Mysterious star trailing solved: a cautionary tale of fan vibration with a fan cooled (especially ZWO) camera.

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Rick Veregin avatar

Suddenly after no problems with star shapes, the next night out they were just terrible!

Below I show a gif comparing two 2 hr stacks, one with the good stars, and the next with elongated stars. In this example the distortion was vertical. But later in the night, the elongation direction changed. The difference was huge, my bad stack averaged a FWHM of 7.4 pixels, 3.7 arc-sec, compared to what I got before with round stars of 5.2 pixels, or 2.6 arc-sec. I was gutted by this sudden and mysterious issue.

I have a C925 with a Starizona f6.3 reducer, a CEM70ec mount which has encoders, so I was not guiding for my 2 minute exposures. My camera is a ZWO ASI 2600MC Pro, so has fan cooling, which I had turned on. I monitor the drift from frame to frame, but that was less than 0.5 px on average, or 0.25 arc-sec, clearly not the issue.

📷 bad-vs-good-comparison.gifbad-vs-good-comparison.gif

At first, I thought it was the wind. But as the wind died down that night the elongation was if anything getting worse.

I went to a bright star to look at my optics, I noticed for in live view that with 2 ms frames the star was doubled!! What could cause it to double??? Then at 20 ms exposure the star was elongated, but no longer doubled.

I realized then I had a sinusoidal vibration, likely from the fan!

Sinusoidal vibrations are interesting. As shown in the figure below, the amplitude increases rapidly and almost linearly, then around the peak hardly changes at all in amplitude, before plunging down—again almost linearly, then again nearly stopping any change in amplitude near the minimium.

📷 image.pngimage.png

Thus, if we are observing a sinusoidal vibration at a slower frequency than the vibration (a longer exposure), we just see a blurred average of the position change. But if we sample faster than the vibration frequency, then when the cycle is on a rise or a fall, the star will be in a different place in each of those sequential frames in live view mode, so to the eye, they blur into invisibility except. But on the flat part of the cycle, near the peak maximum or minimum, the position of the star is hardly changing, so we see the minimum and the maximum as a star—thus a doubled star separated by the amplitude distance. Thus, sampling abit faster than the vibration frequency, we will see the star at top of the peak and the bottom of the peak, and on average we don’t see much of the rise and fall. If you use extremely short exposures, very high frequency, in live view the star seems to jump around a lot.

In this case at 2 ms, or 1/500 of a second, I basically only saw the maximum and the minimum preferentially, a doublet! At 20 ms, or 1/50 s, everything was averaged out, so I just saw a broadened smear. The fundamental fan frequency for ZWO is apparently something like 100 Hz, a period of 1/100 s, so it all suddenly made sense.

I have a ZWO 2600MC for years now, never a problem, but now it appears the fan vibration is suddenly a problem. Turning the cooling off and on (there is no control over the fan itself), showed me going from 4 or 5 pixel stars with cooling off in my 2 minute exposures, to 7 or even 9 pixel stars with the fan on, so the fan was clearly the issue.

I cleaned the fan, which was after years was incredibly dirty, but to no effect, vibration was still there.

I bought a new ZWO replacement fan, which did not do the trick at all, no improvement.

I removed the screws holding the fan to the back, and isolated the fan from the camera with silicone rubber posts, with no improvement. I have no idea suddenly why I’m sensitive to this fan vibration, even with a new ZWO fan.

Fortunately, there are people who have posted on-line a solution: there are two fans that are recommended for low noise and thus low vibration: Noctua (for 40mm ZWO fans) or Fractal Design (for 50mm ZWO fans). For the 2600 I needed the 50 nm fan, the Fractal Design. The only issue is these fans are that they have a three-prong connector, with a speed control wire, while, ZWO has only the positive and ground wire in a two-prong connector, as ZWO, in this camera at least, doesn’t use a speed control wire.

Anyway, easy enough to splice the ZWO connector onto the Fractal Design wires, as well shortening the long wires that came with the new fan. Here is a picture of the pins, make sure you connect them correctly if you need to do this. The top is a schematic and the bottom a photo of the connector from my new Fractal Design. The label 1 is the ground, the middle is red, 12V, and the bottom (2510) is the control, which we don’t use in my camera, so it is just closed off, unused.

📷 image.pngimage.png📷 image.pngimage.png📷 image.pngimage.png

For the Noctua fan, it has an adapter, so you can use that adapter to do the two-pin connection for cameras that fit this fan.

Also make sure you replace the fan with the correct airflow, which is inward.

Finally, to be sure I did everything I could, I added the silicon rubber posts, and bought more of the rubber o-ring spacers, all available from Amazon.

