Where should I go equipment-wise now? - Forums

Topic starter

Jul 31, 2022 · Edited: Jul 31, 2022

I have stuck with what my wife bought me as a 59th birthday (a few years ago) present so far: An 8" Newtonian on an HEQ5 Pro mount. I've added cooled mono camera (ASI1600MM Pro), filter wheel, OAG guiding, coma corrector, autofocusser (ZWO EAF V2) etc etc and am having fun with it as a general purpose 906mm F4.5 setup.

I'm now wondering what my next moves should be. My thoughts are:

#1: Upgrade the mount as it is on the limits; maybe a CEM70
#2: Maybe get a decent, although affordable refractor for wide-field astrophotography. I've never had one, so would welcome suggestions
#3: Look for another reflector with a bigger aperture and more reach for galaxy/planetary stuff … suggestions would be welcome

I must admit, the Skywatcher 200PDS on the HEQ5 Pro has been a great way to learn the basics whilst also being able to capture a wide variety of subjects.

Just looking for ideas?

Engaging

Hasan

Jul 31, 2022

Good afternoon

Hope you and yours are doing well…

What is your budget…? I believe that this is the most important question that needs to be answered before you think of making any decision.

Best wishes

Hasan

robonrome

Jul 31, 2022

Hi Andy, you have done well with what you have and it's already a fairly long focal length. If you wanted to go longer you would need that mount upgrade. I had the CEM70 and now CEM120 and CEM40… the 70 is a great middle range and a stepup from the HEQ5… but while I love the form and operation of the CEM when they work, support is minimal and patchy when things don't. And if you are going up in length you need everything really humming.

If you haven't experienced the simple joys of a small refractor its certainly worth going there. At 300-400mm focal length you will be able to capture vistas you can't with your current gear without major mosaics… and your existing mount will be fine. Theres so much to choose from. I have an Askar 400 apo which is a 72mm objective, 400mm focal length and f5.6. It's a multi element design like a petzval that means no specific backfocus needed… dont know about you but after so many hours chasing optimal backfocus on other scopes it's a dream not caring. So many others. I see a lot of great images from the William Optics scopes like the GT81 as well. The Redcat series WO have 50 and 70mm are petzval types as well with no specific backfocus spacing and look to provide supersharp images. Only downside is the redcats dont have a traditional focusser, so automating options limited…but growing see deep sky dad.

Good luck with you next steps Andy.

Cheers

Rob

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Andy Wray

Topic starter

Jul 31, 2022 · Edited: Jul 31, 2022

Hasan:
What is your budget...?

I guess I'm in the £20,000 region maximum spend total ... I could afford more, but I can't justify it based on my current skills. I'm barely getting the most out of my current £4,000 equipment. I see so many people on here with very expensive gear that are not necessarily creating much better images than my £400 OTA, so I don't want to be silly.

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Matthew Proulx

Jul 31, 2022 · Edited: Jul 31, 2022

Andy Wray:
Hasan:
What is your budget...?

I guess I'm in the £20,000 region maximum spend total ... I could afford more, but I can't justify it based on my current skills. I'm barely getting the most out of my current £4,000 equipment. I see so many people on here with very expensive gear that are not necessarily creating much better images than my £400 OTA, so I don't want to be silly.

Not much better is still better. £20,000 would buy you a big a** refractor or a well corrected CDK and a highend mount with a full frame mono cam. You can't tell me that you wouldn't get much better than you do now. 99% of peoples problems myself included, are crappy telescopes crappy guiding and crappy processing. I have sorted out the guiding part with an EQ8 and have a few decent telescopes now. Processing is a never ending skill.

Hasan

Jul 31, 2022

I would spend on mount - if possible - with absolute encoders - I believe that a good mount makes this hoppy a lot more fun, enjoyable and easy - Avalon has a relatively cheaper solution with Absolute encoders - I do not know quality - I have 10 micron GM2000 HPS, a GM 1000 HPS is as good as it gets - but, carries lesser weight.

If you are not intimidated by collimation - I don't think you are - since you have been using a Newtonian thus far - then, consider a 12.5" CDK-design by Planewave etc.

An absolute-encoder mount will relieve you of a need to have a computer to guide, and hassles associated with it.

You can use NINA - the free software for Acquistion etc… Processing you can continue doing what you already are.

You can use a cheap ASIair PLUS or Eagle LE - to save your images only or more…

Thats my 2 cents…

I use a Dolly to keep all my system portable.

Alternatively - check out Plane Wave L350 system - its 35K - USD - but, gives you an awesome Astro-photographic system.

