N.I.N.A. and remote observation - Forums

Hello there,

I am a happy and enthusiastic ASIAIR user. However, there are some new features around aberration und tilt measurement in NINA that would help me a lot. Also, support for others focussers would be nice. So I am contemplating the migration from ASIAIR to NINA.

My main concern about NINA is that my use case might not be covered (well) by NINA: With ASIAIR I use an android tablet to control the image aquisition process and to see image previews. I am only (and need to be) at the telescope during polar alignment. Later I am in my office located 500m away and I have an ultrafast W60G GBit Link between the ASIAIR and the office for that. Also, the aquired images are automatically transferred to my Linux workstation for processing. I dont use Windows.

With NINA I was always under the impression that, since it unfortuatelly is build on MS Windows, you need to be physically present at the NINA PC and telescope to control it, including having a keyboard, mouse and monitor available there, also in temperatures of -20C. I know that it is technically possible to "mirror" the screen of a PC with VNC and other software to a tablet or another PC. Earlier I made some tests with Stellarmate, which uses VNC and I found the solution horrible usability-wise with lots of problems with mouse positioning and performance when previewing and manual focusing, and completelly unusable on a tablet.

So what is the real situation with NINA now ? Maybe some NINA users can convince me that my use case is covered and to give it a try. I would be most delighted.

Thank you

Götz

I have a mini PC (no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor) running NINA, size about 2x as big as the asiair. It is connected to my WLAN. I operate
the mini-PC from inside the house using laptop or ipad via remote desktop.

Matthias

I have a mini PC (no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor) running NINA, size about 2x as big as the asiair. It is connected to my WLAN. I operate
the mini-PC from inside the house using laptop or ipad via remote desktop.

Matthias

Hi Matthias, can you do the polar alignment with the ipad ?

Hi Götz,

I have to say that NINA matured quite rapidly in recent months into a very good state. For remote connection, you can use Microsoft's Remote Desktop. No need to use any thirdparty solutions. I assume that there's also a native app from MS for Android to connect to the PC. It runs very smooth, given a reasonable network speed (very weak WLANs can always be an issue, no matter what one's using). No need for IO devices on the remote computer. I'm also sitting in my house infront of my MacBook and access the scope as if I were sitting beside of it.

NINA has a webinterface plugin (which I am not using at the moment) which shows the current progress. I think it doesn't have control capabilities yet, but I would have to update myself on this regards.

For your main concerns: no need to sit in the cold dark and given a reasonable network connection a pretty smooth user interface through MS Remote Desktop.

For a computer, I'm using a mini PC with a Celeron CPU. So no extreme performance requiremenets for DSO (even for planetary the frame rate is pretty high on this hardware). You get a device like that for 150 to 200 Euro.

CS,
Björn

PS: just saw your second question: I'm using iPolar (iOptron mount) and it runs smoothly on the small PC and remote desktop.

I have a mini PC (no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor) running NINA, size about 2x as big as the asiair. It is connected to my WLAN. I operate
the mini-PC from inside the house using laptop or ipad via remote desktop.

Matthias

I do the same thing here using Wifi to connect to the scope miniPC. Performance is quite good using RDC. I save all captures on a SSD at the scope.

Götz Golla:
I have a mini PC (no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor) running NINA, size about 2x as big as the asiair. It is connected to my WLAN. I operate
the mini-PC from inside the house using laptop or ipad via remote desktop.

Matthias

Hi Matthias, can you do the polar alignment with the ipad ?

absolutely!

Götz Golla:
I have a mini PC (no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor) running NINA, size about 2x as big as the asiair. It is connected to my WLAN. I operate
the mini-PC from inside the house using laptop or ipad via remote desktop.

Matthias

Hi Matthias, can you do the polar alignment with the ipad ?

absolutely!

If it's not a burden for you, tell the steps, pls

Raquel Williams:
Götz Golla:
I have a mini PC (no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor) running NINA, size about 2x as big as the asiair. It is connected to my WLAN. I operate
the mini-PC from inside the house using laptop or ipad via remote desktop.

Matthias

Hi Matthias, can you do the polar alignment with the ipad ?

absolutely!

