Backfocus for the Esprit 100 & ASI2600MC

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Jerry Gerber avatar
Hello!

The Esprit 100 ED manual says that the backfocus, when using the field flattener that comes with the telescope and the ZWO ASI2600MC, should be 63mm.

A tech person at Sky Watcher says the backfocus with same setup should be 55mm. 

The field flattener comes with an 8mm spacer/adapter but if I remove it from the image train none of the ZWO extenders will screw into the flattener itself, there's a thread-size mismatch.  

Is the backfocus 63mm or 55?  If anyone has solved this, please share this with me!

Thanks,
Jerry
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Olly Barrett avatar
Hi…
I have an Esprit 100ed which I use with an ASI2600mm Pro…
Spacing should be 55mm, my rig is 56mm (but works perfectly)…
It is 63mm is you measure from the scope end of the 8mm adapter…
See Below…

Clear Skies‼️
Olly
Jerry Gerber avatar
Olly Barrett:
Hi…
I have an Esprit 100ed which I use with an ASI2600mm Pro…
Spacing should be 55mm, my rig is 56mm (but works perfectly)…
It is 63mm is you measure from the scope end of the 8mm adapter…
See Below…

Clear Skies‼️
Olly

Hi Olly,

Thanks for sharing this with me. Now I know the spacer to get. 

Jerry
Olly Barrett avatar
YaY 🎉‼️👍🏻😃
Olly Barrett avatar
By the way Jerry, can’t recommend using masking tape enough to stop the camera rotator moving 👍🏻🤣😜
Engaging
Daniel Renner avatar
Olly Barrett:
Hi…
I have an Esprit 100ed which I use with an ASI2600mm Pro…
Spacing should be 55mm, my rig is 56mm (but works perfectly)…
It is 63mm is you measure from the scope end of the 8mm adapter…
See Below…

Clear Skies‼️
Olly

I need some guidance, so did you have to buy another 0mm M48-M42 adapter so it could fit the skywatcher esprit 100 flattner?

Im following this; and the 16.5 is to small for the flattner.. 

Olly Barrett avatar
I have a 48-48mm 16.5 tube with the 2” filter wheel
If you zoom in you can see the 16.5 is 48/48 👍🏻
Daniel Renner avatar
Olly Barrett:
I have a 48-48mm 16.5 tube with the 2” filter wheel
If you zoom in you can see the 16.5 is 48/48 👍🏻

Ah I see! but that did you buy seperate right? this one? ZWO M48 to M48 16.5mm Extender | First Light Optics
Olly Barrett avatar
That’s the one 👍🏻
Daniel Renner avatar
Olly Barrett:
That’s the one 👍🏻


​​​​​I have my m48m-m48f 16.5L but I cannot get it to fit my filterwheel. It doesn't fit the 2mm spacer. Am I missing something? Can you post another picture on how you attached it to the filterwheel?
George  Yendrey avatar
Jerry Gerber:
Hello!

The Esprit 100 ED manual says that the backfocus, when using the field flattener that comes with the telescope and the ZWO ASI2600MC, should be 63mm.

A tech person at Sky Watcher says the backfocus with same setup should be 55mm. 

The field flattener comes with an 8mm spacer/adapter but if I remove it from the image train none of the ZWO extenders will screw into the flattener itself, there's a thread-size mismatch.  

Is the backfocus 63mm or 55?  If anyone has solved this, please share this with me!

Thanks,
Jerry

Jerry,
It is both! 

Yes, I know confusing.  I have an Esprit 100ED and the information is in the owners guide although it could be stated more clearly.  The "true" back focus from the front face of the field flattener is 63mm.  BUT...

If you look closely at the FF as packaged (and this is indicated in the users guide), there is an adapter on it for mating up the normal threads/attachments for whatever components you will install.  That adapter takes up 8mm of backspace, which leaves...  55mm!  The confusion is because Skywatcher has the 8mm thick adapter already installed on the field flattener and it looks like it is a part of the FF as a result

You can replace that adapter.  In fact you will need for to some configurations.

