How outnumbered are we? - Forums

I just returned from the Almost Heaven Star Party. I’ve never seen the Milky Way so clearly defined and it extended all the way to the horizon! The only downside was dew that was so heavy that it formed droplets on on any exposed surface.

As expected, there were not many women there and most were of the “astronomy spouse” variety. Not that there is anything wrong with that but there were (so far as I could tell) only two women there on their own and as it turned out we were the only two women imaging. In our local imaging subgroup within the larger club I’m often (usually) the only woman who regularly attends meetings.

I’m not sure how to encourage more women to take up astrophotography or astronomy in general. I can certainly see how lugging equipment around can be discouraging. My small car was packed to bursting for the event. Loading and unloading all that gear can be a turnoff for many. It certainly contributes to keeping me at home for most imaging opportunities though the need to sleep and get to work the next day also plays a big part.

How do you find participation by women in astronomy or imaging in your areas? Any ideas for encouraging participation?

I was just talking about this with a female astrophotographer in the local area. We concluded that there are a number of influences contributing to the imbalance.

A large part of it is the imbalance in the number of women in STEM fields. This is a known problem, and seems to have origins in both "nature and nurture". Girls are actively (though perhaps unintentionally - or not) discouraged from pursuing academic interests in STEM fields while in school. And there may be biological differences that influence people's areas of interest.

My friend also brought up the different social interactions of men and women. Men are less likely to comment or 'like' images by others than women are, and are less likely to respond to comments than women are. The different ways that we respond on social media may discourage women astrophotographers from participating, given the male domination that already exists.

At the local star party last weekend, out of about 45 participants, there were, I think, 6 women actively observing or imaging. That is in addition to several astro spouses.

I can't think of what the local group could do to encourage more women participants. There is no overt chauvinism that I can see, and there are women on the organizing committee. I have been invited to give a talk three years in a row, and it has been well-received each time.

My own gut feeling is that the main problem is a failure of society to encourage girls and young women to pursue interests and careers in STEM subjects.

I find the same in the UK, but have no idea how to get more women interested. To my mind you either are or aren't interested in Astronomy.

Carole

Bonjour

J'espère que vous allez toutes bien.

En France nous avons aussi ce problème d'infériorité… non seulement dans l'observation… et pire dans l'astrophotographie.
Dans mon association, nous sommes 42 membres : 39 hommes et 3 femmes. Moi seule fais de l'astrophotographie.

Je crois que c'est une pratique bien à part qui demande beaucoup de temps et d'argent.
La plupart des femmes préfèrent se consacrer à leur famille et à d'autres loisirs, bien que les sciences les attirent.
Quand nous faisons des soirées des étoiles ouvertes au public, elles viennent voir et posent beaucoup de questions.
Mais peu sont prêtes à entrer dans la pratique comme nous autres.

Corine

Bonjour, Corinne.

J'ai compris votre message, mais je regret que je ne peut pas ecrire en francais assez bien pour repondre. (I think I got that right! :happy-2

Why do you think women do not get involved even when they are interested in astronomy or sciences? Is it just time and money, or do you think society discourages them from participating?

Kathy

Corine Yahia (RIGEL33):
Bonjour

J'espère que vous allez toutes bien.

En France nous avons aussi ce problème d'infériorité... non seulement dans l'observation... et pire dans l'astrophotographie.
Dans mon association, nous sommes 42 membres : 39 hommes et 3 femmes. Moi seule fais de l'astrophotographie.

Je crois que c'est une pratique bien à part qui demande beaucoup de temps et d'argent.
La plupart des femmes préfèrent se consacrer à leur famille et à d'autres loisirs, bien que les sciences les attirent.
Quand nous faisons des soirées des étoiles ouvertes au public, elles viennent voir et posent beaucoup de questions.
Mais peu sont prêtes à entrer dans la pratique comme nous autres.

Corine

*** Type your reply here ***

I think this roughly correct:

Hello

I hope you're all fine.

