What is the focal length of my ESPRIT 100ED?

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Frédéric Auchère avatar
Easy, it is 550 mm. Or is it? While refining my PEC curve (I need the value to convert the measured PE offsets from pixels to arc seconds), I came to ask myself what the effective focal length of my scope really is.

For small angles, the focal length is simply given by:

focal length = pixel pitch / plate scale

The pixel pitch is known from sensor manufacturers, and the plate scale is kindly provided by the plate-solving service of AstroBin For example, for my latest image (AB-measured plate scale 2.429"/pixel) taken with my EOS 6D (6.54 microns pixels), I get:

F = 555.36 mm

Which is about 1% longer than the listed value. How accurate is this estimate? Pixel pitches are typically given to 0.01 microns, for sizes of about 5 microns. I thus estimate that they are accurate to at least 1e-3. From a few plate solves of my own images, I estimate the error on the plate scale to be of that order also. The 1% extra length found should thus be significant. No big deal, but is this just my copy?

To test this, I used AB to compute focal lengths from a bunch of images taken with ESPRIT 100EDs. With AB's API, I got plate scales for 1220 images taken during the past year, with a variety of cameras: Monos, OSCs & DSLRs. I took the median value for each user (assuming a single copy each), and computed the histogram. This gives the step curve in the graph below:



It is peaked at 555 mm (meaning that my copy is pretty typical), with a dispersion of a few mm. One can check that there is no significant dependence of the focal length with pixel sizes, meaning that uncertainties on these latter are not the source of the dispersion. The pastel-colored curves are histograms for individual users with more than 20 images, which gives an idea of the measurement dispersion for individual copies. There are a few stray values (and several possible causes) but they should not affect the conclusions.

I don't know why the focal length is listed as 550 mm and not 555. One answer could be: "who cares?". Another could be that the focal length of the triplet is indeed 550 and that the field corrector used by all imagers increases the effective length a bit. Or something else.

Anyway, I did this for fun and out of curiosity, and the 1% difference from the nominal has absolutely no importance. But who knows, maybe somebody will care, hence this long post

CS,

Frédéric

PS: AB is really a fantastic resource!
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Artur Bohr avatar
Hallo Frédéric, 

just a guess: it might be caused by thermal expansion, depending on the shooting conditions of your data. The production temperature of the glass elements should be around 20°C at wich exactly 550mm are reached. The higher the temperature difference to this reference, the higher the curvature change of the lense, hence different focal lenght, stronger abberation effects, etc. Also the temperature difference between a due heater on the front lens and the lenses on the back side might play a role.

If you have temperature data for the sample data available you could correlate to check if this might be the case.  

Cheers Artur
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kuechlew avatar
Various possible explanations:
- metric vs. nonmetric system - a 4" f 5.5 is  101,6 x 5,5 = 558,8mm
- manufacturing tolerances
- temperature effects
- additional components in the optical path
- …

I would not care too much about 1% tolerance. After all, you got 5mm more focal length for the same price.

Clear skies
Wolfgang
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rhedden avatar
"After all, you got 5mm more focal length for the same price."  smile    Love this take on it.

FWIW, the most recent image taken with my copy of the Esprit 100ED indicates a focal length of 555.9 mm, which is in the middle of your bell curve somewhere.
Frédéric Auchère avatar
Artur Bohr:
Hallo Frédéric, 

just a guess: it might be caused by thermal expansion, depending on the shooting conditions of your data. The production temperature of the glass elements should be around 20°C at wich exactly 550mm are reached. The higher the temperature difference to this reference, the higher the curvature change of the lense, hence different focal lenght, stronger abberation effects, etc. Also the temperature difference between a due heater on the front lens and the lenses on the back side might play a role.

If you have temperature data for the sample data available you could correlate to check if this might be the case.  

Cheers Artur

That could indeed contribute to the dispersion of values for a given copy. I don't have precise temperature data. My coldest image gives me a longer focal length. I don't know in what direction the variation is expected for that triplet.

