Possible Kuiper belt object close enough for surface detail observations. - Forums

Topic starter

Dec 14, 2016

Merry Christmas!
I am a novice astrophotographer and just joined Astrobin. I have been tracing a possible Kuiper belt object since Nov. 20. I initially thought it was in the outer solar system, but angular diameter observations show it was
between Venus’ orbit and Mercury’s orbit for Thanksgiving. Current angular diameter is on par with a distant Mars. It is definitely not a comet as it sometimes produces a temporary coma. I had planned to map this object before my announcement, but the weather has
cancelled that plan. The bad weather did have one benefit. I learned enough of the MPC format to let you have your turn at it.
    KBO    2016 11 30.03333 18 42 45.20 -25 40 09.0                      XXX
    KBO     2016 12 01.01325 18 41 41.70 -25 4628.0                      XXX
    KBO     2016 12 02.03220 18 42 04.50 -26 1203.0                      XXX
    KBO     2016 12 12.14667 20 08 48.00 -27 1650.0                      XXX
    KBO     2016 12 14.04056 21 02 21.10 -26 0136.0                      XXX

I have given you my five latest observations. I don’t have a MPC code, so use the closest736. All observations and GPS are available upon request. Target is very dark so wait ten minutes after sundown before seeing it. It is red in my finderscope. It was too windy for barlows, but I made do with 299ms and 9.721 db gain. Do you have any advice for imaging Kuiper belt objects this close?
As a New Year’s gift I am throwing this possible Earth impacter in. Enjoy!
   2016 11 25.01747 18 25 58.50 -27 19 22.009.0 XXX
2016 11 22.03064 18 13 36.10 -24 23 15.00 9.0XXX
2016 11 24.04514 18 26 00.00 -24 03 10.00 9.0XXX

KuriousGeorge

Dec 15, 2016

Cloudy here but wish I could confirm your observations! Hopefully someone else can.

Well Written

Paddy Gilliland

Dec 15, 2016

Same here but sounds like an interesting hunt awaits.
Weather aside would have no idea how to find myself but hopefully some expertise is here that can help.

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 17, 2016 · Edited: Dec 19, 2016

I have uploaded two images of the object. Here is the latest coordinate.
KBO 2016 12 16.03737 08 22.80 -24 52 18.00

Chunyu

Dec 17, 2016

Very interesting! Can you explain the MPC format or provide a link? Thanks!

Well Written Respectful Engaging

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 17, 2016 · Edited: Dec 17, 2016

The MPC Format refers to the minor planet center’s format. You can use the information I have provided to calculate the orbit. My early attempts ended with failure, so I am waiting for more information before
I make another attempt. All I ask to go to the last set of coordinates I have provided and scroll down to the
horizon. See for yourself if I am lying.

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 18, 2016 · Edited: Dec 19, 2016

Here is the latest coordinate.
KBO 2016 12 18.01987 21 03 26.80 -24 08 49.00

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 19, 2016

Here is the latest coordinate.
KBO 2016 12 19.03531 21 02 43.20 -24 22 04.00

Odair Pimentel Martins

Dec 20, 2016

David, 20h 24m 33.8517s, -21° 49' 02.092" are coordinate of comet 45P/Honda-Mrkos-Pajdusakova with magnitude 8.71. This is the more closest detectably object today in region.

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 20, 2016

Here is the latest coordinate.
2016 12 20.04676 20 40 57.00 -23 29 36.00
I thank you for the comet 45P/Honda-Mrkos-Pajdusakovasuggestion. Comets don’t have moons, andthis one has several. That is how I knowit is not a comet. Would you like themoons’ coordinates so you could calculate their orbits?

Wanni

Dec 20, 2016

How about a new image?
If you can detect several moons, there should be a star background visible as well.
Not so much time left : according to your data, the object is coming back in RA.
Good luck !

Wanni

P.S. Constant bad weather at my place since weeks.
Otherwise I would try it myself, although I am highly sceptical about your find.
I wonder why nobody else could verfiy your observation, nothing heard from professional observatories yet.
Did you try to contact them?