In France we also have this problem of inferiority ... not only in observation ... and worse in astrophotography.
In my association, we are 42 members: 39 men and 3 women. I alone do astrophotography.

I believe this is a very special practice that takes a lot of time and money.
Most women prefer to devote themselves to family and other hobbies, although the sciences attract them.
When we have star nights open to the public, they come to see and ask a lot of questions.
But few are ready to go into practice like the rest of us.

Corine

I think Kathy's analysis above is well stated and very accurate.

But things are changing at least in Scandinavia, 20 years ago I attend medical school and 10% of class female, this years class is over 50% women. Progress! Slow yes but much improved!

Bonjour Corinne, et bienvenue. Oui, très peu de femmes Astrophotographes, je pense que les hommes ont plus tendance à aimer les choses techniques et faire fonctionner les choses, et de jouer avec de nouveaux « jouets » comme je les appelle.

Agréable d’accueillir une autre femme dans notre groupe. À quoi ressemble votre ciel ou vous demeurez?

……………………………….
Welcome. Yes very few women Astrophotographers, I think men do have more of a tendency to like technical stuff and making things work, and playing with new "toys" as I call them.

Nice to welcome another female to our group. What are your skies like where you live?

To the OP,
Linda, you're right. I'm in Brazil, and I don't know any woman here who is an astrophotographer. There are some star parties here, but all of them, are composed of men. That's not an issue, but if i ever wonder to go to a star party, as i'm a minor, i must go with my dad - the problem is, he is not so much into astrophotography and astronomy XD

Anyways, we're really outnumbered. But I'm sure you've heard about STELA- some girls, all around the world (myself included) are in a fantastic "girls only" club, where we can chat, share our astrophotography, talk about non-astro topics and many others. I see most women on astrobin aren't aware of this group- but i mean, you all should join. I'm sure you would enjoy it a lot. We videocall, make some zoom meetings, and everything else. We've recently moved to discord. If any of you want to join, you can contact @vanillamoon22 (Diana) on instagram! She will love to have all of you in the group!! We have an instagram page here: https://www.instagram.com/we.are.stela/

Thus far, being a woman in this hobby is not as easy as it sounds, we may face some unusual situations, but at the end it's always great to have other girls to talk to!!

Merci à vous toutes pour votre accueil !
Merci de tenter de traduire vos écrits mais ne vous inquiétez pas... je me sers du traducteur google qui fait le boulot.

Carastro:
À quoi ressemble votre ciel ou vous demeurez?

Notre ciel est très correct si on s'éloigne des grandes villes. Et j'ai appris qu'une grande ville de France, Lyon, allait commencer à couper son éclairage public à certaines heures de la nuit... on avance bien sur la pollution lumineuse.

Kathy Walker:
Why do you think women do not get involved even when they are interested in astronomy or sciences? Is it just time and money, or do you think society discourages them from participating?

Je ne pense pas que la société les empêche, aujourd'hui, de faire ce qu'elle souhaite en loisirs. Je connais beaucoup de femmes archéologues ou dans le monde médical. C'est plus pauvre en astronomie professionnel mais elles sont de plus en plus nombreuses. Je me suis liée d'amitié avec certaines d'entre elles.
Pour ce qui est du choix des loisirs, je pense vraiment que les femmes, dans leur ensemble, font passer leur famille avant tout, pensant peut-être à tort, que sans elle, la famille ne s'en sortirait pas (ce qui est faux). D'un autre côté, on nous enseigne cela dès le berceau qu'il faut être à disposition de sa famille au cas où... je ne sais pas... c'est difficile.

Je suis au Brésil, et je ne connais aucune femme ici qui soit astrophotographe. Il y a des fêtes vedettes ici, mais toutes sont composées d'hommes.

