables.  If you use a female connector with a 2.5mm socket and you plug that into a 2.1mm male connector the central connection is not tight.  It can make the connection but could be either resistive or intermittent.  Just another thing to possibly check.

Hi Phil,

Yeah, I've made sure my cables are 5521..I'll be curious to know what you discover.
Phil Hoppes avatar
To follow up from yesterdays comments.  I did shoot M42 last night.  Had some nice clear skies.  I checked my outputs on my AA+ with everything running and my outputs were just at 13Vdc.  Here is my DVM.



Not sure if this really helps other that to show I'm not seeing what Jerry is seeing.  Again with last nights run.  About 7.5 hours of total imaging.  Jackery was at 100% to start and 52% on the finish.  Dew heaters (x2) were at about 35% and I took 75x300" images.
Jerry Gerber avatar
Phil Hoppes:
To follow up from yesterdays comments.  I did shoot M42 last night.  Had some nice clear skies.  I checked my outputs on my AA+ with everything running and my outputs were just at 13Vdc.  Here is my DVM.



Not sure if this really helps other that to show I'm not seeing what Jerry is seeing.  Again with last nights run.  About 7.5 hours of total imaging.  Jackery was at 100% to start and 52% on the finish.  Dew heaters (x2) were at about 35% and I took 75x300" images.

Thanks for the information Phil.

And you had the air plus's DC input plugged into the AM5's DC output? 

Now I am beginning to wonder if some AM5s are defective. 

What is the wattage & watt-hours of the Jackery? 

Thanks, 
Jerry
Phil Hoppes avatar
Jerry Gerber:
Phil Hoppes:
To follow up from yesterdays comments.  I did shoot M42 last night.  Had some nice clear skies.  I checked my outputs on my AA+ with everything running and my outputs were just at 13Vdc.  Here is my DVM.



Not sure if this really helps other that to show I'm not seeing what Jerry is seeing.  Again with last nights run.  About 7.5 hours of total imaging.  Jackery was at 100% to start and 52% on the finish.  Dew heaters (x2) were at about 35% and I took 75x300" images.

Thanks for the information Phil.

And you had the air plus's DC input plugged into the AM5's DC output? 

Now I am beginning to wonder if some AM5s are defective. 

What is the wattage & watt-hours of the Jackery? 

Thanks, 
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Yes, my AA+ is connected to 12Vdc OUT of the AM5.  It is a standard Jackery 300.  It is rated at 300W continuous or 14.4V for 293Wh.  Actually I'm curious about the current draw both on the combined and just the AA+ side.  I need to solder up some banana plug connectors to some 12Vdc connectors so I can safely measure both Vdc and Idc without accidentally shorting something.  I can be such a klutz at times I know if I try to do it with alligator clips I'll bump the wrong thing and short something out, because that's just the way I roll.  ;-).  When I get that done I will post back here with what I measure.
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Jerry Gerber avatar
Phil Hoppes:
Jerry Gerber:
Phil Hoppes:
To follow up from yesterdays comments.  I did shoot M42 last night.  Had some nice clear skies.  I checked my outputs on my AA+ with everything running and my outputs were just at 13Vdc.  Here is my DVM.



Not sure if this really helps other that to show I'm not seeing what Jerry is seeing.  Again with last nights run.  About 7.5 hours of total imaging.  Jackery was at 100% to start and 52% on the finish.  Dew heaters (x2) were at about 35% and I took 75x300" images.

Thanks for the information Phil.

And you had the air plus's DC input plugged into the AM5's DC output? 

Now I am beginning to wonder if some AM5s are defective. 

What is the wattage & watt-hours of the Jackery? 

Thanks, 
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Yes, my AA+ is connected to 12Vdc OUT of the AM5.  It is a standard Jackery 300.  It is rated at 300W continuous or 14.4V for 293Wh.  Actually I'm curious about the current draw both on the combined and just the AA+ side.  I need to solder up some banana plug connectors to some 12Vdc connectors so I can safely measure both Vdc and Idc without accidentally shorting something.  I can be such a klutz at times I know if I try to do it with alligator clips I'll bump the wrong thing and short something out, because that's just the way I roll.  ;-).  When I get that done I will post back here with what I measure.

Much appreciated.  Clearly, both our batteries are more than ample to supply the power that the mount, Air Plus, cameras and dew heaters require.  I just wrote to ZWO support to notify them that a few of us are having a problem with the AM5's DC output port.  I hope it can be fixed with firmware.  I dread having to ship the entire mount back and not have a mount for 2 months...

Have a good holiday!
Jerry
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Phil Hoppes avatar
Jerry Gerber:
Phil Hoppes:
Jerry Gerber:
Phil Hoppes:
To follow up from yesterdays comments.  I did shoot M42 last night.  Had some nice clear skies.  I checked my outputs on my AA+ with everything running and my outputs were just at 13Vdc.  Here is my DVM.



Not sure if this really helps other that to show I'm not seeing what Jerry is seeing.  Again with last nights run.  About 7.5 hours of total imaging.  Jackery was at 100% to start and 52% on the finish.  Dew heaters (x2) were at about 35% and I took 75x300" images.

Thanks for the information Phil.

And you had the air plus's DC input plugged into the AM5's DC output? 

Now I am beginning to wonder if some AM5s are defective. 

What is the wattage & watt-hours of the Jackery? 

Thanks, 
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Yes, my AA+ is connected to 12Vdc OUT of the AM5.  It is a standard Jackery 300.  It is rated at 300W continuous or 14.4V for 293Wh.  Actually I'm curious about the current draw both on the combined and just the AA+ side.  I need to solder up some banana plug connectors to some 12Vdc connectors so I can safely measure both Vdc and Idc without accidentally shorting something.  I can be such a klutz at times I know if I try to do it with alligator clips I'll bump the wrong thing and short something out, because that's just the way I roll.  ;-).  When I get that done I will post back here with what I measure.

Much appreciated.  Clearly, both our batteries are more than ample to supply the power that the mount, Air Plus, cameras and dew heaters require.  I just wrote to ZWO support to notify them that a few of us are having a problem with the AM5's DC output port.  I hope it can be fixed with firmware.  I dread having to ship the entire mount back and not have a mount for 2 months...

Have a good holiday!
Jerry

Ah sounds good.  Have a super holiday yourself.  Clear Skies for both of us in the new year!
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Jerry Gerber avatar
I think I made a classic troubleshooting error!  

It wasn't the mount that was the problem, it was my cable.  As soon as I swapped cables from a 22 gauge to a ZWO 18 gauge cable, all 4 power ports on the AIR Plus are now showing 12V as expected.  On both AIR Pluses!  Totally my mistake. 

This is a real lesson for me in troubleshooting–don't go to the worst case scenario first.  

Sorry about all this confusion I stirred up..

Jerry
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