📷 image.pngimage.png📷 image.pngimage.pngBelow is an example (note I forgot to get an image before reassembling, so the camera backplate is missing in my photo, but I had an extra back screen, so imagine the back plate is there to the left of the screen, then I put two of the rubber O-rings to isolate the fan from the back plate and screen. All four rubber posts were done the same way. On the inside (and outside), cut off what rubber post you don’t need. The fan seems very secure, but one can add a couple of O-rings on the post on the left (inside) of the fan, for a more positive hold on the fan

image.png

It works like a charm, no vibration, images are the same with and without cooling on! It has been working flawlessly to date, about a month now no issues.

This seems to be a particular issue with the ZWO fan, but if your fan gets very dirty or damaged, any fan could start to vibrate.

I do advise everyone to check the effect of the fan often, I worry now—and there is nothing I can do about this—that the fan may have been broadening my images for a while, just too subtle to tell compared to the effects of seeing, wind and polar alignment. I’m suspicious because it seems my “seeing” is suddenly better most nights than I had been generally in the past. Water under the bridge now, but I won’t be caught again.

Speaking of water, QHY does have a liquid cooling system to avoid vibrations, but not one has to contact them for a price, which usually means it is very pricey indeed…

From the internet ZWO seems to be most problematic for their fan choice, though QHY says all fans cause some problems, but then they might just be trying to sell some liquid cooled systems?

If you have a ZWO camera (and maybe any fan cooled camera) I suggest you check at least your FWHM with and without the cooling, make sure there is no effect during your subexposure.

What I do now every night in Live view mode is to turn cooling on and off and look at my star shape and size and movement when I am doing my sky alignment on a bright star. It only takes a few seconds to make sure all is well. With short exposures and a big zoom one can see the star wiggling around a lot more when there is vibration with cooling on, compared to no vibration with it off.

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SonnyE avatar

Hi Rick,

Thanks for your write up.

I’ve always felt cooling fans could be problematic. Anything moving can induce unwanted vibrations.

I occasionally blow off my ASI2600MC Pro with compressed air, to clean dust accumulation from the fan.

Glad you found a workable combination.

Rick Veregin avatar

I still can’t figure out what went wrong with the fan I had, it had been working decently, and it did not help to clean it. No obvious dings either. And a second fan from ZWO brand new was bad too.

But definitely a good idea to clean the fan with air, to keep the blades clean and balanced, and could help keep dust out of bearings too, which could introduce vibrations.

I still recommend checking for vibration regularly, mine just failed for no reason out of the blue.

Thank you!

CS

Rick

SonnyE avatar

Finally, a clear night here.

I removed my ASI2600MC Pro this afternoon and blew off the fan and case.

And installed my newest filter for a test tonight.

Teeny, tiny stars in the California Nebula so far. So I think the dusting off probably helped a lot.

I’ll know better tomorrow after stacking. But so far, really happy.

I think the dust was causing vibration in my camera.

Edit in: Yes, much finer and better defined stars now.

AstroÅmazer avatar

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have read about other cases where vibration causes performance issues. An example of a hilarious case was Brendan Gregg screaming at a HDD in a data center causing response time spikes due to vibration sensitivity (thankfully SSD are not sensitive to screaming).

Another make of low vibration fan I have used in non Astro projects is the beQuiet ones. Noctua are probably the best. This is why I hesitate to buy used electronics. Wear and tear is difficult to predict and fan vibration or stepper motor winding degradation is not generally a slow creep. In your case, I highly doubt your FWHM has been linearly increasing as the fan was dying. It is more likely the fan vibration reached a resonant frequency of your rig and you saw noticable effects. More often than not, the bearings inside the fan are the culprit.

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John Hayes avatar

Rick,

Well done!! This is a great example of the kind of analysis that can uncover subtle problems. I’ve had a gnawing concern that the ultimate image sharpness of my ASA600 scope in Chile is slowly deteriorating and fan noise is certainly something that I want to check the next time I go down there. It’s good to remember that when we are talking about 1”, everything is made of rubber so it doesn’t take much to cause a small measurable difference.

John

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Rick Veregin avatar

John Hayes · Nov 19, 2025, 04:33 PM

Rick,

Well done!! This is a great example of the kind of analysis that can uncover subtle problems. I’ve had a gnawing concern that the ultimate image sharpness of my ASA600 scope in Chile is slowly deteriorating and fan noise is certainly something that I want to check the next time I go down there. It’s good to remember that when we are talking about 1”, everything is made of rubber so it doesn’t take much to cause a small measurable difference.

