Polar Align Without Polaris - Good Enough for Astrophotography? - Forums

Topic starter

Jun 18, 2022

Hi Folks:

We're looking to move sometime in the next few months, and it's extremely likely that I will have no view to the North. In one case, there is a clear path from East to West, but South and North are completely obstructed.

I'm currently using an iOptron Skyguider Pro, but hoping to upgrade to to a CEM26, HEQ5 or similar (I'm siding with the CEM26 currently). I've read that there are a few ways to polar align without Polaris, including iOptron's "Polar Iterate Align". Has anyone used this method? Are these alignment methods accurate enough for astrophotography?

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to weigh-in on this!

Cheers,
Mark

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andrea tasselli

Frequent contributor

Jun 18, 2022

Mark Germani:
Hi Folks:

We're looking to move sometime in the next few months, and it's extremely likely that I will have no view to the North. In one case, there is a clear path from East to West, but South and North are completely obstructed.

I'm currently using an iOptron Skyguider Pro, but hoping to upgrade to to a CEM26, HEQ5 or similar (I'm siding with the CEM26 currently). I've read that there are a few ways to polar align without Polaris, including iOptron's "Polar Iterate Align". Has anyone used this method? Are these alignment methods accurate enough for astrophotography?

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to weigh-in on this!

Cheers,
Mark

In general, drift methods and shift methods yield very good results when applied properly. I used to do drift-align to station my mounts permanently. Nowadays I use SharpCap polar alignment routine as I can see Polaris quite well (one of the few ups of being located up North) but NINA offer a shift-alignment procedure and PHD2 a drift-alignment method that are quite OK (if set-up correctly).

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Jun 18, 2022

Hello, I actively image without polaris visible, as I shoot from a closed space balcony. If you opt for it, the HEQ5 should have a Sky-Watcher version of All-Star Polar alignment built in, which is what is on my Celestron CGEM II that I use. I've found that aligning 4-10 stars with pinpoint accuracy, polar aligning, re-star align, then polar align again does it for me. PHD's PA assistant shows consistant 30" +-10" accuracy to my polar alignment, and I get zero drift. I have no idea of how the iOptron PIA system works.

(Off-topic ahead) As for which mount to get if you want some input IMO, I'd go with the HEQ5 for the time being, as the CEM26 is very new and I've had horror stories from numerous friends. For the ones that did work, the performance was pretty much the same as the HEQ5.

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Ed Dixon

Jun 19, 2022 · Edited: Jun 19, 2022

Another option is to use an iPhone app along with a phone mount device. You can get a pretty good polar alignment with this in the middle of the day or night. It works indoors or outdoors. It looks like this:

PS Align Pro is the app I use. The phone holder is a 3D printed device that is on ThingAVerse. I have used this with my iOptron Sky Guider Pro and my AVX mount many times.

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Stjepan Prugovečki

Jun 19, 2022 · Edited: Jun 19, 2022

N.I.N.A PA routine does the job. It is a simple, quick and accurate procedure.
Btw, I had HEQ5 and now I have GEM28 (I think it costs the same as CEM26).
The performance is comparable, just GEM28 is much lighter and it is somewhat more "modern" and has more options (like iPolar, WiFi, ..) included than HEQ5

Stuart Taylor

Jun 19, 2022

Stjepan Prugovečki:
N.I.N.A PA routine does the job. It is a simple, quick and accurate procedure.
Btw, I had HEQ5 and now I have GEM28 (I think it costs the same as CEM26).
The performance is comparable, just GEM28 is much lighter and it is somewhat more "modern" and has more options (like iPolar, WiFi, ..) included than HEQ5

+1 for NINA's PA routine. It doesn't need a view of Polaris and works on every scope I've ever tried it with (you just need to tell it your focal length). And given that NINA does everything else you need (such as focus, target framing, filter changing, sequencing etc) - not to mention it's free! - I'd strongly recommend it.

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Jim Raskett

Jun 19, 2022

Another +1 for N.I.N.A.'s PA routine. I do have a view of Polaris, but I have tested the routine several times in random areas of the sky with very good results.

I know that you are leaning toward the CEM26, but if you do choose the HEQ5, I strongly recommend the Rowan belt mod kit. The kit along with tweaking the worms have really improved its performance.

Good luck!