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 20, 2016

After thinking about it, the target might be producing a coma. When it does it you see what looks like a line of comets in your telescope. Since the moons are somewhat spaced out now you would have to move it around. So if you are interested in seeing comets, try looking at this object tonight.

Wei-Hao Wang

Dec 20, 2016 · Edited: Dec 20, 2016

Wanni:
I wonder why nobody else could verfiy your observation, nothing heard from professional observatories yet.Did you try to contact them?

Kuiper belt objects with several moons and apparently as large as Mars..... Highly unlikely. Google or check wiki to see what the largest few Kuipter belt objects are like. Even Pluto does not come close to this description.

Odair Pimentel Martins

Dec 20, 2016

Odair Pimentel Martins:
David, 20h 24m 33.8517s, -21° 49' 02.092" are coordinate of comet 45P/Honda-Mrkos-Pajdusakova with magnitude 8.71. This is the more closest detectably object today in region.

Please, take a picture with background stars for astrograph solution. ;)
Odair

Wanni

Dec 20, 2016

Wei-Hao Wang:
Wanni:
I wonder why nobody else could verfiy your observation, nothing heard from professional observatories yet.Did you try to contact them?
Kuiper belt objects with several moons and apparently as large as Mars..... Highly unlikely. Google or check wiki to see what the largest few Kuipter belt objects are like. Even Pluto does not come close to this description.

I know, I imaged Pluto several times, which was quite a challenge.
Only by overlaying two images a day apart, I could verfiy Pluto by it's movement relativ to the background stars.
(see at my page)
But obviously David is tracking something. I took all his data and made a plot over RA/DE.
The path looks consistant, but what it is, we don't know.
So either he is seeing really something or it is a complete hoax.
8)
Wanni

Concise

Michael Poelzl

Dec 20, 2016 · Edited: Dec 20, 2016

Someone has come back from the grave: David Healy (what an amazing man!)

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 22, 2016

2016 12 21.04755 20 47 09.00 -25 25 33.00

Thanks Wanni. You don’t know what this means for me. I shot the target with my deep sky camera. There has been a reason I have not been honest with you about what I am seeing. I now submit evidence showing the target is more the size of Earth than Mars. To do this you need to download my image and blow it up to 400%. Clearly the tails are ionized or they would be pointing directly behind the sun. You will see a bow shock.

Wei-Hao Wang

Dec 23, 2016

sounds like a comet.

Nikita Misiura

Dec 23, 2016

I computed its trajectory and looks like it's headed straight towards Earth!

Wanni

Dec 23, 2016

Here a list of current observable comets :

http://www.aerith.net/comet/weekly/current.html

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 24, 2016

The weather hasn't been helpful with taking photos. I am likely out till the New Year. If you do seek this object out my only advice is expect the unexpected. It is quite a variable magnitude object. I have seen it as a comet like object so bright I thought it would be visible to the naked eye to so dim I was surprised it showed up in my finding scope. It will show up as a red object or as a bright comet like object your finder scope. If you do seek this object, please reply so I see if I lived up to your expectations.

Engaging

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 26, 2016

What a great Christmas gift. Too windy for pictures, but here is the latest coordinate. 2016 12 26.02257 20 15 39.90 -18 53 46.0

Michael Poelzl

Dec 26, 2016

Merry Christmas?!