If it's not a burden for you, tell the steps, pls

I connect my ipad with the mini pc via the rdc app (or laptop, whatever suits me better that day) and start the 3pt polar alignment. then I go to the scope and finetune az and height and verify the results on my ipad until I am happy. Usually, it is purely passive, ie no input needed on the ipad (but I can if I need to) If the initial guess was off by more than 1deg or so, I usually rerun the 3pt polar alignment again, in particular if I want to go to sub arcmin alignments (I usually image at long focal length)

Björn Arnold:
Hi Götz,

I have to say that NINA matured quite rapidly in recent months into a very good state. For remote connection, you can use Microsoft's Remote Desktop. No need to use any thirdparty solutions. I assume that there's also a native app from MS for Android to connect to the PC. It runs very smooth, given a reasonable network speed (very weak WLANs can always be an issue, no matter what one's using). No need for IO devices on the remote computer. I'm also sitting in my house infront of my MacBook and access the scope as if I were sitting beside of it.

NINA has a webinterface plugin (which I am not using at the moment) which shows the current progress. I think it doesn't have control capabilities yet, but I would have to update myself on this regards.

For your main concerns: no need to sit in the cold dark and given a reasonable network connection a pretty smooth user interface through MS Remote Desktop.

For a computer, I'm using a mini PC with a Celeron CPU. So no extreme performance requiremenets for DSO (even for planetary the frame rate is pretty high on this hardware). You get a device like that for 150 to 200 Euro.

CS,
Björn

PS: just saw your second question: I'm using iPolar (iOptron mount) and it runs smoothly on the small PC and remote desktop.

So you dont have the NUC-Option on your IOptron mount. Since I am also contemplating to buy a CEM70, I was reading about the Intel NUC PCs. I found them powerful, but also very expensive and the NUC-Option of the IOptron costs another few hundred EUR. So we are talking about > 1000EUR extra. A mini PC for 150 - 200 EUR sounds much better

The Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) is a general standard, so I hope RDP will also work from a Linux workstation to NINA.

The last "concern" I have is how to get the images from NINA to my Linux workstation while the observation is running. It probably can be done with some file sync tool.

there is a NINA plugin "remote copy"

Hi
I run a intel nuc on my refractor and a laptop as client.
windows rdp runs only in the professional version.
NINA works perfect for me.
At home I work with the home-wlan and in the field I use the hot spot of the nuc (generate a own wlan).
For the data management I use the nina plugin remote copy which duplicate my files from the nuc to my laptop via the wlan. I copy also all the logfiles from the session to the laptop.
See all this stuff on youtube under „patriotastro“. The last 3 videos shows the whole setup for remote astro. Also the replication of all the log files (phd2, nina, gss) you can find there.
For me it is one of the best sources for nina, plugins and remote working.
Ed

If you are wanting to stick to Linux, you should check out Indi.

I run the drivers on a nuc and the imaging software ekos, on my workstation in my office.

(I have full software on the nuc, for remote sessions, then do a wifi hotspot on mobile and VNC onto the nuc.)

Indi has really good polar alignment and blind plate solves, with fully automated wake capture sleep scheduler, for observatory class setup. (with everything inbetween)

It is all open source, so you can tinker with stuff if you want, written in C.

OK, I admit I am a Windows person, however I would recommend a mini Windows 11 PC to control your equipment accessed via RDP remotely (either wifi or LAN). I bought a Mele Quieter3 Mini PC running Windows 11 and it has more than enough power to run all the usual stuff (NINA, PHD2, SharpCap, Stellarium etc.). I personally sync using Robocopy, but I am sure there are ways to do the same to your main Linux PC. FWIW: RDP gives a pretty seamless experience in terms of controlling the PC remotely. I've even watched Netflix/YouTube stuff over it whilst controlling the scope.

As you can see, there are a lot of folks running a mini PC at the scope and remotely controlling from another location. I run the Quieter3Q as do many others, and it runs NINA, ASTAP, PHD2, iOptron iPolar and Commander, SharpCap, and Stellarium in Windows 11. I can use the MS Remote Desktop app on my Android tablet to connect to the mini PC. The tablet is fine for running something like iPolar and for monitoring the imaging progress with NINA, but I use a laptop to get the imaging session set up and running (because it's more convenient). I let the images accumulate on the mini PC and transfer them the next morning with a USB drive, but you could certainly set up some sort of network transfer scheme. I like this arrangement a lot and wouldn't consider changing to an ASIAir.

