ZWO AM5 first light plus a few issues - Forums

Topic starter

Jul 31, 2022

First light with my new ZWO AM5.

Here are some subs that it took last night to test out the new mount.

North American Nebula - HA @ 3 minutes
Eagle & Omega Nebulas - HA @ 5 minutes
Andromed - L @ 10 minutes

Seeing was below average
Transparency was below average

Comparing the AM5 to my Celestron CGEM:
Winners
Setup --> AM5 (single power cord to mount and then to ASIAIR Plus, light weight)

Ease of Use --> AM5 (PA adjustments were easier, Guiding Calibration was smooth, more)

There was some issues.

For starters, it seems I had to reboot ASIAIR a number of times throughout the night. I used the ASIAIR the 2 nights before on my CGEM without any issues.

The power output from the ASIAIR also had some voltage issues when getting power from the AM5.

There was some sort of flip that happened when I was taking some test subs of Andromeda. My telescope camera ran into the tripod leg. It shouldn't be an issue once I get my pier extenders, but there was no way to back it out manually. The hand controller wouldn't move the scope enough for me to reverse. I had to unplug my camera and slide the scope up in The cradle. After that, I was able to use the hand controller. I had the scope return to the Home Position and started the Polar Alignment again. The system kept crashing. I shut down the ASIAIR and the AM5 and let then rest for a minute.

After the rest, I was able to PA again.

Overall I was greatly surprised. Teardown was fast. Almost too fast. I kept thinking that I missed some things because the amount of equipment is about half of what I normally have to pack.

#ZWO #zwoam5mount #zwoasiairplus
#astrophotography #andromeda #zwoam5

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kuechlew

Jul 31, 2022

Thank you for your report, looking forward to further experience reports by you and other users. I'm watching the release of these new harmonic mounts by various vendors with huge interest and sympathy. Given that this is the very first mount of ZWO at all, it's to be expected that there will be some - hopefully minor - glitches. The same will hold for products of other vendors to some extend since none of them has experience with harmonic drives so far. It will be interesting to see how fast the vendors will react to these issues.

I'll still wait with my own decision on a full-fledged portable mount until at least 2nd quarter of next year. I hope the smoke will settle until then.

Clear skies
Wolfgang

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AstroHannes68

Jul 31, 2022

Hello Together,

I'm also looking forward to get an harmic drive system ... at the moment I check daily the
Pegasus Harmonic Drive Mount https://pegasusastro.com/products/nyx-101-harmonic-gear-mount/

Does anybody have some test results or eaven tested it?

CS,
Johannes

Loran Hughes

Jul 31, 2022

I also have the AM5. I'm running it with the Pegasus Astro Powerbox Advance, a mini PC, and NINA. The power output on the AM5 doesn't supply enough amperage for the Powerbox, so I run my 12v battery directly into the Powerbox and power the AM5 from the Powerbox. That works pretty well. The entire unit is really light and stable. The ASCOM driver is a little quirky in the you have to manually sync the time from the PC, but I hear an update will be out soon. I was able to shoot fairly decent 10-minute subs with my William Optics GT-81 and ASI533MC Pro. I was running PHD2 with 2-sec intervals, but read later that I should have been using 1-sec intervals (I'll try that next time). My camera came real close to the tripod leg without the pier extension (which I've since received).

CS,
Loran

NGC 6960, 20x600s

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nelson

Aug 1, 2022

Dang it Loran Hughes, those are some sexy pictures , im also looking forward to the AM5 and all and every info i get .thank you keep them pics coming

kuechlew

Aug 1, 2022

AstroHannes68:
Hello Together,

I'm also looking forward to get an harmic drive system ... at the moment I check daily the
Pegasus Harmonic Drive Mount https://pegasusastro.com/products/nyx-101-harmonic-gear-mount/

Does anybody have some test results or eaven tested it?

CS,
Johannes

It's not yet on the market - expected for September.

Since this is the equipment forum for the AM5 let's please stick to the topic and wait for further user reports for this interesting mount.

Clear skies
Wolfgang

Well Written

Loran Hughes

Aug 1, 2022

nelson:
Dang it Loran Hughes, those are some sexy pictures , im also looking forward to the AM5 and all and every info i get .thank you keep them pics coming

Alas, I'm stuck under a cloud of wildfire smoke from Northern California. Unless the winds shift, I'm done for a while. I was hesitant about strain wave mounts, but the proof is in the pudding. So far, I'm really pleased with the AM5.