Best regards

Hasan

Dark Matters Astrophotography

Jul 31, 2022

Since you are in the UK, getting a 10 micron makes a lot of sense. Since you are already cutting your teeth on the Newt life – you could look at the E160-ED which is a high-end full frame corrected and very fast widefield astrograph. For planetary imaging, a nice SCT is usually the go-to scope for that kind of work.

Wim van Berlo

Jul 31, 2022

If you have the option, build or buy an observatory. Being able to leave everything set up is a huge step forward to getting the most out of rare clear nights. It allows for long multi-nights projects.

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kuechlew

Aug 1, 2022

You're doing great with your current gear Andy. So think twice before changing anything. Since you worried a lot about tracking accuracy and mount performance in the past you and since you're pushing its weight limits you may start browsing 10micron catalogues in the presence of your wife and then hope for the best …

Good luck and clear skies
Wolfgang

GalacticRAVE

Aug 1, 2022

well, you could go for nice WF refractor that still fits your HEQ-5, that will use some 1-2k and buy something nice for your significant other (a little thank you to get you in that fascinating hobby :-)). Everything bigger will start with the mount. and with the question of mobility - do you have a stationary setup as an option or do you need mobile. If the latter: with regularly lifting how many kg are you feeling comfortable with? That will be a major factor. if your kg tolerance is high, spend a fair fraction of your budget on the mount, like a EQ8, CEM120 (possibly with encoders) or, even better a 10micron. For the wide field route, you probably want to go to a larger FoV, like a full frame, that also can easily consume 40-50% if your budget. And then you start working on decision process as you have to make the compromises…

Steven

Aug 1, 2022 · Edited: Aug 1, 2022

Hey Andy!

If you're upgrading the existing bits, I'd probably go for a bigger mount, I mean, the HEQ5 can take about 14kg maximum. And you're probably closer to that limit than you "should" be. The CEM70 definitely looks good on paper. Especially at the price!
You could probably get away with something like the Skywatcher EQ6-R and save a bit of money while still getting the weight capacity that you need for the 200PDS. - but wether or not it's worth saving money there.. who knows..

And/or, upgrading the camera would make a big difference. Think towards something like the ZWO ASI 2600MM.
But you then probably will need to upgrade the filters + filterwheel to 36mm filters. And things get expensive very quick.. especially if you go for 3nm narrowband filters.

You are right that widefield will open up a whole new list of targets.
So I'd get a small refractor. Nothing crazy. William optics Redcat 51/71, Omegon 61/335 or other scopes around the 250-300mm. Or a very popular (and cheap) option: the Samyang/Rokinon 135mm F2.

Ideally you'd want a larger sensor/chip for wide field instead to the small 1600MM. It helps the FOV a lot. (for example, my 2600MM on my 400mm scope has almost the same field of view as my 183MM on my 250mm scope). If you want a wide field, definitely go into Stellarium or other software that allows you to put in the details of the 1600MM, and the different focal lengths. And then see what kind of framing and targets you'd like to capture to see what kind of focal length suits your needs.

I do say "ideally" you'd want a bigger chip. But it's not needed. Remember that this is a hobby.. things don't have to be pixel perfect. And like you said, you don't have to be silly. and you can do widefield just fine with a 1600MM by going a little wider in focal length.
There is a lot of high end stuff with Takahashi scopes, 10 micron mounts and other bits where you can build a rig that's worth more than most houses.. but.. it's a hobby.. Sure you can get a 10.000+ pound scope. And a mount that has the weight capacity that you could mount a chair on and sit next to your scope and it still guides perfect. But I doubt you'll really notice the difference if you'll be using it with a 1600MM..

Either way, after the mount + camera, I'd get a simple extra 50mm guide scope and guide camera (120/290MM)-
And I'd run 2 rigs at minimal expense.

- 200 PDS + 2600MM + new mount
- small refactor/lens + 1600MM + HEQ5

Having more than 1 rig has made the biggest difference to my astrophotography.
Being able to make the best use of the clear night by going for multiple targets at once really speeds things up and probably gives you a lot of "bang for the buck"

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Michael Ring

Aug 1, 2022 · Edited: Aug 1, 2022

Very much agree to Steven…
I would save a huge amount of the money for the moment (besides the already mentioned gift for the other one) and spend money only on one or two new cameras with an imx571 sensor (asi2600) be it mono or color version and matching 36mm filters + filter wheel and would also spend some money for a widefield refractor in the 200-400mm range.

I‘d not invest in a new mount atm as your HEQ5 seems to work pretty decent after your mods and there will be more and more mounts in the style of the am5 from zwo on the market and they seem to be the future, but are currently either very expensive or not yet well tested in the field.