Well, I have bought a Mini-PC and just installed NINA on it. Up to now, its a pain. I spent the whole afternoon installing software and drivers for my equipment.
The following problems occured:

My main Camera is detected (ASI 6200MM) but my guide camera is not (ASI 120MM).
The ASI automatic focuser EAF is also not detected
I installed the ASCOM Drivers of ZWO, but this doesnt help. Neither the EAF not the ASI120MM are reachable.
Why is it necessay to use yet another programm (PhD) for guiding ?
I didnt see the multi-star guiding option in PhD or NINA ? Does it exist ?
It seems that filter names in the filter wheel settings are always slot0, slot1, slot2... I didnt find a way to give them real names ?
Controlling NINA (and PhD) from a tablet with rdesktop my be doable, but it is a real pain since these programs are not written for this use-case.
Controlling NINA from a smartphone is impossible

This is just a first impression. I hope to solve at least some of the problems.

Both my ZWO cameras are detected by both NINA and PHD2. Make sure you've installed the camera driver from ZWO. I also have the ZWO ASCOM drivers installed for the cameras and filter wheel but I'm not sure I'm even using them. I don't have access to my imaging gear at the moment or I'd provide more details. But both NINA and PHD2 will detect both cameras and allow you to choose.

Re PHD2, why would you not want to use it? It's best in class, and it doesn't make sense for NINA not to use it. Click the "brain" button in PHD2's main display to access settings and you'll find the options for multi-star guiding as well as adaptive PEC.

It is indeed possible to rename filter slots, as well.

You're right about a smart phone not being usable with NINA. I guess that's the price you pay for the significant advantages it has over ASIAIR. It may not seem like it after just installing it, but spend some time with it and you'll see. Check out the YouTube videos from Cuiv the Lazy Geek and others and you'll see what I mean.

Dave Ek:
Both my ZWO cameras are detected by both NINA and PHD2. Make sure you've installed the camera driver from ZWO. I also have the ZWO ASCOM drivers installed for the cameras and filter wheel but I'm not sure I'm even using them. I don't have access to my imaging gear at the moment or I'd provide more details. But both NINA and PHD2 will detect both cameras and allow you to choose.

Re PHD2, why would you not want to use it? It's best in class, and it doesn't make sense for NINA not to use it. Click the "brain" button in PHD2's main display to access settings and you'll find the options for multi-star guiding as well as adaptive PEC.

It is indeed possible to rename filter slots, as well.

You're right about a smart phone not being usable with NINA. I guess that's the price you pay for the significant advantages it has over ASIAIR. It may not seem like it after just installing it, but spend some time with it and you'll see. Check out the YouTube videos from Cuiv the Lazy Geek and others and you'll see what I mean

Thank you, maybe its a problem of the Mini-PC that the EAF and 120MM are not detected. They dont appear in USBView, even though they are connected to the USB Ports (USB3 for 120MM and USB2.0 for EAF.
This will be something for the coming days. For now I will switch back to ASIAIR for the coming clear night.

Some better news: I switched the ASI 6200 and 120 on the two USB3.0 ports and now both are detected.

The EAF is not detected when its connected via the ASI6200 build-in USB hub. @Dave Ek : Are you using the USB hub of the ASI6200 or is all your equipment directly connected to your PC ?

My main camera is an ASI533MM Pro, but yes I connect my 290MM mini and EFW through it with no problems.

Dave Ek:
My main camera is an ASI533MM Pro, but yes I connect my 290MM mini and EFW through it with no problems.

Thanks again. Looks like a hardware problem on my side, not a NINA problem.

