Imaging at f7.7

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Piers Palmer avatar
I love Vixen stuff...there, I've dealt with that one. 

I have a R200SS (8" Newtonian) which I really enjoy imaging with, but it must be pushing 15 years old now. The mirror looks great, there's no degradation that I can see, but it's still 15 years old and I keep wondering about treating myself to a new one. But then, it's a reflector, with all the hassle that comes with. These things do need collimating (I'm not quite sure why some perceive they don't!), they do have light leaks, they're big (although light) so windy nights are a waste of time....and I do already have one that I am happy with. 

I went out with my youngest the other night and he was transfixed by what he saw on my ipad (via ASIair) but wanted to see it "himself". I do have a Redcat51 but it isn't set up for visual and it's tiny (of course). So I've been wondering about something like the Vixen SD81; it's not horrendously expensive, decent focal length (I like around the 600-800mm mark) and it's a Vixen! But is it really feasible to do imaging at f7.7? It'll require nearly 4 times the integration time compared to my newt, but perhaps there'll be less time setting up etc and the frames might be "better". Will I notice the vastly reduced aperture in my images in terms of resolution or are my northern England skies so rubbish that an 8" is a waste anyway? Perhaps my appalling weather makes a fast scope essential? Do focal reducers really speed things up or merely increase the field of view?

I've got the hang of mosaics now so I wonder if I even need the Redcat, which I bought for the really big things in the sky...although it's f4.9. I could use that to part fund a new scope...I would keep hold of the newt though.

Someone (please) tell me what to do!
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Steve Solon avatar
Hi Piers,
Just my own injection. I have both an 11" EdgeHD Schmidt Cass and an 80mm Stellarvue refractor (f/6, 480mm) Since I do mostly imaging with the refractor, I do have a 2" Orion corrector on it to keep the star-stretching at the edges to a minimum.

I enjoy working with the refractor immensely, and have had it for many years. I know there are many choices in the 3-5" refractor market, many more than when I bought the Stellarvue. I think you would enjoy something like this. Good ones are in the 1K to $1500 range, but I can tell you from experience that they're certainly worth it.

By the way, reducers do both, reduce exposure times and increase field of view. I use the refractor at full resolution, and my exposures are typically 5-10 minutes. I use a QSI CCD with filters. It has a built-in guider port, so, although I really don't need to autoguide for exposures of those lengths, I still do, with a ZWO ASI120mm-ss.

Hope this helps (or doesn't add to confusion).

- - Steve
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Aygen avatar
Hi,


To your question "is it really feasible to do imaging at f/7.7", DEFINITLY. I am currently imaging at this f ratio with my TOA and I couldn't be more happier quality wise. Sure,  it requires more time, but other than that…. nothing to complain.

As for your weather situation (I'm from Switzerland, weather conditions are a bit better than yours, but not that much), having a fast scope could be good choice especially in presence of very limited number of clear skies per year.

My advise to you : take your time, do you maths, and go ahead. You should consider all the parameters - including the weather parameters in your particular situation. 

Best,
A.
Concise
Michael Ring avatar
I must honestly say that I enjoy a lot needing only 4 minute subs for my fast EdgeHD 9.25 with Hyperstar. With my refractor (f5) I use 10 minute subs and still the single subs from the Hyperstar look better than the subs from the refractor.
So if I were in your shoes (actually I am, also own a R200SS which I bought used but I am still fighting collimation) then I'd stay with it, unless you are sick and tired of the whole reflector annoyances like collimation.
May I ask which mount you use? Perhaps investing into a bigger mount can help making the whole package less wind sensitive.

Michael
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Piers Palmer avatar
I know there are many choices in the 3-5" refractor market, many more than when I bought the Stellarvue. I think you would enjoy something like this. Good ones are in the 1K to $1500 range, but I can tell you from experience that they're certainly worth it.

The refractor would be as much to get back into visual as for astrophotography and I don't want to go too short in terms of focal length as I do like those smallish fuzzy things too. I think the one that makes the most sense is an Askar 600, but it doesn't....excite me....visually like some scopes do. I know this makes no difference at all to the view it produces, but I do like to enjoy the aesthetics of something. Silly really!
Aygen:
My advise to you : take your time, do you maths, and go ahead. You should consider all the parameters - including the weather parameters in your particular situation.

An umbrella and some anti-depressants it is then! The one thing I do have going for me is when it is clear, I have very dark skies (Bortle 3), so that will always help. 
Michael Ring:
So if I were in your shoes (actually I am, also own a R200SS which I bought used but I am still fighting collimation) then I'd stay with it, unless you are sick and tired of the whole reflector annoyances like collimation.
May I ask which mount you use? Perhaps investing into a bigger mount can help making the whole package less wind sensitive.

I'm only using a small sensor (ASI533MC Pro) so stars are pretty sharp throughout...when collimated...but I don't think it's holding collimation that well. The previous owner of mine "upgraded" to Bob's Knobs and I'm not sure that was a good move. Some evenings I love imaging with it and others it drives me mad. It wasn't expensive so I don't get too mad. I'd just like something really easy sometimes, that had more than a 250mm focal length of my Redcat. 

My mount is a Vixen SXD2. Now that's really good! Something like the EQ6R is perhaps more stable, but I think I'd prefer to go smaller scope than different mount.
Piers Palmer avatar
Thinking about this in a slightly different way, something like a Skywatcher Esprit 80 would give a nice mid-way point in terms of field of view between the Redcat and the R200SS, and give me three options below f6. The SD81 with the Vixen reducer would give me something similar but with the option of 600mm of focal length too. 



This hobby is REALLY annoying.
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Michael Ring avatar
Choices choices… You cannot do wrong with a lens in the 400mm range especially when it is also offered with a flattener/reducer to around 300mm, but to even throw you deeper into the dark and lonely thought tunnel, can you please enable an APS-C sized sensor in Stellarium?
Piers Palmer avatar
smile….no!

Actually, I have thought about this quite a bit and I've never gone for it because my R200SS has a Coma Corrector 3, not a Corrector PH, so I don't think corrects to the edge of an APS-C sensor and I didn't want to find new things to get frustrated with. I'm sure at some point I'll upgrade but with my 3rd child having her uni place confirmed today, I'd better save some money for food and heating!
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