Cleaning Optics of Celestron Edge HD 8-inch SCT

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IrishAstro4484 avatar
Can anyone advise on cleaning optics for a Celestron SCT Edge HT telescope?

I had a couple of imaging sessions somewhat ruined when my flats didn't work out too well. Some dust/dirt or pollen moving around during the imaging session I suspect so the flats didn't effectively calibrate out the crap on the optical train.

I have cleaned the outside of the corrector plate using a UHTC cleaning solution and cotton buds and retook my flats again.


I only bought the scope last year (brand new) and from all the guidance I have seen online the optics should only be cleaned sparingly (no more than annually if possible). I've even heard some people say it's years before they clean their optics.

The next step would be to remove the corrector plate and clean the back of it as well as the primary mirror but Celestron advises against this and says it may void the warranty?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated,

Cheers,

Rob

p.s below is an example of the one of the flats I took last night after cleaning the outside of the corrector plate.
Dale Penkala avatar
Can anyone advise on cleaning optics for a Celestron SCT Edge HT telescope?

I had a couple of imaging sessions somewhat ruined when my flats didn't work out too well. Some dust/dirt or pollen moving around during the imaging session I suspect so the flats didn't effectively calibrate out the crap on the optical train.

I have cleaned the outside of the corrector plate using a UHTC cleaning solution and cotton buds and retook my flats again.


I only bought the scope last year (brand new) and from all the guidance I have seen online the optics should only be cleaned sparingly (no more than annually if possible). I've even heard some people say it's years before they clean their optics.

The next step would be to remove the corrector plate and clean the back of it as well as the primary mirror but Celestron advises against this and says it may void the warranty?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated,

Cheers,

Rob

p.s below is an example of the one of the flats I took last night after cleaning the outside of the corrector plate.

Hello Rob,
1st I highly advise against pulling the corrector plate, especially with the scope being so new and as you have heard from others you don’t normally need to clean them unless they are extremely dirty.
I’m no pro here but what I’m seeing here is a dirty sensor window, and or possibly dust within your ff/fr. If it were me I would NOT do anything to the OTA and concentrate on your sensor window to get it clean.

I’d clean this and reshoot your flats and it should calibrate out.

Dale
Bruce Donzanti avatar
Hi Rob

A few comments based on my 8 years with a C11” EdgeHD:

- those are just dust motes that flats, if done properly, should easily remove from the image

- I assume this was taken with no filters.  Filters and the camera sensor window are great dust collectors 

- I only clean the outside of my corrector plate once every 2-3 years.  It can get pretty dirty and still works fine.  In fact, cleaning it too often can damage the coating on it.  I use the procedure by Dean from Starizona.  He has a video out you can watch.   And I never had to remove it to clean the inside which can also be tricky if not reinstalled properly.
andrea tasselli avatar
One word: Don't!

The dust motes you see are on the window of the camera and that's it. You can clean that if you're so inclined but you'll jeopardise the correct working of the SCT if you remove the corrector plate. Besides, anything there or on any mirror will be so out focus you have ZERO chance to see any effect on your image.
Lynn K avatar
Dust on the corrector plate will not come to focus. If it did, then you would have a great big  from the secondary mirror.

I agree with the post above.  The dust donuts are more likely from the chip cover window.

Lynn K.
John Hayes avatar
First, in spite of what other's say about it, removing and cleaning the corrector plate is very straight forward; however, it would be a waste of time.  Dirt in the entrance pupil, which is where the corrector sits, won't show up in any way in the focal plane.  Since you didn't provide any information about your imaging train, I can't say precisely , but the dust motes that you you displayed are most likely on either on the filters or on the camera window.   If you properly clean up the camera and the filters (if you are using them) you should be able to remove virtually all of those motes.  As it is, you've got a lot of dirt in your optics!

The next problem is why you can't calibrate your images?  All of those dust motes should easily be removed by image calibration.  It's best to set up your system with minimal contamination in the first place, but calibration should remove any residual motes.

John
Björn Arnold avatar
John Hayes:
First, in spite of what other's say about it, removing and cleaning the corrector plate is very straight forward;

John

*
John, 

Can you clarify what straight forward means? My understanding was that for a well aligned SCT lateral placement and rotational alignment of the Schmidt-plate is important and should be restored after removing it (if really needed)?

Björn
John Hayes avatar
Bjorn,
1) Straight forward = remove corrector, clean it, remount it, and realign the telescope.

2) A long time ago I did some ray-tracing to demonstrate that the centering tolerance on the corrector plate in an SCT is quite low.  I even supplied my analysis to Celestron but it took some convincing to show them that their own, internal analysis of this issue was incorrect.  Still, they didn't want to change their internal manufacturing process and to my knowledge, they still waste a lot of time trying to perfectly center corrector plates in production.  Either way, it's easy to remove a corrector plate and with the right procedure and a little care, to reposition it right where the factory put it.  And if you don't get it exactly right, it won't matter.