Reason for the cameras is that the difference in quality to the 1600 will be significant, you will enjoy re-taking targets just because those 16bits give you so much more details….

If you still feel the itch to spend more money go for a edge hd 9.25 plus starizona so that you can image at F2.3, you will be all set for now, the HEQ5 can (barely) take the load and is ok for the resulting 525mm focal length and when it is time for next galaxy season you can buy that new mount that will be able to cope with the edge hd at native focal length or 0.7x reduced.

If going for the edge hd I‘d definitely stay with the widefield refractor in the 200-300mm range so that you do not have to much overlap in focal length (my 400mm Esprit and my Edge HD with 525mm are very similar in FL, they can both be used for the same targets, but the Edge HD is way more fun….)

Michael

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Michael Ring

Aug 1, 2022

One comment on having 2nd mount:
Yes, it is worth a lot, I recently bought a Sky Adventurer GTI as my 3rd active mount, now waiting for my 200mm F4 lens to arrive for some serious wide field imaging..
I often drive up to 1600m to my favorite darkish site, beeing able to capture with several units makes those drives a lot more efficient, I have now enough targets to process to bring me over those cloudy/rainy/foggy weeks of the year.

Michael

Concise

Chris White- Overcast Observatory

Aug 1, 2022

I'd second a nice mount with absolute encoders. I'm using Astro-Physics, but being on that side of the pond I think 10um is also a good option (So is AP but the wait list is years).

Hasan

Aug 1, 2022

I have quite a few mounts for each type of my scopes - and I enjoy each of them in due circumstances… including travel.

Daniel Arenas

Aug 4, 2022

Andy Wray:
#2: Maybe get a decent, although affordable refractor for wide-field astrophotography. I've never had one, so would welcome suggestions

Hi, @Andy Wray,

I have a Skywatcher Esprit ED80 f/5 (it comes with its field flattener). It's an 400 mm refractor triplet SUPER APO. I'm very happy with it, but it's true that it's my first telescope. If you have more budget, or you like even more quality, maybe you can go for a quintuplet refractor or something like that. You must check, but I think that the weight of the Esprit ED80 is ok for your mount.

Of course, you can go for an EQ6-R Pro, in fact I have one, but you'll improve the stability not the image quality. So it depends on what you want to point your focus. If you want to continue with your mount or to improve the image quality (ve careful with the weight your mount can support). If you have a budget for all, then go for all!

In my non-expert opinion, you have a good camera enough for some more years.

Cheers

Christian Großmann

Aug 4, 2022

Hi Andy,

personally, I can't give you any suggestion where to go. Your budget is impressive, but because personally I can't afford higher end equipment (maybe in the future), I don't look much at things outside my reach. But because of some problems I had so far, I'd like to add some thoughts to keep you from beeing trapped while selecting your new equipment.

I own a color camera with the same sensor as the 1600 has. I don't use it much, because I bought two more cameras (ASI183MM and ASI294MM). The image quality especially with the 294MM is much better than the older 1600 sensor. So buying a new camera may truely be a step up from where you are now. It's not that the ASI1600 is a bad camera, but things are much easier with a newer sensor. But be careful. I own a TS-Optics Photon 8" Newt. I guess it is quite similar to the 200PDS. Their image circle is not made for every sensor. APS-C-sized sensors are possibly the limit here.

The HEQ5 already is a good mount. I won't necessarily suggest upgrading to an EQ6-R. I own one and although I think that it is better, you soon will be limited again. You should get a step ahead to another class of mounts (at least EQ8 or similar or the suggested ones above). At least, that's what I would do.

Going wide is really a nice plan. I love widefield images a lot. It's much easier to collect quality subs, because the mount must not be as precise as for longer focal lengths. I bought a small corrected APO and the image quality is amazing, although it is not a high end one. I don't mind about star spikes, but the stars from my little APO are much nicer than the ones from my Newt.

Going to a new high budget/ high power setup usually means to buy a complete new system. At least the mount, the scope and the camera had to match. Seeing is a limiting factor, too (sometimes it does not make sense to buy a scope with a really long focal length). Although I would love to buy such a setup, I propably may regret it. Maybe it is because I am limited, but I am quite happy with the things I own and after some experiments in the past, I soon realized that my current rig is really usable.

Saying this and rethinking about my way to where I am at right now, I already had spent a lot during the last years. If I sum up all the filters, focusers, wheels, cameras, scopes and mounts I bought, I may have easily reached your budget. So maybe, I already am a very lucky guy

. That's a whole new view at myself…

So let us know what you've done. It would be very interesting. I am sure you will like your new toys, no matter what they will be.

CS

Christian

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