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 28, 2016

Good news. My cloudy nights have been far from in vain. I was unable to use my location to calculate the orbit. I had to use Houston as the location. There are multiple orbits that fit my data soI won’t publish the details, with one exception. The target will be make its’ closest approach in May. I can’t see all the uncertainties putting the target out your finder scope’s range by then, so I will publish the
geocentric coordinates so you can see it. The target will be either a bright star or a more likely red object in your finderscope.
#Geocentric
Date (UTC)   RA              Dec         delta  r     elong
—- – – ————   ———— —— —— —–
2016 12 28 22 5731.662   -09 14 46.35 .92203 1.0340 65.6
2016 12 29 23 0037.793   -08 49 09.72 .92192 1.0319 65.5
2016 12 30 23 0344.091   -08 23 23.75 .92177 1.0297 65.3
2016 12 31 23 0650.570   -07 57 28.64 .92156 1.0276 65.2
2017 01 01 23 0957.245   -07 31 24.62 .92131 1.0255 65.1
2017 01 02 23 1304.130   -07 05 11.90 .92100 1.0234 64.9
2017 01 03 23 1611.237   -06 38 50.73 .92065 1.0213 64.8
2017 01 04 23 1918.581   -06 12 21.33 .92025 1.0192 64.6
2017 01 05 23 2226.175   -05 45 43.94 .91980 1.0172 64.5
2017 01 06 23 2534.032   -05 18 58.83 .91930 1.0151 64.4
2017 01 07 23 2842.168   -04 52 06.24 .91876 1.0131 64.3
2017 01 08 23 3150.595   -04 25 06.43 .91816 1.0111 64.1
2017 01 09 23 3459.330   -03 57 59.66 .91753 1.0091 64.0
2017 01 10 23 3808.390   -03 30 46.20 .91684 1.0071 63.9
2017 01 11 23 4117.794   -03 03 26.30 .91612 1.0052 63.8
2017 01 12 23 4427.562   -02 36 00.24 .91534 1.0033 63.7
2017 01 13 23 4737.717   -02 08 28.26 .91453 1.0013 63.6
2017 01 14 23 5048.284   -01 40 50.62 .91368 0.9995 63.5
2017 01 15 23 5359.287   -01 13 07.60 .91278 0.9976 63.3
2017 01 16 23 5710.753   -00 45 19.44 .91184 0.9957 63.2
2017 01 17 00 0022.710   -00 17 26.43 .91086 0.9939 63.1
2017 01 18 00 0335.184   +00 10 31.17 .90985 0.9921 63.0
2017 01 19 00 0648.202   +00 38 33.08 .90879 0.9904 63.0
2017 01 20 00 1001.793   +01 06 39.00 .90770 .98862 62.9
2017 01 21 00 1315.983   +01 34 48.65 .90657 .98691 62.8
2017 01 22 00 1630.800   +02 03 01.70 .90541 .98522 62.7
2017 01 23 00 1946.271   +02 31 17.86 .90420 .98355 62.6
2017 01 24 00 2302.423   +02 59 36.79 .90296 .98192 62.5
2017 01 25 00 2619.284   +03 27 58.17 .90169 .98032 62.4
2017 01 26 00 2936.880   +03 56 21.66 .90038 .97874 62.4
2017 01 27 00 3255.238   +04 24 46.91 .89904 .97720 62.3
2017 01 28 00 3614.385   +04 53 13.56 .89766 .97568 62.2
2017 01 29 00 3934.347   +05 21 41.24 .89625 .97420 62.2
2017 01 30 00 4255.148   +05 50 09.56 .89480 .97275 62.1
2017 01 31 00 4616.815   +06 18 38.13 .89332 .97133 62.0