Frédéric
Frédéric Auchère avatar
I would not care too much about 1% tolerance.


I don't That was a pure geeky procrastination activity
After all, you got 5mm more focal length for the same price.

Ryan Jones avatar
Well didn’t that turn into a far more interesting topic than the title suggested… 

A really interesting read. Thanks for posting 

Ryan
Ian Dixon avatar
Hello Frederic,

Thanks for posting this.  My 120 Esprit is listed as 840 mm focal length, at f7.  Using the plate solving routine within the imaging software (ASIAir) that I normally use,  I routinely come up with a number of 861 mm.   Perhaps your discussion addresses this discrepancy… its interesting to me too.  smile

Ian
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Frédéric Auchère avatar
@Ian Dixon, here is what I get for the ESPRIT 120ED

That is a less common beast than the 100 ED, so I did not include the plots for individual users. Your 861 mm are spot on the most probable value.

Frédéric
Luc Viatour avatar
the esprit 120 has a focal length of 840mm without the field corrector. And is 861mm with the field corrector which changes the focal length a little to correct.
and with the x0.77 reducer it has a focal length of 646mm
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csummers avatar
Manufacturing tolerances for focal length are generally in the 1% range for good optics.  More money, tighter tolerances.
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jmarinotero avatar
Very interesting, I've measured my Esprit several times by looking at the plate solve results and come up at the same 555mm, give or take. For some time I wondered if there was something wrong with it, but since stars looked great all the way to the corners (APS-C) I stopped worrying about it. It turns out I was in good company with my measurements, thanks for doing this.
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Chris White- Overcast Observatory avatar
It's quite common for advertised focal lengths to not match perfectly with reality. Canon lenses can be off by quite a bit, it would surprise you!  Round numbers sound good. F5 is better than f5.2 for example, or 550 better than 556mm. 

A scope could also suffer from focus breathing. The focal length can changed based of focus distance.  Maybe the scope was designed to be 550mm focal length at a specific distance and not "infinity" focus. 

Also most flatteners have a very slight Barlow effect.  Perhaps advertised FL was fir a naked scope. 

Either way, I enjoyed your post!  Thank you.
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Patrick Graham avatar
Interesting!  The Manual states a focal length of 910mm for my SVX130_T.   With a flattener reducer, it's 655mm.   What's cool is when my ZWO ASI AirPlus plate solves, it computes the focal length as 705mm when using the flattener/reducer.   So that's the focal length I use when setting up the parameters for my Autorun sequences.   Auto focus is spot on and the images are crisp.  This is fairly new equipment for me and it's much smarter than I am!!

CS

Patrick
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Ryan Jones avatar
My GSO 200mm f/4 platesolves at 813mm. It would be fine if the tube length was built to suit but without a parfocal ring to space out my Coma Corrector, the focuser wouldn’t rack out to the focal point. I had a friend who bought one and found the exact same issue. We’ve both modified our systems anyway now so it’s a non issue but serves as an instance where the focal length not being as quoted actually creates a very real issue. 

Ryan
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Boyan Kassabov avatar
I  don't really know  about  yours in particular, but my Esprit 120 should be 840 mm, but in fact it's 872. Difference of roughly 5% I don't know what's the cause - the scope itself or the flattener ( SW without reducing factor, originally designed for Esprit 120). Either way, doesn't bother me. What really annoys me, is I need to focus between different filters (parafocal Astrodon filters)
Luc Viatour avatar
Boyan Kassabov:
I  don't really know  about  yours in particular, but my Esprit 120 should be 840 mm, but in fact it's 872. Difference of roughly 5% I don't know what's the cause - the scope itself or the flattener ( SW without reducing factor, originally designed for Esprit 120). Either way, doesn't bother me. What really annoys me, is I need to focus between different filters (parafocal Astrodon filters)

it's normal, it's the field corrector which has a small barlow effect without it there is exactly 840mm of focal length.