Jim

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Arun H

Frequent contributor

Jun 19, 2022

Another plug for N.I.N.A's three point PA protocol.

I previously used the Polemaster with Sharpcap, but N.I.N.A's 3pa is more accurate, probably because it uses the larger aperture of the main scope.

christianhanke

Jun 19, 2022

Hi Mark,

I´m using a HEQ5 on the terrace without sight to Polaris. For the polar alignment I´m quite satisfied with the drift analysis in PHD. In addition I marked the correct placement of the tripod (with fixed and unchanged legs) on the terrace. With an adapter I attached a laser pointer to the pole scope and after the correct drift alignement I marked the laser spot on the wall ("artificial pole"). With this laser procedure I can easily align the mount without using the drift alignment again.

Regards Christian

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Mark Germani

Topic starter

Jun 21, 2022

Hi folks!

Thanks for all the feedback. I've heard good things about N.I.N.A. too. The only issue there is that I'm running Astroberry and connecting to it from my Mac, so it'll have to be PHD2 or whatever polar-align tool the mount has onboard. But that's useful to know if I start running things from a PC in the future.

Thanks also for your thoughts regarding CEM26/HEQ5. I'm really on-the-fence as far as the mount goes, so any and all input is appreciated!

Cheers,
Mark

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Mark Germani

Topic starter

Jun 24, 2022 · Edited: Jun 24, 2022

Ok, another question:

Has anyone tried the built-in polar align tool in EKOS? It looks like it works when Polaris is not visible. This would be handy as it’s what I use already with Astroberry.

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Miguel Morales

Jun 24, 2022

Even though I can clearly see Polaris I do live at 18 degrees north, and as such Polaris appears to the eye to be in a place other than it's actual position due to atmospheric diffraction. Hence I use the drift method of polar alignment within PHD2 which is not as simple, straight forward or as quick as using a Polemaster (or other such device) but it work excellently once one becomes thoroughly acquainted with the procedure. The accuracy of this method is really quite good and totally acceptable for use in astrophotography.

Miguel 8-)

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Bob

Oct 22, 2022 · Edited: Oct 22, 2022

Ed Dixon:
Another option is to use an iPhone app along with a phone mount device. You can get a pretty good polar alignment with this in the middle of the day or night. It works indoors or outdoors. It looks like this:

PS Align Pro is the app I use. The phone holder is a 3D printed device that is on ThingAVerse. I have used this with my iOptron Sky Guider Pro and my AVX mount many times.

@Ed Dixon, This looks great. I’ve looked for it on thingiverse.com but can’t find it. Can you provide a link?

dkamen

Oct 22, 2022

Mark Germani:
Ok, another question:

Has anyone tried the built-in polar align tool in EKOS? It looks like it works when Polaris is not visible. This would be handy as it’s what I use already with Astroberry.

Practically the same thing as NINA.

Sigga

Oct 22, 2022 · Edited: Oct 22, 2022

Ed Dixon:
Another option is to use an iPhone app along with a phone mount device. You can get a pretty good polar alignment with this in the middle of the day or night. It works indoors or outdoors. It looks like this:

PS Align Pro is the app I use. The phone holder is a 3D printed device that is on ThingAVerse. I have used this with my iOptron Sky Guider Pro and my AVX mounPS t many times.
====================
PS ALIGN excellent app! Used with SkyGuider!

Steve Ward

Oct 23, 2022

My favourite drift alignment method is this , got my HEQ5Pro to 5 minutes unguided as a test after folks told me it couldn't be done ...

https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/articles/darv-drift-alignment-by-robert-vice-r2760

Doug Summers

Oct 24, 2022

I use the Ekos PA routine regularly; it's as others have said very similar to the NINA approach, and it produces very nice results. No need for Polaris. Just point to a place in the sky anywhere that you can get 2 rotations and 3 images, and tell the routine which direction you're expecting it to move. It helps to keep moves away from a meridian flip.

So, in my case, and just for convenience (could be done other ways just as well), I move the mount to ~25 degrees altitude in the East near zero dec, tell the procedure to move west 15 degrees for each move, and then it does 3 plate solves (including 2 procedure initiated rotations). A multicolored vector is produced that makes short work of the needed knob rotations for Az & El…. Fast & effective, with only a few arcsecs of uncertainty.

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