For instance, in my  setup with an OAG-L on the front end, EFW 2"x7, and ASG Photon Cage + 2600mm, I needed to adapt directly to the face of the OAG-L to stay within the required back focus and still provide a bit of play for adjusting out tilt/fine tuning the back focus with the ASG Photon Cage (which consumes 3mm of BF).

One thing you need to understand is that the Esprit 100ED is a mass produced telescope (or what passes for mass production from China) so there are tolerances in the stated specs.  Once you start imaging and if you use apps that determine the actual pixel resolution of your rig based on image analysis, you shouldn't be surprised if they report a very slightly different focal length that the stated spec.  Modern tilt/bf focus analysis tools like those in the HocusFocus plug-in for the N.I.N.A. sequence manager may show that your "real" back focus is different than the stated spec as well.

In my case, SkyX, and the analysis tools in PixInsight have demonstrated that my "real" focal length is a tiny bit (not quite 1%) bit longer than 550mm.  The AI in HocusFocus found the back focus with the OEM adapter on the Skywatcher Field Flattener is around 55.8mm.  In my case that bit extra BF was perfect since it provided a bit of extra space for adjusting the sensor tilt and fine tuning the backspace adjustment in the process.

Precise Part makes just about any type of custom adapter you might need:
PreciseParts Build-An-Adapter
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George  Yendrey avatar
Jerry,
I think you're going to be very pleased with your Esprit 100ED.  I thought I would point out a couple of things I've done/learned with mine.

The Skywatcher stock focuser is OK, but you'll need something like the Pegasus Astro focus cube universal adapter to mount an external electronic focuser on it.  The do sell the apater separately, so you don't have to get their FocusCube2 EF to get the adapter bracket (although I did).  For visual viewing the stock focuser is fine.

The issue I found (and it becomes evident with the larger sensor/small pixel CMOS cameras) is that droop/flexure of the focuser draw tube become evident as the imaging train weight increases.  A ZWO 2600MM is not a light camera and its QHY equivilant is even heavier.  As a result, it has significant leverage arm in its location behind the filter wheel and other accessories (OAG-L in my case).  With the draw tube droop/flexure, it has a noticeable effect on apparent image tilt as the OTA orientation changes with star tracking/relative target position in the sky.  I don't understand why SkyWatcher made the OTA tube so short that the focuser has be extended to around 75% of its full travel to get in focus at least for imaging (never used mine for visual so maybe in a visual rig setup there is a reason)

I replaced the Skywatcher focuser/focus tube assembly with a Moonlite Express Nightcrawler (Amy Astro uses them exclusively on her many OTAs on her YouTube channel) and it is a purchase I've never regretted.  I also like the Nightcrawler since it has a built-in field rotator that makes getting the target orientation you want in your image "frame" easy.

I've had my Esprit 100ED for three years now and it is close to perfect (IMO) as a combination of speed and field of view and work perfectly with around 90% of the targets I can access.  Something with more reach is needed for Galaxy season (except for larger galactic formations like Markarian's chain).  The Takahashi is the only builder that makes a refractor with close to the same specs.  Most manufacturers chose the easier to build f7.0 spec for their refractors.  The only thing I'll knock on the Esprit 100ED is the image circle - at 40mm it is the smallest image circle of the refractors in the same class.  Not an issue for APS-C sensor cameras, but there will be some vignetting from what has been reported by users with full frame sensor cameras like the ZWO6200.  VisibleDark used to run the Esprit 100ED as well; he found vignetting with his 2600 camera when he installed the Apex-L field reducer (made specifically for the Esprit scopes by Starizona).  

