What's the right balance in terms of equipment investment? - Forums

Topic starter

Jul 27, 2022 · Edited: Jul 27, 2022

I'm just trying to work out where money should be spent on hardware for astrophotography. My balance looks like this:

HEQ5 Pro Mount: £1,000 (22%)
Skywatcher 200PDS OTA + Coma Corrector: £550 (12%)
Imaging camera ASI1600MM Pro: £1,329 (30%)
Filter wheel and filters: £770 (17%)
Guiding camera and OAG: £400 (9%)
MiniPC: £230 (5%)
Autofocuser: £190 (4%)

Total: £4,469

Would you have invested a larger proportion of your money in a different area than me?

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geosock

Jul 27, 2022

Personally, I would've put at least 35-40% on my mount, if not more. Mounts are a pain to buy/sell and ship, so I think the idea of rarely upgrading my mount is more preferable.

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kuechlew

Jul 27, 2022

I agree with geosock but as a beginner my opinion may not be worth much. While I'm still fiddling with my tracker, it's very clear that the mount is the foundation of a good rig. I'm planning to invest 3k - 4k EUR for the mount + tripod which will place it at around 50% or my overall rig (2k for the QHY268C + about 2k for scope + guiding + various stuff).

Clear skies
Wolfgang

Bob Rucker

Jul 27, 2022

For what it's worth, your hardware allocations are similar to what mine was for my first serious astrophotography investment. My equipment was as follows:

HEQ5 Pro Mount: $1,129 (22%)
Zenithstar 61 refractor with reducer/flattener: $560 (11%)
Imaging camera ASI294MM Pro: $1,480 (29%)
36mm ZWO EFW with Optolong LRGBSHO filter set: $1,081 (21%)
Williams Optics 50mm Uniguide scope with ASI120MM mini guide camera: $354 (7%)
ZWO ASIAIR Plus: $299 (6%)
ZWO EAF: $199 (4%)

Total: $5,102

From my experience, I found that this set-up/proportion for a beginning mono imaging rig is hard to beat. I do not have any regrets on how I allocated these expenditures but with the clarity of hindsight, I do wish I would have increased the initial outlay a bit and purchased a Skywatcher EQ6-R Pro mount. Now that I'm starting to get the hang of things and considering future telescope upgrades, the payload limit of the HEQ5 Pro is limiting my options. Oh well, this regret is easy enough to fix with more money!

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Jonathan Piques

Jul 28, 2022

If this is your first AP setup, this is a pretty good starting point. That said, if there’s a way to spring for maybe a slightly better mount, I’d give it a shot. I might also consider a refractor instead of a Newtonian. Don’t get me wrong, I love Newts and currently use one, but a) they’re way larger and more unwieldy, which will put more of a strain on your entry level mount, particularly if there is any kind of wind, and b) the entry level Newts can be a little fussier and have more tilt in the image train, not hold collimation as well, etc… They’re also tough to balance perfectly, which again, will be more of a problem with a beginner mount. It’s not like a Newtonian is a bad choice per se, but I think as your first scope I would strongly recommend a smaller refractor, as you will likely get better results more quickly and more consistently.

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Yusra Q.

Jul 28, 2022 · Edited: Jul 28, 2022

I agree with all of the above. I started and still have an heq5, but if i could go back in time I would go for a bigger investment in the mount because as stated above even my upgrade options are limited because oh heq5

Coolhandjo

Feb 21, 2023

Great question - Obviously you need to spend the money you have set aside and can afford. If you had lots of cash you would choose higher end equipment. However - I would think about the journey rather than the end goal. Astrophotography is an enjoyable learning curve. Lower end affordable equipment actually give you an opportunity to step through the stages and refine your skills without actually being dependent on the quality of your equipment. I actually admire images that are excellent taken with low end equipment because I know the skill required was high. I've been imaging for years and years and I'm glad I didn't start at the high end because I would more than likely have gotten bored real quickly.

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Tim McCollum

Feb 21, 2023

I'm almost 67 and have decided this will be my retirement hobby, with that thought in mind I bought a 10 Mircon GM2000 mount saying it will see me out.
I now have an Avalon M-Uno just sitting around needing a new home.
It was 7k when I bought it but still no where as good as the 10 Micron.
The point is get all the mount your budget can stand if you are in it for the long haul.
Tim

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Brian Boyle

Feb 21, 2023

A great question and some really great feedback. If I ignore one thing, it very much reflects my expenditure distribtion.

The one thing ignored, is a permanent home for all of the above.

If was- by far - the most expensive item for me. But it made all the difference to my enjoyment and efficiency.