3) The clock angle of the corrector plates is carefully aligned at the factory.  Unfortunately, they don't have a very sensitive way to tell how the corrector should be aligned in the first place--and they often get it wrong.  (To be fair, I haven't looked at their manufacturing process for quite a while so my comments here apply to their process from ~ 5 years ago.)  They may have improved their process in the interim.). This post (and associated article) shows how the wavefront of a C14 can be significantly improved by correctly setting the clock angle of the corrector:  https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/576028-post-script-improving-the-wavefront-quality-of-the-c14-edge/.  Again, it's not very hard to replace a corrector plate to roughly the same angle as it came out of the factory.  +/- 10 degrees isn't likely to make any noticeable difference in the wavefront performance.

There's a bit more to step #1 above but I've talked a number of folks through completely rebuilding Edge scopes as well as cleaning them.  It's not that hard.  But...please don't flood me with requests for instructions.

John
Björn Arnold avatar
John Hayes:
Bjorn,
1) Straight forward = remove corrector, clean it, remount it, and realign the telescope.



John

*
Thank you for the explanation! Your answer confirmed what I had collected over time: rotational alignment matters but not down to „arcsecs“ 🙂

Björn
Prodromos avatar
I had mine done just like what Bjorn mentioned, removed the secondary mirror and used a tape on the edge of the corrector plate and the OTA radius as an indicator on where to put it back.
I did afterwards adjustment on the corrector plate tightening screws (not so much but to a level that I can see the optical train with one eye centered at a distance of around a meter or so from the tube)

After that tested and all went great.

I used kimtech wipes and distilled water with alcohol mixture (around 80% water and 20% alocohol)
IrishAstro4484 avatar
Dale Penkala:
Can anyone advise on cleaning optics for a Celestron SCT Edge HT telescope?

I had a couple of imaging sessions somewhat ruined when my flats didn't work out too well. Some dust/dirt or pollen moving around during the imaging session I suspect so the flats didn't effectively calibrate out the crap on the optical train.

I have cleaned the outside of the corrector plate using a UHTC cleaning solution and cotton buds and retook my flats again.


I only bought the scope last year (brand new) and from all the guidance I have seen online the optics should only be cleaned sparingly (no more than annually if possible). I've even heard some people say it's years before they clean their optics.

The next step would be to remove the corrector plate and clean the back of it as well as the primary mirror but Celestron advises against this and says it may void the warranty?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated,

Cheers,

Rob

p.s below is an example of the one of the flats I took last night after cleaning the outside of the corrector plate.

Hello Rob,
1st I highly advise against pulling the corrector plate, especially with the scope being so new and as you have heard from others you don’t normally need to clean them unless they are extremely dirty.
I’m no pro here but what I’m seeing here is a dirty sensor window, and or possibly dust within your ff/fr. If it were me I would NOT do anything to the OTA and concentrate on your sensor window to get it clean.

I’d clean this and reshoot your flats and it should calibrate out.

Dale

*** Thanks Dale! You were spot on. It was the sensor window. It's a brand new camera (ZWO 2600MC) so I wasn't expecting the camera itself to be dirty and I had this issue with my ZWO 1600MM and planetary camera so I thought the scope optics where dirty. I guess checking the camera every now and again can't do any harm! Thanks for your reply  ***
IrishAstro4484 avatar
John Hayes:
First, in spite of what other's say about it, removing and cleaning the corrector plate is very straight forward; however, it would be a waste of time.  Dirt in the entrance pupil, which is where the corrector sits, won't show up in any way in the focal plane.  Since you didn't provide any information about your imaging train, I can't say precisely , but the dust motes that you you displayed are most likely on either on the filters or on the camera window.   If you properly clean up the camera and the filters (if you are using them) you should be able to remove virtually all of those motes.  As it is, you've got a lot of dirt in your optics!

The next problem is why you can't calibrate your images?  All of those dust motes should easily be removed by image calibration.  It's best to set up your system with minimal contamination in the first place, but calibration should remove any residual motes.

John

*** Thanks John. It was the camera window afterall and yes, it makes sense that dust and dirt on the corrector plate shouldn't show up in the focal plane. I wasn't expecting this as it's a new camera.  After cleaning with a cotton bud and some cleaning solution, the flats look great. I guess I just need to be a bit more vigilant in future ***
IrishAstro4484 avatar
Lynn K:
Dust on the corrector plate will not come to focus. If it did, then you would have a great big  from the secondary mirror.

I agree with the post above.  The dust donuts are more likely from the chip cover window.

Lynn K.

*** Thanks Lynn. Yes it was the chip cover! (silly me) ***
Dale Penkala avatar
Dale Penkala:
Can anyone advise on cleaning optics for a Celestron SCT Edge HT telescope?

I had a couple of imaging sessions somewhat ruined when my flats didn't work out too well. Some dust/dirt or pollen moving around during the imaging session I suspect so the flats didn't effectively calibrate out the crap on the optical train.

I have cleaned the outside of the corrector plate using a UHTC cleaning solution and cotton buds and retook my flats again.


