Which refractor telescope is suitable for iOptron SkyGuider Pro? Getting into astrophotography!!

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Kanak RT avatar
Hi, I'm Kanak from Bangalore, India.

I'm new to the whole astrophotography thing. I've done a lot of research regarding it, and have asked many questions here on AstroBin. I'm thankful to everyone who answered me!

As of now I've decided to start small, so my setup includes,

Mount: iOptron SkyGuider Pro
Camera: Canon R7 (Modded)
Filters: Optolong L-Pro and L-Extreme
Accessories: ASI AIR PLUS, Celestron PowerTank, Guide Scope and Guide Camera

​​​​​​For the Primary Scope, I'm considering the RedCat 51. Are there any other scopes I can go with? Like Z73 or the new RedCat 71? To get some extra reach!?

I know that the RedCat 71 weighs more and won't be suitable for such a mount. Want to know if anyone is actually using it?
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Szoomer avatar
Kanak, I used a Z73 with my SkyGuider Pro for a year or more until I upgraded to a bigger mount.  Without guiding, I was able to get nice round stars with sub-exposures of up to 2 minutes.
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Ed Dixon avatar
I have used a Z61 many times with good results.  I also  have a GT71, but used a larger mount for that.  I think the weight limit for the SGP is 11 lb.
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Rob Kiefer avatar
I started as well with the Z61 and iOptron SkyGuider Pro , Nikon 800, MGEN3, which worked fine with up to 120s good guiding.  However, I upgraded the mount quite quickly. Never looking back…
Karl Theberge avatar
I do not own the thing, but I think that for the skyguider (this one I use to own) your best bet would be the Redcat.  There is a ton of inepensive add on, its a petzval design, its lightweigh and it is so praised by so many ppl, what could go wrong?

I got your point for reach, but really wide field is so much better as a starting point and much more forgiving.

You will enjoy it more thrust me
Mark Germani avatar
Hi Kanak!

Welcome to Astrobin! I also use the Skyguider Pro with a William Optics Zenithstar 61, and I recommend the combo, with some caveats...

The weight of the Z61, guide-scope, guide-cam, DSLR, red-dot-finder (optional, but with my Bortle-8 skies it's really helpful when star-hopping) flattener, dew-heater and DSLR is slightly above 50% of the max load of the Skyguider. Not exceeding 50% of your mount's max load is a rule of thumb for astro, and while you can bend that rule a bit when doing shorter (< 2-min) exposures, you're going to need much longer exposure times with the L-eXtreme (I need 6 minutes at ISO 800 on my Canon 600D).

Guiding will go a long way to helping to achieve longer exposures, but the clincher for me was upgrading the iOptron latitude base to the William Optics base (pick the high or low latitude based on your location). I went from tossing out 20-25% of my subs to keeping nearly ALL of them. It costs nearly as much as the guiding setup, but it's been so worth it for me.

Just my two cents! Good luck and clear skies!

Cheers,
Mark
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Thomas 🌈🦄 avatar
I have the RedCat 51 and with my Nikon D750 on it and a guide camera, the SkyGuider Pro is starting to be pretty maxxed out for exposures over 2 mins or so (I doubt that you will be able to go much more than 2 minutes anyway, even with guiding you'll likely start to experience elongated stars. Depending on your polar alignment and balancing skills, and on your sensor, you might get up to 5 minutes.

I wouldn't go much more than 250mm in focal length as it's starting to get extremely hard to frame your image because there's no way to smoothly adjust the declination axis; even with the fancy william optics vixen clamp.
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AstroUnity avatar
Another vote for the Z61. I've also started with it one a Skyguider Pro and it worked pretty well. One mistake I made and that you should definetly do is 1. dither, because otherwise you might get lots of walking noise and 2. plate solve, it's so helpful when you don't have goto.
If you want something more widefield/faster, I'd look into either the Sharpstar 61EDPH II with the 0.8x reducer (274mm @ F4.5) or the Redcat 51 (200mm @ F4.9) (don't bother with the Radian Raptor 61, it's an overpriced Sharpstar).
Hope this helps!
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Kanak RT avatar
Thank you everyone! @Szoomer @Ed Dixon @Rob Kiefer @Karl Theberge @Mark Germani @Thomas Fuchs @AstroUnity 

I honestly can't thank enough to all of you, I really appreciate you all took your time to speak to me. Even though I haven't started astrophotography yet, I already feel so lucky to be a part of this wonderful astro-community. 