If you can, I would think about putting that on your list as part of your AP journey.

Brian

Stefan Pfleger

Feb 21, 2023

If you havent gotten a mortgage yet on your house, you haven't spent enough yet XD.

Jokes aside, I think your current investment is already a well balanced setup, if I had anything to point out, its probably that your mount is a bit on the low end for such a big scope, however a lot of people make it work.

Anderl

Feb 24, 2023

I think your investment plan looks pretty good ;) maybe up your budget and get an eq6r pro but the rest looks good.

well, almost. if I look the price for your filter wheel + filter I think it is pretty low. pls make sure to buy filters that are actually fun to use.
rather invest a bit more on good filters. –> astronomik seems pretty well priced for the performance.

AstroBertUK

Feb 24, 2023

My Astrophotography journey started just under a year ago when I purchased a Celestron 8SE off Ebay. A cheap DSLR too and I was off. It wasn't too long before I discovered the limitations of the default mount that comes with 8SE, so thinking ahead, I purchased second-hand EQ6-R Pro from Rother Valley Optics. I've purchased many other additions since then, but I think that investment in the mount has paid for itself many times over, with the original mount lying unused in the garden shed.

So, inline with pretty much everyone else in here, spend as much as you can on a good reliable mount.

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Jason Schella

Feb 24, 2023

The mount is the single most important piece of equipment. A good mount can make the hobby much more enjoyable. Most problems people have with their images relate back to bad tracking/guiding. And most time lost imaging is due to the mount (clouds being the exception). Rarely is the camera or telescope at fault.

Just my opinion tho.

Cheers,

Jason

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nikolashodges

Feb 24, 2023 · Edited: Feb 24, 2023

somebody who knows a thing or two once said

"The single most important item for the imager is the mount. Next comes the mount. Then comes the mount.... Get the picture?"

im inclined to agree

dkamen

Feb 24, 2023

Jason Schella:
The mount is the single most important piece of equipment. A good mount can make the hobby much more enjoyable. Most problems people have with their images relate back to bad tracking/guiding. And most time lost imaging is due to the mount (clouds being the exception). Rarely is the camera or telescope at fault.

Just my opinion tho.

Cheers,

Jason

It also tends to give the biggest return of investment. A 3000 euro telescope usually is not 4 times better than a 750 euro telescope of similar aperture and f/ratio. With mounts the difference is tremendous. Even between 1500 and 750.

Rod Hughes

Feb 24, 2023

The telescope mount is the most important piece of hardware you can own. A mount with absolute encoders is a must-have for taking very long exposures. I'm using a 10Micron GM1000HPS mount and rarely need any external guiding when taking 20-min subs. The ASI1600MM Pro is a good camera, but the ASI294MM Pro is much better.

Best wishes with your adventure into astrophotography,

Rod

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Pistachio_Enjoyer

Feb 25, 2023

From my personal experience, I would advise you get a slightly larger mount. The HEQ5 is just about enough to handle an 8" newt, but an EQ6 is much more suitable for the task. I started with a 6" newt and never used a refractor. The learning curve was a bit more steep, but in time I figured things out as well.

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Pistachio_Enjoyer

Feb 25, 2023

Rod Hughes:
The telescope mount is the most important piece of hardware you can own. A mount with absolute encoders is a must-have for taking very long exposures. I'm using a 10Micron GM1000HPS mount and rarely need any external guiding when taking 20-min subs. The ASI1600MM Pro is a good camera, but the ASI294MM Pro is much better.

Best wishes with your adventure into astrophotography,

Rod

Mounts with absolute encoders aren't a must-have for long-exposures. Most mounts don't even have incremental encoders, but rather count the number of steps the stepper motor has moved. I own an EQ6-R and an EQ8, both of which have periodic error correction where you can build a PEC curve to compensate for the mount's inherent PE. Issues with regards to backlash and slip can generally be resolved with a bit of mechanical tinkering. Combined with autoguiding and you'll have saved thousands on buying a mount with absolute encoders, which really just remove the headache of tinkering around with your equipment for optimal performance. I will agree though that the 294MM is better than the 1600MM.

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Jason Schella

Feb 25, 2023

Rod Hughes:
The telescope mount is the most important piece of hardware you can own. A mount with absolute encoders is a must-have for taking very long exposures. I'm using a 10Micron GM1000HPS mount and rarely need any external guiding when taking 20-min subs. The ASI1600MM Pro is a good camera, but the ASI294MM Pro is much better.