Having spent one full evening I never get back debugging the exact same issue of EAF and other usb devices connected to the main camera not recognized by windows, I can hopefully help you: if the main camera is not connected to a usb3 port, it does not enable the usb hub at all. I use a Pegasus Powerbox Advance and despite it having a “usb3 hub” and all of the physical ports being the blue variety, in fact only two of the four ports are usb3 so you can probably guess where I had the camera connected initially…

Otto Vehviläinen:
Having spent one full evening I never get back debugging the exact same issue of EAF and other usb devices connected to the main camera not recognized by windows, I can hopefully help you: if the main camera is not connected to a usb3 port, it does not enable the usb hub at all. I use a Pegasus Powerbox Advance and despite it having a “usb3 hub” and all of the physical ports being the blue variety, in fact only two of the four ports are usb3 so you can probably guess where I had the camera connected initially…

My problem was a different one. Since without the ASIAIR there is no 12V four port power distributor anymore I used the last 12v connector of my CEM70 to connect the EAF. However, I found that his port is not powered unless you connect it to seperate 12V power source. So this was a CEM70 issue.

With the ASIAIR I had everything working in one small box. Now this is a mess of an unsuitable OS, drivers, various software from different sources, various hardware devices and cabling. It remains to be seen if it is worth it.

Götz Golla:
Otto Vehviläinen:
Having spent one full evening I never get back debugging the exact same issue of EAF and other usb devices connected to the main camera not recognized by windows, I can hopefully help you: if the main camera is not connected to a usb3 port, it does not enable the usb hub at all. I use a Pegasus Powerbox Advance and despite it having a “usb3 hub” and all of the physical ports being the blue variety, in fact only two of the four ports are usb3 so you can probably guess where I had the camera connected initially…

My problem was a different one. Since without the ASIAIR there is no 12V four port power distributor anymore I used the last 12v connector of my CEM70 to connect the EAF. However, I found that his port is not powered unless you connect it to seperate 12V power source. So this was a CEM70 issue.

With the ASIAIR I had everything working in one small box. Now this is a mess of an unsuitable OS, drivers, various software from different sources, various hardware devices and cabling. It remains to be seen if it is worth it.

Once you get everything sorted its a pleasure to work with. With regards to the power issue I added a Pegasus Ultimate Powerbox v2 for this but also to be able to log all the temps etc and it has a nice auto dew feature as well. And it acts as my USB aswell all though the CEM70 has built in USB ports i prefer to run everything through the hub.

CS Sean

NINA will be perfect for you. Run it on a low-cost Mini-PC. Use WiFi to connect to whatever you want to use to control it. I either use my laptop or my phone when I go outside to do PA or to adjust the rotation. After that I just run it from inside. You will need to ensure you have WiFi coverage for your scope - I ended up installing another WiFi router in an upstairs room window sill to get good coverage at the end of the garden.

Götz Golla:
Hello there,

I am a happy and enthusiastic ASIAIR user. However, there are some new features around aberration und tilt measurement in NINA that would help me a lot. Also, support for others focussers would be nice. So I am contemplating the migration from ASIAIR to NINA.

My main concern about NINA is that my use case might not be covered (well) by NINA: With ASIAIR I use an android tablet to control the image aquisition process and to see image previews. I am only (and need to be) at the telescope during polar alignment. Later I am in my office located 500m away and I have an ultrafast W60G GBit Link between the ASIAIR and the office for that. Also, the aquired images are automatically transferred to my Linux workstation for processing. I dont use Windows.

With NINA I was always under the impression that, since it unfortuatelly is build on MS Windows, you need to be physically present at the NINA PC and telescope to control it, including having a keyboard, mouse and monitor available there, also in temperatures of -20C. I know that it is technically possible to "mirror" the screen of a PC with VNC and other software to a tablet or another PC. Earlier I made some tests with Stellarmate, which uses VNC and I found the solution horrible usability-wise with lots of problems with mouse positioning and performance when previewing and manual focusing, and completelly unusable on a tablet.

So what is the real situation with NINA now ? Maybe some NINA users can convince me that my use case is covered and to give it a try. I would be most delighted.

Thank you

Götz

You can do exactly what you’re talking about using a windows mini PC & Remote Desktop. There is also an app that allows you remote access through your phone. I’ve run my rig this way remotely from in the house for some time. Frankly, it will be very hard for you to go back to the AISAIR once you start using the superior astronomy software tools available through a PC. NINA is the best image acquisition program out there at the moment in my view.