I'll take all your suggestions into consideration and begin my journey soon after my graduation.

Thanks again and clear skies!
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kuechlew avatar
One additional hint. In case you didn't buy the iOptron SkyGuider Pro already there is a new product about to get released: The iOptron SkyHunter. In contrast to the SkyGuider Pro it has a declination axis. Increases tracking accuracy at the cost of additional complexity and higher price. Unfortunately these days release dates are very unreliable …

Clear skies
Wolfgang
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Carl Franklin avatar
[SNIP]

As of now I've decided to start small, so my setup includes,

Mount: iOptron SkyGuider Pro
Camera: Canon R7 (Modded)
Filters: Optolong L-Pro and L-Extreme
Accessories: ASI AIR PLUS, Celestron PowerTank, Guide Scope and Guide Camera

​​​​​​For the Primary Scope, I'm considering the RedCat 51. Are there any other scopes I can go with? Like Z73 or the new RedCat 71? To get some extra reach!?

I know that the RedCat 71 weighs more and won't be suitable for such a mount. Want to know if anyone is actually using it?

I've only been doing this for a short time (a year) but have gone through three systems trying to figure some of this stuff out. I think I finally got it right, but it took some time (and money) to do so. Hopefully what I can offer will help you save some of that money. 

Weight is the #1 issue when considering a system such as the one you've proposed. If you plan to use the iOptron SkyGuider Pro then you are dealing with a payload weight limit of 12 lbs, and maybe a little less to give you more stability.  This does not give you a lot of room for the stuff you want to add. The Camera, a Canon R7 body, has a weight of 1.3 lbs with the battery. Now add to this the OTA, which will weigh between 4 and 10 lbs, and you will find that you are very quickly running out of capacity options. 

More precisely, the Red Cat 51 weighs 1.8kg or 3.96 lbs., and that is without a reducer. For some of the shots you'll be taking you will likely use a field flattener and/or reducer that will add another .7 to 1.2 lbs to the equation. If all you use on the head of the mounting system is the  OTA + Camera + reducer then you are alright. If my figures are correct, you'd have about 3.96 + 1.3 + .8 = 5.97 lbs of the total weight for the barest system. The SkyGuider Pro should handle that, assuming you have a sturdy tripod or base. The problem, though, will show up if you start to do anything else in the equation. This would include a more powerful OTA, a guide scope, a guide camera, or other goodies that are mounted on these contraptions. 

For a quick comparison, if you swap out the Red Cat 51 for a 71, then you will bounce the weight up to 8.3lbs instead of 3.94. That means that instead o f5.97 total, you add almost 5 lbs of extra weight (new total jumping to the 11lb plus range).  Remember, this would be with a mount that is rated for only 12 lbs. 

With that in mind, let me make a couple of suggestions for you. I'm sure more knowledgeable folks, or those that simply want to push their own preferences, will jump in here, but I want to at least get out what has been working for me with a not-too-different setup. I started with a Nikon D3300 (about the same weight as the Canon), a 4" Newtonian, and a manual tripod/mount. I outgrow in the first night I used it. Within a few months, I sold part of the equipment and stepped up a 50mm AP refractor with a used Meade LXD 55 mount package. Money is the biggest issue holding me back, so I work with what I can afford. That system got me by for the last 9 months. 

Recently, I went all out (for this year at least) and purchased all new equipment which includes a William Optics Zenith Star 81, a ZWO ASI 183mc Pro (cooled CCD) for my main camera, and the Orion G3 for my guide camera, an Orion CT80 refractor as my guide scope. Let me explain my rationale for choosing these items, which can either be a guide for good or for evil depending on how you see it. 

My Meade LXD55 was a good tripod/mount system that did most of what I wanted. But it was pretty heavy and was more mount than I really needed. I'll get a bigger mount with a new telescope, later in the year, after I work in the salt mines for a few more weeks. I wanted a mount that was "goto" capable but was also Wi-Fi and GPS capable as well. In addition, I wanted it to track well, be from a manufacturer that was reliable, and be in a price range that was less than $700. That's where I turned to theiEXOS-100-2 PMC-Eight Equatorial Tracker System with WiFi and Bluetooth Compatible.  If you've not heard of the iEXOS line of equipment, don't worry. It is made for and sold as part of the Explore Scientific line. The best part, the total price was under $500!