I only bought the scope last year (brand new) and from all the guidance I have seen online the optics should only be cleaned sparingly (no more than annually if possible). I've even heard some people say it's years before they clean their optics.

The next step would be to remove the corrector plate and clean the back of it as well as the primary mirror but Celestron advises against this and says it may void the warranty?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated,

Cheers,

Rob

p.s below is an example of the one of the flats I took last night after cleaning the outside of the corrector plate.

Hello Rob,
1st I highly advise against pulling the corrector plate, especially with the scope being so new and as you have heard from others you don’t normally need to clean them unless they are extremely dirty.
I’m no pro here but what I’m seeing here is a dirty sensor window, and or possibly dust within your ff/fr. If it were me I would NOT do anything to the OTA and concentrate on your sensor window to get it clean.

I’d clean this and reshoot your flats and it should calibrate out.

Dale

*** Thanks Dale! You were spot on. It was the sensor window. It's a brand new camera (ZWO 2600MC) so I wasn't expecting the camera itself to be dirty and I had this issue with my ZWO 1600MM and planetary camera so I thought the scope optics where dirty. I guess checking the camera every now and again can't do any harm! Thanks for your reply  ***

Glad it all worked out for you Rob!

Have a great Thanksgiving!

Dale
Jeff Reitzel avatar
Sorry. Deleted my comments as it seems you have found your answer.
CS,
Jeff
Alan Brunelle avatar
First of all, I am happy that you discovered the fact that such defined defects (motes) were from dirt on the sensor window and not on the OTA optical surfaces.  Also that dirt on the corrector, or objective cannot yield such defined defects, rather just reduce the light throughput.  Although, note below for my experience.  Most dust or haze on the optics only really affects light throughput, but regular structured "dirt" such as a spider web or other regular stuff, can cause unwanted diffraction spikes, etc.  Also, a slight increases in diffused light background.  But this latter issue seems to be of no concerns with professional scopes, so why should we care.  But that would be for very dirty optics.

I had an interesting problem about 18 months ago that motivated me to open the front of my RASA 11 OTA.  I had baby spiders invade the interior of my OTA.  Too small to notice these guys even when cleaning out the OTA, but the ultra thin webs that criss crossed the interior caused a significant degradation via wild diffraction spikes around bright stars and objects.  These are so thin that they are literally invisible under all circumstances, except when viewing down the OTA through the corrector at night with an LED headlamp.  In any case, I was not about to send the scope back to Celestron for the 3rd time that year for another cleaning.  (The first time was to correct a manufacturing defect, the second was because during the repair, they cleaned the optics and returned it with a big fat thumb print on the objective.  Totally unacceptable!)

From what is written, RASA's correctors are particularly fussy about positioning, not just centering, or rotationally, but also tilt.  This is clear when I looked at my corrector plate cell with all the random positioning of the cardboard shims used to tune this baby.  So I was not about to remove the corrector from its cell!  Just marking the corrector's rotational position would not be a perfect solution.

*In my opinion, I think Celestron does its customers a disservice by not making these telescopes more easily servicable.  Shipping these scopes back to Celestron for service and cleaning is not only a pain, and expensive to do properly(the shipping, that is), but comes with its own risks.  And the need to do so for customers overseas probably scares potential customers overseas from going in this direction.*

I believe the solution is a simple design change that allows the removal of the corrector cell intact with the corrector plate.  All that would be required is to use captive nuts on the inside of the OTA that hold the cell in place.  I know this because that is what I did.  I figured out a way to remove the screws and the whole cell slides off the OTA tube easily.  It is very easy to clean the corrector (meaing the inside surface) while it remains snugly within its cell.  It is much easier to handle the corrector when it is mounted in its cell and likely safer.  And when returning the cell and corrector to the OT, it is automatically repositions by the location of the screws.  The screw holes are small and tight to the screws, so there is essentially no rotational or translational (front/back) play.  I can confirm that the performance once I removed the corrector cell, cleaned the webs, and inside of the plate (I also blew the little bit of dust off the objective and vacuumed out the dust) was the same as prior to the cleaning. 

When I removed the screws during the start of the process, the nuts fell on the inside of the OT.  They were accessible after removing the cell.  To facilitate doing this in the future, I glued these nuts in position, to make them captive.  The screws were then waxed, so they wouldn't get stuck by the glue.  First, I cannot advise people to try this with their scopes.  One reason is that all it would take is to have removed all the screws but not having that last screw come out!  How often have we experienced that on other projects?!  In such a case, you would not be able to take the cell off and get to the loose nuts inside the OTA.  Then you would have to remove the corrector plate anyway!  But it would be a piece of cake for Celestron to use captive nuts or braised on nut plates to facilitate removal of the assembly.  That would allow the customer to do basic servicing inside the OTA and preserve the technical servicing of the optics by Celestron or licensed service partners.  From my experience, Celestron technicians seem to not be interested in doing simple cleaning service on scopes and that seems to show in the quality with which they did that service on my scope.  So why not give the customers the ability to do it themselves?