Best wishes with your adventure into astrophotography,

Rod

Mounts with absolute encoders aren't a must-have for long-exposures. Most mounts don't even have incremental encoders, but rather count the number of steps the stepper motor has moved. I own an EQ6-R and an EQ8, both of which have periodic error correction where you can build a PEC curve to compensate for the mount's inherent PE. Issues with regards to backlash and slip can generally be resolved with a bit of mechanical tinkering. Combined with autoguiding and you'll have saved thousands on buying a mount with absolute encoders, which really just remove the headache of tinkering around with your equipment for optimal performance. I will agree though that the 294MM is better than the 1600MM.

I agree, encoders are only necessary if you "need" to do unguided exposures. I have a iOptron CEM120 without encoders and get <0.3" total rms guiding all night, every night. In 1.8-2.0 " seeing. I would only need better if my seeing was below 1.2". I don't use PEC correction either, since it is small enough that Phd2 easily takes care of it.

Jason

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George Sinanis

Feb 25, 2023 · Edited: Feb 25, 2023

My 2 cents here is more or less what the previous people said:

The mount is the most important part of any astrophotography rig - the one that is super future proof (as it can handle with ease up to 20kg) is the Sky-Watcher EQ6R Pro
I would also start with an OSC (one shot camera) as the ASI533MC Pro or the ASI294MC Pro and not bother right now for mono. At the beginning you should eliminate all possible frictions and focus on what is most important - to gather light and acquire long exposure subs.
Finally, a reflector telescope is the most demanding of all telescopes that you can buy. I would always choose a good refractor (e.g. WO Z73 + flattener, WO GT71/81 + flattener, WO Redcat51/71, Sky-Watcher Evolux 82ED+flattener, Askar FRA300, Sharpstar 76EDPH+ flattener and etc)

You will still be on or even above the budget you mentioned.

Remember, that the rig is only one part (variable) of the whole equation - you will need to also worry for Polar Alignment, capture software (NINA, Sequence Generator, etc) or if you will be using Asiair+, processing software and even how you will power up the whole rig..... things that, no now told me and I had to figure out by myself and hours after hours of watching YouTube videos and reading around.

just start and enjoy with the least complication - the night skies are beautiful and you have so many wonders to view and capture!

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Tim Ray

Feb 25, 2023

Looks like you have assembled a fine rig. I have used filter wheels and have since switched to a filter drawer arrangement to save off-axis weight and save stress on the focuser. The mount is a little light for a 200. Also I like guide scopes (finder with a asi120mini) for this FL, it also saves weight on the focuser vs an OAG. A PoleMaster or a good software polar alignment routine will help. NINA, PHD and Siril will keep software costs (all are free) to a minimum. Maybe a more rigid pier (home made) instead of the HEQ tripod will help. I use a dog pen with tarps to protect equipment from wind gusts. A EQ6, CEM60, CGX would be preferred for that OTA. Keep your exposures short and start taking subs. Good Luck and CS!!!

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Nick Grundy

Mar 17, 2023

Keep in mind, the weight of your rig matters a lot too. I started with the EQ6R-Pro and although it's a great mount, it's a beast to haul in and out regularly. I also ended up outgrowing the capacity

What's helped me feel better about all the money spent, is that most of this stuff is more like a lease than a purchase and throw away. With resale being solid, you usually aren't losing more than 20% on a new item. At least I keep telling myself this :-)

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Pariah

Mar 17, 2023

Jason Schella:
The mount is the single most important piece of equipment. A good mount can make the hobby much more enjoyable. Most problems people have with their images relate back to bad tracking/guiding. And most time lost imaging is due to the mount (clouds being the exception). Rarely is the camera or telescope at fault.

Just my opinion tho.

Cheers,

Jason

It also tends to give the biggest return of investment. A 3000 euro telescope usually is not 4 times better than a 750 euro telescope of similar aperture and f/ratio. With mounts the difference is tremendous. Even between 1500 and 750.

Yep. I bought a Vixen SXD2 after looking at the clones. It's been flawless so far. And it is manufactured to far better standards

Doug Summers

Mar 17, 2023

Agree with all who indicate that the mount is #1. Thinking slightly out of the box after that item, I'd suggest you think about how much time you're going to invest. Do you really want to go down the road of filter work, or should you think about OSC? Not trying to start a flame war over this, but it's something to consider. In any case, you might save some bucks where you could invest in better software and post-processing hardware. I'll note I spend about as much time post-processing as I do in capturing data.

FWIW, I think tools like PI, BXT and SXT are suddenly critical, and the requirement to have a GPU based PC for post-processing almost as important. You've got roughly the right balance, but I'd up your SW and post-processing HW allocation to help the overall balance….

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