Helpful

David Healy

Topic starter

Dec 28, 2016

2017 02 01 00 49 39.371   +06 47 06.54 .89182 .96995 62.0
2017 02 02 00 53 02.840   +07 15 34.36 .89028 .96860 61.9
2017 02 03 00 56 27.247   +07 44 01.17 .88871 .96728 61.9
2017 02 04 00 59 52.614   +08 12 26.51 .88711 .96600 61.8
2017 02 05 01 03 18.968   +08 40 49.94 .88548 .96476 61.8
2017 02 06 01 06 46.332   +09 09 10.99 .88382 .96355 61.7
2017 02 07 01 10 14.733   +09 37 29.17 .88214 .96238 61.7
2017 02 08 01 13 44.198   +10 05 44.03 .88043 .96125 61.7
2017 02 09 01 17 14.755   +10 33 55.07 .87870 .96015 61.6
2017 02 10 01 20 46.436   +11 02 01.79 .87695 .95909 61.6
2017 02 11 01 24 19.271   +11 30 03.72 .87518 .95807 61.6
2017 02 12 01 27 53.294   +11 58 00.34 .87338 .95709 61.6
2017 02 13 01 31 28.539   +12 25 51.16 .87157 .95615 61.5
2017 02 14 01 35 05.041   +12 53 35.67 .86974 .95525 61.5
2017 02 15 01 38 42.833   +13 21 13.34 .86790 .95440 61.5
2017 02 16 01 42 21.951   +13 48 43.65 .86604 .95358 61.5
2017 02 17 01 46 02.431   +14 16 06.05 .86416 .95280 61.5
2017 02 18 01 49 44.305   +14 43 20.00 .86227 .95207 61.5
2017 02 19 01 53 27.609   +15 10 24.93 .86037 .95137 61.5
2017 02 20 01 57 12.376   +15 37 20.27 .85846 .95072 61.5
2017 02 21 02 00 58.639   +16 04 05.43 .85654 .95011 61.5
2017 02 22 02 04 46.430   +16 30 39.81 .85461 .94955 61.5
2017 02 23 02 08 35.782   +16 57 02.81 .85268 .94903 61.5
2017 02 24 02 12 26.725   +17 23 13.79 .85073 .94855 61.5
2017 02 25 02 16 19.288   +17 49 12.13 .84878 .94811 61.5
2017 02 26 02 20 13.500   +18 14 57.17 .84682 .94772 61.5
2017 02 27 02 24 09.387   +18 40 28.25 .84486 .94738 61.6
2017 02 28 02 28 06.973   +19 05 44.69 .84290 .94708 61.6
2017 03 01 02 32 06.281   +19 30 45.79 .84093 .94682 61.6
2017 03 02 02 36 07.330   +19 55 30.84 .83896 .94661 61.6
2017 03 03 02 40 10.139   +20 19 59.10 .83699 .94644 61.7
2017 03 04 02 44 14.724   +20 44 09.84 .83502 .94631 61.7
2017 03 05 02 48 21.100   +21 08 02.29 .83305 .94624 61.7
2017 03 06 02 52 29.281   +21 31 35.68 .83109 .94620 61.8
2017 03 07 02 56 39.279   +21 54 49.25 .82913 .94621 61.8
2017 03 08 03 00 51.106   +22 17 42.19 .82717 .94627 61.9
2017 03 09 03 05 04.775   +22 40 13.73 .82522 .94637 61.9
2017 03 10 03 09 20.295   +23 02 23.05 .82329 .94652 62.0
2017 03 11 03 13 37.676   +23 24 09.37 .82136 .94671 62.0
2017 03 12 03 17 56.929   +23 45 31.89 .81944 .94694 62.1
2017 03 13 03 22 18.060   +24 06 29.80 .81754 .94722 62.2
2017 03 14 03 26 41.077   +24 27 02.29 .81565 .94755 62.2
2017 03 15 03 31 05.984   +24 47 08.58 .81378 .94792 62.3
2017 03 16 03 35 32.783   +25 06 47.84 .81193 .94833 62.4
2017 03 17 03 40 01.475   +25 25 59.29 .81010 .94879 62.4
2017 03 18 03 44 32.057   +25 44 42.11 .80829 .94929 62.5
2017 03 19 03 49 04.524   +26 02 55.51 .80649 .94983 62.6
2017 03 20 03 53 38.865   +26 20 38.70 .80473 .95042 62.7
2017 03 21 03 58 15.070   +26 37 50.87 .80298 .95105 62.7
2017 03 22 04 02 53.124   +26 54 31.23 .80127 .95172 62.8