CS,
Loran

Well Written

surfinash

Aug 1, 2022

Loran Hughes:
I also have the AM5. I'm running it with the Pegasus Astro Powerbox Advance, a mini PC, and NINA. The power output on the AM5 doesn't supply enough amperage for the Powerbox, so I run my 12v battery directly into the Powerbox and power the AM5 from the Powerbox. That works pretty well. The entire unit is really light and stable. The ASCOM driver is a little quirky in the you have to manually sync the time from the PC, but I hear an update will be out soon. I was able to shoot fairly decent 10-minute subs with my William Optics GT-81 and ASI533MC Pro. I was running PHD2 with 2-sec intervals, but read later that I should have been using 1-sec intervals (I'll try that next time). My camera came real close to the tripod leg without the pier extension (which I've since received).

CS,
Loran

NGC 6960, 20x600s

I am using AM5 and the old pegasus powerbox. The power out seems to be fine. I am running the power out to the ASIAIR and then to the ASI2600MM. Although, it is redundant to use the pegasus powerbox once you use the ASIAIR.

surfinash

Aug 1, 2022

Here is my setup. Just got the first light over the weekend on Veil. Still capturing more light. Will post the results soon.

That is ES115CF riding with 2" EFW and 2600MM with TSRED379 reducer/flattener. Total rig weight riding on top is 11+ kg. Mount handled it without any fuss and I was at sub-0.5 arcs. guiding. Not shown in the pic - the accessory bag attached to the tripod that carried a 10 lb counterweight for stability.

Truly impressed with the tiny mount capability. I will however be looking at a used AVX tripod soon for better stability (and peace of mind, really).

John Favalessa

Sep 10, 2022 · Edited: Sep 10, 2022

From my recent post https://www.astrobin.com/q1wrya/

The ZWO AM5 Hyperbolic Harmonic! mount finally arrived after 5 months on backorder. They are starting to trickle in. I knew it was risky buying something so new and different, but my CGEM70 is getting a bit heavy for me to travel with and is more than quirky. The AM5 is rated to carry 13kg (28 pounds) without a counterweight and 20kg (44lbs) with. It came with a counterweight bar, so I installed it. I’ve found that it will take Celestron CGEM weights <= 5kg. The total weight of the mount and tripod is 8.7kg (19.2lbs). I can arm curl it! It is advised to put a weight in the tripod sack for added stability which I did. Interestingly, it does not come with a power supply, but fortunately I have several for backup. Spoiler alter – expectation exceeded!

Night 1: I used my 81gt at 8.6kg (19lbs). Setup is quick. Weirdly you do not balance. There are no clutches on RA or DEC. ZWO says there is no need to balance. Polar alignment was quick using the ASIAIR which controls everything. There is no need to star calibrate the mount as the AIR plate solves. Guiding started out good with total RMS at 0.7, but then went crazy 10+. I fooled around with it, but then shut down. Very disappointing and troubling .

Night 2: After watching a ZWO setup video (as no manuals came with the mount. That’s not unusual these days), I discovered I needed to sync the AM5 with the AIR. This step is not need when I run the AIR with my CGEM70 or iOptron CEM70. This night I also ran my WO102GT on my trusty CEM70 to compare guiding. Seeing was good. The AM5 was polar aligned, camera focused, guiding and imaging quickly. Total RMS for the night ranged between 0.6 and 0.28! This was the same values for my comparison rig. I was elated 😀.

Night 3: Last night I thought, well the AM5 can handle the weight of my 81gt, but can it handle my 102gt at 10.6kg (23.4 pounds). Up and running even quicker. Total RMS for the night was between 0.7 and 0.4. My comparison rig, iOptron CEM70 with the 81gt, total guiding was between 0.5 to 0.25. Good seeing for my bortle 7 skies. I was surprised again. I figure with a small counterweight on the AM5 with the 102gt, it will perform as well. Actually, with the 102’s focal length of 714mm and pixel size of 3.76, RMS of 0.7 is as good as I need.

So there you have it. My expectations were exceeded. I’ve got to add that slewing is amazingly quick, smooth and quiet. These hyperbolic mounts have great torque. They are a game changer for those who travel or those of us who are getting too old to handle 35lb mounts. I will need to buy a pier extension for the mount to avoid hitting the legs…on back order of course.

Anyone in the greater LA area want to buy a used Celestron CGEM70 that's been hyper tuned?

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Dan H. M.

Sep 10, 2022

John Favalessa:
From my recent post https://www.astrobin.com/q1wrya/

The ZWO AM5 Hyperbolic Harmonic! mount finally arrived after 5 months on backorder. They are starting to trickle in. I knew it was risky buying something so new and different, but my CGEM70 is getting a bit heavy for me to travel with and is more than quirky. The AM5 is rated to carry 13kg (28 pounds) without a counterweight and 20kg (44lbs) with. It came with a counterweight bar, so I installed it. I’ve found that it will take Celestron CGEM weights <= 5kg. The total weight of the mount and tripod is 8.7kg (19.2lbs). I can arm curl it! It is advised to put a weight in the tripod sack for added stability which I did. Interestingly, it does not come with a power supply, but fortunately I have several for backup. Spoiler alter – expectation exceeded!