Dans mon club, nous sommes trois femmes (pour 39 hommes). Mais je suis la seule des trois à faire de l'astrophoto.
Par contre, je me suis liée d'amitié avec d'autres astrophotographes femmes lors de ces fameuses rencontres auxquelles je participe.
Même si on est en infériorité numérique, on est quand même présentes.
Je ne sais pas si c'est le cas chez vous, mais en France, la plupart des hommes astrophotographes nous admirent, nous les femmes pratiquant ce loisirs. Plusieurs me l'ont dit, apprécient mon travail et m'encouragent à en faire plus.
Et vous ?
*** Type your reply here ***

Anyways, we're really outnumbered. But I'm sure you've heard about STELA- some girls, all around the world (myself included) are in a fantastic "girls only" club, where we can chat, share our astrophotography, talk about non-astro topics and many others. I see most women on astrobin aren't aware of this group- but i mean, you all should join. I'm sure you would enjoy it a lot. We videocall, make some zoom meetings, and everything else. We've recently moved to discord. If any of you want to join, you can contact @vanillamoon22 (Diana) on instagram! She will love to have all of you in the group!! We have an instagram page here: https://www.instagram.com/we.are.stela/

Is there some other way to make contact, I don't have an instagram account and quite honestly do not want to add it to my Apps.

Carole

Hi fellow women and girls,
I know this phenomena pretty well. I‘ve been interested in stereotypically manly hobbies my whole life (soccer, computers, gaming, astronomy) a lot, and while until beginning of 2019, I mostly watched astronomy documentations and read about it, I pulled the trigger over 2 years ago on a used dobson together with my partner. He‘s interested in doing visual only, and only a few times a year, ocassionally he does planetary imaging, but thats rare. So I‘m the „mad“ one out of us two, I went in deep, amassed a lot of equipment and thoroughly enjoy astrophotography. On the first star party we went together in June 2019 (I was the only women there, and one asshole even said to my boyfriend while pointing his finger at the finder scope of our dobson that this should be my „womanscope“ as I couldn‘t handle a dobson in his eyes!), I was plainly seen as an astrogirlfriend by most of these dudes, they assumed my boyfriend was the competent one, but he even said to them he enjoys doing visual from time to time but I‘m the one who‘s really into it and knows quite a lot. After a few days we were cool with each other but I had a rocky start. On the web it‘s easier though, I‘m chatting mostly with men (as my followers on IG are apparently 92% men) and they see my work and know that I must at least know something about this craft

However I miss meeting girls/women in reallife that are into it - if anyone here is from Germany hit me up, maybe we can organise something!

Mina

Hi, Mina! Welcome to the group!

One of the things I've been happy to see is an influx of women at our club events here in Virginia. At our last public observing event there were more women there than I had ever seen before and two were quite enthusiastic. Hopefully this will turn into a new trend! But, whatever the cause, it was nice to have a steady stream of women come up to my telescope to take a peak through the eyepiece.

Linda:
Hi, Mina! Welcome to the group!

One of the things I've been happy to see is an influx of women at our club events here in Virginia. At our last public observing event there were more women there than I had ever seen before and two were quite enthusiastic. Hopefully this will turn into a new trend! But, whatever the cause, it was nice to have a steady stream of women come up to my telescope to take a peak through the eyepiece.

Hi Linda, thank you! That sounds amazing - I'm currently looking into joining a club as well.
I figured since I'm active on instagram in the astrophotography community, there are a lot more women doing Astronomy now (both visual and imaging) than a year ago, so the numbers are definitely rising. May be due to Covid, lots of people delved into new hobbies and astronomy is a perfect social distancing hobby.

For those of you on Facebook, there is a group called Women in Astrophotography. It is fairly new, I think, but it seems to be growing.

Mina, I am sorry you were disrespected at the star party. As more of us get involved in this hobby and make ourselves visible, it wll get better.

Regards.
Kathy

Hi ladies, it's the same here in Australia, we are outnumbered by the men, it doesn't really bother me though. I am the only female in our local astronomy group also the only astrophotographer in that same group. But with our state group we have been holding a lot of live streams during covid lockdowns and this has boosted our numbers of men, women and children. Show them what they're missing, you'd be surprised how many women are interested but not had the chance to follow the dream.