2017 03 23 04 07 33.006   +27 10 39.02 .79958 .95243 62.9
2017 03 24 04 12 14.694   +27 26 13.45 .79791 .95319 63.0
2017 03 25 04 16 58.162   +27 41 13.75 .79628 .95399 63.1
2017 03 26 04 21 43.378   +27 55 39.19 .79467 .95483 63.2
2017 03 27 04 26 30.308   +28 09 29.01 .79310 .95571 63.3
2017 03 28 04 31 18.909   +28 22 42.49 .79156 .95663 63.4
2017 03 29 04 36 09.135   +28 35 18.92 .79004 .95759 63.5
2017 03 30 04 41 00.935   +28 47 17.60 .78857 .95859 63.6
2017 03 31 04 45 54.252   +28 58 37.84 .78712 .95963 63.7
2017 04 01 04 50 49.022   +29 09 18.99 .78572 .96071 63.8
2017 04 02 04 55 45.179   +29 19 20.38 .78434 .96182 63.9
2017 04 03 05 00 42.653   +29 28 41.41 .78301 .96297 64.0
2017 04 04 05 05 41.368   +29 37 21.48 .78171 .96416 64.2
2017 04 05 05 10 41.250   +29 45 20.01 .78046 .96539 64.3
2017 04 06 05 15 42.218   +29 52 36.47 .77924 .96665 64.4
2017 04 07 05 20 44.192   +29 59 10.37 .77807 .96795 64.5
2017 04 08 05 25 47.090   +30 05 01.24 .77694 .96928 64.6
2017 04 09 05 30 50.826   +30 10 08.65 .77586 .97065 64.8
2017 04 10 05 35 55.315   +30 14 32.22 .77482 .97205 64.9
2017 04 11 05 41 00.470   +30 18 11.61 .77383 .97349 65.0
2017 04 12 05 46 06.203   +30 21 06.52 .77289 .97495 65.1
2017 04 13 05 51 12.423   +30 23 16.70 .77200 .97645 65.3
2017 04 14 05 56 19.041   +30 24 41.93 .77116 .97798 65.4
2017 04 15 06 01 25.964   +30 25 22.04 .77038 .97954 65.5
2017 04 16 06 06 33.100   +30 25 16.93 .76965 .98113 65.7
2017 04 17 06 11 40.357   +30 24 26.52 .76897 .98275 65.8
2017 04 18 06 16 47.641   +30 22 50.78 .76834 .98440 65.9
2017 04 19 06 21 54.859   +30 20 29.73 .76778 .98608 66.1
2017 04 20 06 27 01.919   +30 17 23.46 .76727 .98778 66.2
2017 04 21 06 32 08.727   +30 13 32.06 .76681 .98951 66.3
2017 04 22 06 37 15.193   +30 08 55.72 .76642 0.9913 66.5
2017 04 23 06 42 21.224   +30 03 34.64 .76609 0.9930 66.6
2017 04 24 06 47 26.732   +29 57 29.09 .76581 0.9949 66.7
2017 04 25 06 52 31.625   +29 50 39.37 .76560 0.9967 66.9
2017 04 26 06 57 35.815   +29 43 05.83 .76544 0.9985 67.0
2017 04 27 07 02 39.213   +29 34 48.89 .76535 1.0004 67.2
2017 04 28 07 07 41.728   +29 25 48.97 .76531 1.0023 67.3
2017 04 29 07 12 43.273   +29 16 06.58 .76534 1.0042 67.4
2017 04 30 07 17 43.760   +29 05 42.22 .76543 1.0062 67.6
2017 05 01 07 22 43.103   +28 54 36.47 .76558 1.0081 67.7
2017 05 02 07 27 41.222   +28 42 49.92 .76579 1.0101 67.9
2017 05 03 07 32 38.036   +28 30 23.19 .76607 1.0121 68.0
2017 05 04 07 37 33.472   +28 17 16.96 .76641 1.0141 68.1
2017 05 05 07 42 27.460   +28 03 31.90 .76681 1.0162 68.3
2017 05 06 07 47 19.936   +27 49 08.74 .76728 1.0182 68.4
2017 05 07 07 52 10.839   +27 34 08.24 .76781 1.0203 68.5
2017 05 08 07 57 00.115   +27 18 31.15 .76841 1.0224 68.7
2017 05 09 08 01 47.712   +27 02 18.28 .76907 1.0245 68.8
2017 05 10 08 06 33.585   +26 45 30.45 .76981 1.0266 69.0
2017 05 11 08 11 17.694   +26 28 08.48 .77061 1.0287 69.1