Culling choices

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Tony Gondola avatar

This is something that I’ve been observing for awhile now and wanted to share. My usual culling routine would be to reject images with both high eccentricity and high FWHM. But when taking a closer look it seems that a lot of my subs with high eccentricity still retained good detail in the non-stellar parts of the image. I think I understand the reason for this. let’s say you’re taking 60 sec. subs and you get a little wind gust or an RA guiding bump that lasts a few seconds. Because stars are so bright, this slight bump is enough to bring the stars out of round and produce a frame that would score low on eccentricity but, because the signal is building up so slowly in the fainter areas, they are relatively unaffected. Here’s a side by side comparison that shows the effect. These are 60 sec. subs of M-51 with a uniform histogram stretch and slight noise reduction to make the detail easier to see:

📷 result.pngresult.png📷 result-2.pngresult-2.pngYou’ll note that in the core, the high eccentricity frame actually has better detail then the best eccentricity frame and is close to the best FWHM frame. I’ve done this side by side test many times and always get a similar result. Of course you still want to discard frames that have extreme elongation or multiple star images but that’s about it in terms of eccentricity. You do want to cull deeply using FWHM as that really seems the best indicator of sub quality. I’ve also found the number of stars detected in the frame often correlates well with best FWHM frames so it can also be a powerful indicator of sub quality.

Just to give some numbers here, in the FWHM subs the best has an average of 3.12”, the worst comes in at 3.75” The worst eccentricity sub. has an average of 3.17”

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SonnyE avatar

I tend to only remove the very obviously bad images, when I catch them. Some examples would be an Airplane, or dawn frames. Not much as culling goes, really.

I more depend on my ASI Studio and its rejection settings (Is that AI stuff?) which is usually very mild at the stock settings. Sometimes nothing is rejected after my lightly culling the obvious. I might take 200 to 300 images at a certain exposure length, but throw away the last 40 to 60ish due to “dawn burn”, or maybe neighboring trees interfering. (I don’t cull the overhead wires generally, as another example.)

I like to often just run the bulk of my images after my casual culling and save as a jpg for the web. I usually start at a minimum of 30° and run to destruction at astronomical dawn.

My delete key forgives all sins. No picture = didn’t happen. 😄 My SSD I save my images on was getting critically full, so I deleted 2025’s image files to make more room for this years. The old stuff is just old stuff. Onward through the fog! 😜

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John Hayes avatar

Tony,

I agree with your conclusions. I used to cull everything until I did a comparison of my culled results with simply using PSF Signal weighting and dumping it all into the stack. In terms of FWHM, culling is better; however, that’s at the sacrifice of SNR and the difference in FWHM compared to using it all is very small. When the seeing conditions are really variable, I still cull but only to remove the very worst stuff. You can see my results in my Galaxy Studio presentation on TIAC and judge for yourself.

John

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Tony Gondola avatar

I think the effectiveness of useful little refinements like this depend a lot on the system in question and conditions. A small refractor that’s under-sampling probably won’t benefit much. With my 150mm aperture, I’m usually sampling at 0.66” or 0.38” per pixel with a tiny 585 sensor. It takes a lot to make things look good with a sensor that small, it pushes me to the wall every time. I’ve found little improvements like this have a large impact. Bottom line is everyone really should just do the testing and see what works best for them.

One last point and this is something I’m still refining. Combining the low frequency data from the full stack and the high frequency information from the deeply culled stack can (I think) give you the best of both worlds. I’m not sure this would be effective with all classes of objects but what’s nice about it is that no data is wasted…work in progress.

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Jeremy Phillips FRAS avatar

The new Subframe Selecter incorporated into WPP can be pretty instructive with regards to the effects of dumping poor frames using various parameters. It enables you to be bespoke for your own equipment and sky conditions. We’re diving into a lot of graphs and statistics here, but I found it slightly addictive after being introduced to the feature in this Adam Block tutorial… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0EXGbwo_I

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Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar

I think people reject way more data than they should. You can take a set of data and test this yourself. Throw it all into the blender using PSF Signal weight, and then do the same thing with incrementally more culled sets. You will likely find that WBPP does a great job weighting even your bad subs low enough that you can still keep a lot of the signal you would have tossed out otherwise, and not really harm the end image.

The things I think people should care more about are leftover motes from bad calibration, legitimate clouds, streaks from objects that are too bright to keep, then maybe a little bit of really bad tracking error and egregious seeing.

This is coming from someone that has to process a ton of data from a ton of telescopes, and do it all in a manner that delivers quality, but also doesn’t make me want to rip the remaining hair I have out of my head. :)

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Scott Badger avatar

I’m also in the equal opportunity camp, but I’m interested in Tony’s original question…..can object ‘eccentricity’ be less than star eccentricity in a single sub? Sometimes it seems that way though I’ve never looked more closely like Tony has.

Cheers,

Scott

SonnyE avatar

I chopped out an airplane last night. I happened to be watching when Frame 47 came in and wouldn’t you know it… an airplane flew directly through the center of the image. A real Bullseye.

I managed to delete it right away. Probably should have saved it for show-and-tell.

Our Airplanes will get removed in stacking, and I don’t inspect all my frames. But since I caught it ….

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Rick Krejci avatar

SonnyE · Mar 3, 2026, 07:50 PM

I chopped out an airplane last night. I happened to be watching when Frame 47 came in and wouldn’t you know it… an airplane flew directly through the center of the image. A real Bullseye.

I managed to delete it right away. Probably should have saved it for show-and-tell.

Our Airplanes will get removed in stacking, and I don’t inspect all my frames. But since I caught it ….

I get an airplane (at 990mm fl on Full Frame) about once a night. I usually remove them since they are so bright and sometimes leave a trace depending on my number of subs.

Jason dain avatar

My culling only involves obviously clouded over images or very bad trails due to wind. I don’t cull images with satellites or planes which are numerous around here on the east coast of Canada. Otherwise, I depend on the PSF SNR weighting in Pixinsight WBPP and BlurXterminator.

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