I know, there are many who will tell you to spend 80% of your budget on the mount. I think that's a bit too higher, but I think 50% of my budget would OK. I didn't follow that advice, though. Instead, I spent only 25% of my budget on the mount. The biggest reason, besides price and features, is the fact that the iEXOS has a 19lbs weight capacity limit. As you'll see in a moment, I'm well under that, even when I load up the unit with some extra goodies. 

Now on to my choice for the OTA. I went with the Zenith Star 81 for two big reasons. The first is that it offered more features for a lower price than other 80 - 83mm OTAs. You can get the 81 APO for just $878, which means in close to the price of a Red Cat 51. If the price is of concern, then step down to the ZS 51 APO for under $600. In the long run, the price per feature ratio was simply too good to not go with the ZS. 

The second reason I went with the ZS model is that there was a sale going on. I actually got the OTA with a really nice reducer (.8 I believe) for a couple hundred more $$$. The OTA and all the extras come in a great little case, which is well padded. 

All total, with the new mount, OTA, top of the line CMOS camera for my main, a very decent CCD for my spotting scope, and all the accouterments that go along with it I still come in under 15 lbs. The beautiful thing is that when I'm using the system for EAA I don't need the guidescope/camera combination. That drops the weight to just over 12.5 lbs. The Orion G3 and guide scope bump it back up to the ideal weight limit of 15 lbs. And for straight observation, you can go up to 19 lbs.

Finally, since we often have desires bigger than our needs, there is the possibility that will want more load capacity options. In that case, I would recommend looking at the Explore Scientific Exos 2-G, with a retail price of $999 and load capacity of 28 lbs. 

I hope some of this has helped. Good luck with your plan.
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Robert Winslow avatar
IMHO Redcat 71 is your best bet.  There is much to learn about astrophotography.  For me, the amount of extra worries like Back Focus, Reducers/Flattners.  I simply wanted to leanr the rest of the equipment without the added issues.  The Redcat 71 ticked off all the boxes.  Works out of the box, no need for custom connects sdo you can get your back focus exactly 66MM (My ESpirt 100ED requires this).

Some setups are nice, like the ESpirt 100 ED, they give you the flattner, but it is up to you to get it 66 MM back focused. 

It is a fantastic scope and will serve you well.
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Lwizzit avatar
A less expensive, but functionally equivalent alternative to the Redcat 51 is the Askar FMA230.

I use one with a SkyGuider and it’s a perfect match. I do, however, second the WO latitude base which incidentally can be converted from high to low altitude easily. The best and easiest way to do this is through the base of the unit. I also bought their Dec and vixen bracket, making the whole thing very stable. Highly recommended.

Someone’s mentioned a Redcat 71. A great scope but possibly too heavy without a counterweight  bar extension and anextra counterweight.

As to the SkyHunter, iOptron seems to have dropped the ball on this and early adopters have been returning theirs. They’ve had trouble with tracking and guiding.

While iOptron has begun to address this issue by sending out new electronic boards for owners to install themselves, one has to worry about existing inventories. Also I’m not certain that this completely addresses the issues. There may be some mechanical problems as well. I’d wait for the V2 of these guys.
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kuechlew avatar
Not sure if this is still an active thread, almost 5 months after raising the question.

First of all there is now the nice equipment explorer which allows to check what others are using with it: Equipment explorer - AstroBin
IMHO you have to account for two factors: 
- What is the image scale the mount can handle.
- What is the maximum weight for the mount.

Based on my own experience I would not go much below 3 arcseconds per pixel. I achieve an RMS of around 2" when guiding the SkyGuider Pro which is good enough for 3 minute subs with my RedCat 51. 5 minute subs can be done if you're prepared to lose some of them. To me integration time is too precious to drop frames. Admittedly it happens on occasion under bad conditions with 3 minute frames too. The RedCat 51 is the most frequent scope used with it, according to the equipment explorer and I would not push for longer / heavier focal lengths.

As mentioned above, for a beginner going for a Petzval design has some virtues.

Clear skies
Wolfgang
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