For imaging, specifically for creating calibration frames, there is a potential light leak where the dew shield slides up to meet the end of the OTA when fully extended.  I didn't notice it when new, but I think it develops over time.  By necessity there is a bit of play/gap between the dew shield and the OTA to allow the dew shield to move.  In practice, the dew shield will always be extended due to how short the OTA tube is - it can only retract if the scope rings are removed.  Just be sure when making your calibration frames, to wrap the rear of the dew shield where it meets the OTA with either a strap dew heater or with black electrical tape to ensure no light is getting around that gap.
Helpful
George  Yendrey avatar
Daniel Renner:
Olly Barrett:
That’s the one 👍🏻


​​​​​I have my m48m-m48f 16.5L but I cannot get it to fit my filterwheel. It doesn't fit the 2mm spacer. Am I missing something? Can you post another picture on how you attached it to the filterwheel?

You need to use the 2mm and Omm thread adapters provided by ZWO as shown in the ZWO back focus setup document (shown in a screen shot in this thread), If you are using a 3rd party 16.5 adpater with 48m threads then leave off the 0mm thread adapter shown installed with the 2mm adapter.
Jerry Gerber avatar
Jerry,
I think you're going to be very pleased with your Esprit 100ED.  I thought I would point out a couple of things I've done/learned with mine.

The Skywatcher stock focuser is OK, but you'll need something like the Pegasus Astro focus cube universal adapter to mount an external electronic focuser on it.  The do sell the apater separately, so you don't have to get their FocusCube2 EF to get the adapter bracket (although I did).  For visual viewing the stock focuser is fine.

The issue I found (and it becomes evident with the larger sensor/small pixel CMOS cameras) is that droop/flexure of the focuser draw tube become evident as the imaging train weight increases.  A ZWO 2600MM is not a light camera and its QHY equivilant is even heavier.  As a result, it has significant leverage arm in its location behind the filter wheel and other accessories (OAG-L in my case).  With the draw tube droop/flexure, it has a noticeable effect on apparent image tilt as the OTA orientation changes with star tracking/relative target position in the sky.  I don't understand why SkyWatcher made the OTA tube so short that the focuser has be extended to around 75% of its full travel to get in focus at least for imaging (never used mine for visual so maybe in a visual rig setup there is a reason)

I replaced the Skywatcher focuser/focus tube assembly with a Moonlite Express Nightcrawler (Amy Astro uses them exclusively on her many OTAs on her YouTube channel) and it is a purchase I've never regretted.  I also like the Nightcrawler since it has a built-in field rotator that makes getting the target orientation you want in your image "frame" easy.

I've had my Esprit 100ED for three years now and it is close to perfect (IMO) as a combination of speed and field of view and work perfectly with around 90% of the targets I can access.  Something with more reach is needed for Galaxy season (except for larger galactic formations like Markarian's chain).  The Takahashi is the only builder that makes a refractor with close to the same specs.  Most manufacturers chose the easier to build f7.0 spec for their refractors.  The only thing I'll knock on the Esprit 100ED is the image circle - at 40mm it is the smallest image circle of the refractors in the same class.  Not an issue for APS-C sensor cameras, but there will be some vignetting from what has been reported by users with full frame sensor cameras like the ZWO6200.  VisibleDark used to run the Esprit 100ED as well; he found vignetting with his 2600 camera when he installed the Apex-L field reducer (made specifically for the Esprit scopes by Starizona).  

For imaging, specifically for creating calibration frames, there is a potential light leak where the dew shield slides up to meet the end of the OTA when fully extended.  I didn't notice it when new, but I think it develops over time.  By necessity there is a bit of play/gap between the dew shield and the OTA to allow the dew shield to move.  In practice, the dew shield will always be extended due to how short the OTA tube is - it can only retract if the scope rings are removed.  Just be sure when making your calibration frames, to wrap the rear of the dew shield where it meets the OTA with either a strap dew heater or with black electrical tape to ensure no light is getting around that gap.

Thanks George.  I am very happy with the Esprit, I've had it now for 9 months and starting getting good images from the first night out.   It's a great scope.  I am not having any problems with light leaks due to the dew shield and I find the focuser quite good, particularly with the ability to lock the focusing draw tube, something my Edge 8 doesn't have. 

Jerry
https://www.astrobin.com/users/jsg/
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