Night 1: I used my 81gt at 8.6kg (19lbs). Setup is quick. Weirdly you do not balance. There are no clutches on RA or DEC. ZWO says there is no need to balance. Polar alignment was quick using the ASIAIR which controls everything. There is no need to star calibrate the mount as the AIR plate solves. Guiding started out good with total RMS at 0.7, but then went crazy 10+. I fooled around with it, but then shut down. Very disappointing and troubling .

Night 2: After watching a ZWO setup video (as no manuals came with the mount. That’s not unusual these days), I discovered I needed to sync the AM5 with the AIR. This step is not need when I run the AIR with my CGEM70 or iOptron CEM70. This night I also ran my WO102GT on my trusty CEM70 to compare guiding. Seeing was good. The AM5 was polar aligned, camera focused, guiding and imaging quickly. Total RMS for the night ranged between 0.6 and 0.28! This was the same values for my comparison rig. I was elated 😀.

Night 3: Last night I thought, well the AM5 can handle the weight of my 81gt, but can it handle my 102gt at 10.6kg (23.4 pounds). Up and running even quicker. Total RMS for the night was between 0.7 and 0.4. My comparison rig, iOptron CEM70 with the 81gt, total guiding was between 0.5 to 0.25. Good seeing for my bortle 7 skies. I was surprised again. I figure with a small counterweight on the AM5 with the 102gt, it will perform as well. Actually, with the 102’s focal length of 714mm and pixel size of 3.76, RMS of 0.7 is as good as I need.

So there you have it. My expectations were exceeded. I’ve got to add that slewing is amazingly quick, smooth and quiet. These hyperbolic mounts have great torque. They are a game changer for those who travel or those of us who are getting too old to handle 35lb mounts. I will need to buy a pier extension for the mount to avoid hitting the legs…on back order of course.

Anyone in the greater LA area want to buy a used Celestron CGEM70 that's been hyper tuned?

Those are really impressive results, glad to hear you are enjoying the mount.

The only reason to add a counterweight would be to avoid back-driving in case of a power failure or to prevent the tripod from tipping over (of which there should be no risk if you are extending your tripod legs an appropriate amount). A counterweight is unlikely to have any effect on tracking accuracy.

Well Written Concise

Patrick Graham

Oct 3, 2022

John, thanks for your eval. I was concerned about the counterweight issue. I have a 7 year old CGEM so it was encouraging to know that those counterweights will work for my heavier scope (SkyWatcher Esprit 150ED which weighs in at 32Lbs). I'm also at the age where toting gear around to dark sky spots is becoming tedious and unsafe, especially if I have to break down my equipment at 3 or 4 am (a permanent observatory is not feasible at this time).

Also, thinking about going full ZWO with the ASI Air Plus and EAF. Any reviews on this set up??

Patrick G.

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John Favalessa

Oct 3, 2022

The AIR pro or plus work very well with the mount. I turn on; they connect; I focus; polar align; PHD2 "lite" calibrate; goto target; set up my sequence and am imaging. I do not calibrate the mount using stars as plate solving is built in…this same lots of time. The AIR has other features. I travel and run 2 rigs this way and am imaging with both while everyone else is still working on connecting their laptops 😂. Love the fact that I can lie in bed and control with my iPads. One rig with a 2600MM and an EAF. The other with a 2600MC. The AIR does not have all the diagnostics of full PHD2 or NINA, but my guiding with average seeing is 0.5 to 0.3 total RMS in bortle 7 backyard. The AIR does have multi-star guiding with PHD2 "lite". Hope this helps. -john

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Patrick Graham

Oct 3, 2022 · Edited: Oct 3, 2022

Very impressive!! …..and helpful. I've been carrying around a 45lb mount, 20lb tripod, and a 12 lb gaming laptop so this is very appealing to me. Thanks for the quick reply!! Forgot, 40lbs of counterweights, too

Patrick

Abdulmohsen Alreesh

Oct 19, 2022

Here is my setup. Just got the first light over the weekend on Veil. Still capturing more light. Will post the results soon.

That is ES115CF riding with 2" EFW and 2600MM with TSRED379 reducer/flattener. Total rig weight riding on top is 11+ kg. Mount handled it without any fuss and I was at sub-0.5 arcs. guiding. Not shown in the pic - the accessory bag attached to the tripod that carried a 10 lb counterweight for stability.