Anne-Maree

Hello everyone,
I'm new to this forum and Astrophotography. I have been interested in Astronomy and science my whole life, but have a graphic design and fine art background. Currently I'm probably the only woman (that I know of) imaging at any of the star parties I've gone to. Very few women come at all and they are usually wives or girlfriends of the guys with the equipment. Most of the men I've met in my local club, however, have been a tremendous help and I've gotten lots of advice and encouragement from them. However I sure would like to meet other women astrophotographers in my area. I'm almost always the only female with an imaging set up . I live in Northern California.
Karen Bieber

Bienvenue Karen

Oui je connais le même souci concernant mes homologues astrophotographes.
Dans mon club nous sommes trois femmes pour 40 hommes et je suis la seule astrophotographe.
Les seules que je rencontre en réel, c'est au cours de rencontre d'astronomes amateurs de diverses régions. Mais là aussi nous ne sommes pas nombreuses.

Je pense que la plupart des femmes ne se lancent pas en astronomie ou en astrophotographie par manque de temps mais aussi et surtout par peur d'une trop grande complexité de la pratique.

J'habite près de Bordeaux en France

Welcome, Karen! I'm on the other side of the country from you but hopefully you can connect with some Northern California women here!

Karen Bieber:
Hello everyone,
I'm new to this forum and Astrophotography. I have been interested in Astronomy and science my whole life, but have a graphic design and fine art background. Currently I'm probably the only woman (that I know of) imaging at any of the star parties I've gone to. Very few women come at all and they are usually wives or girlfriends of the guys with the equipment. Most of the men I've met in my local club, however, have been a tremendous help and I've gotten lots of advice and encouragement from them. However I sure would like to meet other women astrophotographers in my area. I'm almost always the only female with an imaging set up . I live in Northern California.
Karen Bieber

Hi, Karen. Welcome!

This seems to be a common issue in the field. There are still some dinosaur males in the field, but it is getting better. Our local RASC centre has quite a few women members, including one very talented teen-aged astrophotographer who is rapidly getting better than the rest of us! There is a supportive atmosphere, and I have detected no negativity or disrespect. We are still the minority, but it is improving.

Unfortunately, I cannot help you much in Northern California. I am at the opposite end of the continent.

Regards,
Kathy

There used to be two of us women at my local astro group but the other one has been doing wildlife photography for a few years now and only chips in about 1 image per year so basically it is just me.

I do meet some other female imagers from time to time at Astro parties, but I could count them all on one hand.

Carole

I just discovered this group! and I wanted to share a resource, that isn't so much for you as it might be for your clubs. So many of the amateur astronomy groups that I've been involved with as I've moved across the US don't even realize how the culture of the club is off-putting to women, although some are intentionally so. I used to work at the Astronomical Society of the Pacific and they've been working with clubs across the country for years, trying to gently change the culture. This set of resources is one of their latest efforts. It's specifically about being more welcoming to Girl Scouts, but obviously is just about not being jerks to girls, hopefully they said that in a way that it can be heard, but sometimes I think the approach is too gentle. I'm a lifelong stargazer, but haven't actually taken up astrophotography yet, as I near retirement, I'm considering it though:
https://nightsky.jpl.nasa.gov/download-view.cfm?Doc_ID=701

Welcome, and thanks for that link!

Hi, just found this group! I'm relatively new to astrophotography, I've done a small amount over the past 10 years but have only really started taking it seriously. It is very intimidating to join any astronomy/astrophotography groups locally as they are primarily older men and I'm in my late 20's and still have a lot to learn that I don't think I would have much to contribute.

My biggest hang up is going out at night alone. Luckily my partner is very supportive and always comes with me and helps me set up without complaint, but I do wish I could safely go out alone so he didn't always have to tag along. The dream is of course a private yard I can just set up in, but as of now that seems out of reach, so we always have to travel out somewhere.

I got my bachelor's in physics and astronomy a few years ago and there was a handful of women I graduated with, but especially in smaller class sizes I was usually the only woman, or one of two. Made making friends easy though! They would theoretically be a nice resource to lean on in terms of imaging partners, however none are actually into astrophotography as a hobby, figures