Truly impressed with the tiny mount capability. I will however be looking at a used AVX tripod soon for better stability (and peace of mind, really).

Hello Surfinash!

beautiful set up! did you need to use a pier extender for the the telescope? I'm using an esprit 100 with a similar set up of gear and was worried it might run into the tripod legs.

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John Favalessa

Oct 19, 2022

The pier extension is really needed. I highly recommend it. ZWO should have made it part of the package. I bought from Agena. The mount has been extremely reliable, guiding 0.5 to 0.28 with my 81gt on it…still exceeding my expectations. 😀

Dan H. M.

Oct 20, 2022

Would you guys mind sharing your guiding settings when you get a chance?

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John Favalessa

Oct 20, 2022

Since I use the ASIAIR as my control computer, and it has PHD2 "lite", there are not many tweaks to the guiding parameters. It does have the multi star guiding which made a huge difference. I mostly use 2 seconds, but if windy or turbulence I go to 3 or 4secs as don't want to chase the star around. As guiding settles down and gets steady, I lower the pulse aggressiveness sometimes down to 50%. Mostly I'm at 80% to 90% for both but dec requires 100% sometimes. As far as gain on my guide camera, that doesn't seem to make a huge difference but I like to see a good peak signal on the main guide star. For my OAG on my 9.25" I always bin 2x2 on my guide camera. I use my scopes bahtinov mask to focus my guide camera usually on Vega this time of year. I've learned that "seeing" is really important to attain good guiding. if poor seeing, there is a limit on the best you can do.

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Dan H. M.

Oct 20, 2022

John Favalessa:
Since I use the ASIAIR as my control computer, and it has PHD2 "lite", there are not many tweaks to the guiding parameters. It does have the multi star guiding which made a huge difference. I mostly use 2 seconds, but if windy or turbulence I go to 3 or 4secs as don't want to chase the star around. As guiding settles down and gets steady, I lower the pulse aggressiveness sometimes down to 50%. Mostly I'm at 80% to 90% for both but dec requires 100% sometimes. As far as gain on my guide camera, that doesn't seem to make a huge difference but I like to see a good peak signal on the main guide star. For my OAG on my 9.25" I always bin 2x2 on my guide camera. I use my scopes bahtinov mask to focus my guide camera usually on Vega this time of year. I've learned that "seeing" is really important to attain good guiding. if poor seeing, there is a limit on the best you can do.

Interesting to hear you are having success with high aggression. I also seem to be successful with high aggression on my RST-135, but some insist that you must use low aggression.

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Jerry Gerber

Frequent contributor

Oct 24, 2022

Hi all,

I'm about to order the AM5. The other mount I've been considering is the Pegasus NYX-10, but it's not available yet.

Here's a question: with traditional GEM mounts I understand that the maximum payload of the mount should be approximately 1/2 the manufacturer's recommended maximum. Is this also true with the harmonic mounts?

The AM5 says that the maximum payload without counterweight is around 28lbs. Does this mean that a 20 or 22 lbs payload is pushing it too far?

Thank you!

Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com

Well Written

John Favalessa

Oct 24, 2022

good question Jerry. don't know the answer, but I did put my WO102 with reducer, guide scope, 2600MM and 120MM mini guide cameras, and focuser on the AM5 while testing with no counter weight. This rig is 19+ pounds. The guiding was just 0.1 or 0.2 worse than with my lighter 81GT rig. I was very surprised. -john

Nightly Light

Oct 28, 2022

so far so good for me. I have had the ZWO AM5 for about 1 month and have only been able to collect data on 2 targets due to weather, but during that time, I have not had any issue with the mount and in fact, the mount has provided a great experience.

Jerry Gerber

Frequent contributor

Oct 28, 2022

so far so good for me. I have had the ZWO AM5 for about 1 month and have only been able to collect data on 2 targets due to weather, but during that time, I have not had any issue with the mount and in fact, the mount has provided a great experience.

Fantastic. I ordered mine yesterday, it may take a month or longer to get it. Thanks for sharing your experience with the mount!
Jerry
www.jerrygerber.com

Well Written

nelson

Oct 28, 2022

Ordered mine in the October batch and got it last night ,but i guess i will not be imaging until next week due to weather ,but got to "inspect" it and assemble the pier and also try the AVX tripod which i read fits nicely in case you want something sturdier ,

Patrick Graham

Oct 28, 2022

Received mine earlier this week. Arrived a lot sooner than expected. Have yet to get it out, but I'm encouraged by all the positive comments and experiences. Standby for an update. I hope to set it up for 1st light this weekend.

Patrick

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