John

Yes, indeed, John, I had heard you talk about rubber before and can attest to it. I also like to think about it that my camera pixels are less than 4 micron, so any movement over 4 microns is potentially visible, no matter what the FL or F-Ratio is. And here it was not that my camera was vibrating like crazy, I could not feel anything by putting a hand on the camera. The only thing noticeable is how much quieter the new fan is, quiet is good because noise means something is vibrating.

I do wish I had checked this earlier, as I said I may have suffered in ignorance with enough vibration to affect my images, but not enough for me to know I had a problem.

Thanks so much for your comments! And good luck with your fan!

CS

Rick

Rick Veregin avatar

AstroÅmazer · Nov 19, 2025, 04:41 AM

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I have read about other cases where vibration causes performance issues. An example of a hilarious case was Brendan Gregg screaming at a HDD in a data center causing response time spikes due to vibration sensitivity (thankfully SSD are not sensitive to screaming).

Another make of low vibration fan I have used in non Astro projects is the beQuiet ones. Noctua are probably the best. This is why I hesitate to buy used electronics. Wear and tear is difficult to predict and fan vibration or stepper motor winding degradation is not generally a slow creep. In your case, I highly doubt your FWHM has been linearly increasing as the fan was dying. It is more likely the fan vibration reached a resonant frequency of your rig and you saw noticable effects. More often than not, the bearings inside the fan are the culprit.

Indeed, SSD have a lot of benefits. Thanks so much, that makes me feel better if it was sudden. A good point about the resonance frequency. One thing I had tried was to increase my east/camera heavy setting a bit, in case I was just too balanced—but that didn’t help, and one has to be careful not to make it too unbalanced…

CS

Rick

Rick Veregin avatar

SonnyE · Nov 19, 2025, 04:17 AM

Finally, a clear night here.

I removed my ASI2600MC Pro this afternoon and blew off the fan and case.

And installed my newest filter for a test tonight.

Teeny, tiny stars in the California Nebula so far. So I think the dusting off probably helped a lot.

I’ll know better tomorrow after stacking. But so far, really happy.

I think the dust was causing vibration in my camera.

Edit in: Yes, much finer and better defined stars now.

That’s interesting, certainly a regular cleaning is now on my check list!

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Richard Carande avatar

Ah yes — the vibration issue. Yes I had it on my long focal length Edge-11 ( reduced to 1960mm) with my ZWO 2400 camera. Same camera was fine on my 115mm APO (at 650mm focal length) — something I never quite understood since a pixel is a pixel regardless. I chalked that up to some mechanical characteristic of the Edge that enhanced the vibration. I also bought the rubber isolaters and a low-noise (and slower) fan which solved the issue.

For me the killer-evidence was in satellite trails. Of course they should be straight lines through the image. But I was seeing squiggles when the fan was on. That’s an easy way to see the problem.

Another thing, I’m not sure this is a purely ZWO issue. I think ZWO has by far the largest number of astrocameras out there, so its natural they would be the ones we hear about. I remember seeing some forum discussion years ago when i was having the issue, about other cameras also having vibration problems.

Glad you fixed your issue, and the post should be helpful to others.

And look for squiggles!

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Rick Veregin avatar

Richard Carande · Nov 19, 2025, 10:24 PM

Ah yes — the vibration issue. Yes I had it on my long focal length Edge-11 ( reduced to 1960mm) with my ZWO 2400 camera. Same camera was fine on my 115mm APO (at 650mm focal length) — something I never quite understood since a pixel is a pixel regardless. I chalked that up to some mechanical characteristic of the Edge that enhanced the vibration. I also bought the rubber isolaters and a low-noise (and slower) fan which solved the issue.

For me the killer-evidence was in satellite trails. Of course they should be straight lines through the image. But I was seeing squiggles when the fan was on. That’s an easy way to see the problem.

Another thing, I’m not sure this is a purely ZWO issue. I think ZWO has by far the largest number of astrocameras out there, so its natural they would be the ones we hear about. I remember seeing some forum discussion years ago when i was having the issue, about other cameras also having vibration problems.

Glad you fixed your issue, and the post should be helpful to others.

And look for squiggles!

Great comments Richard, I’m glad you found a similar solution!

AstroAmazer made a good point, that you are in trouble if the fan vibration hits the resonance frequency of your setup, a longer and heavier Edge would resonant much differently than the shorter and lighter APO. That may explain your experience?

Your suggestion is a good check, a wiggle in satellite trails.

Agreed, ZWO probably does have the most cameras out there.

However, the lack of a fan speed control to me is an issue, many other cameras can adjust the fan speed. To me the fan at full crank on my ZWO has an incredible airflow, most of the time this is overkill—the cameras and dark noise are so low that we really don’t need to go below 0C, even 10C or more is okay. The key is to control the temperature to a reasonable value, we don’t need to be sub zero. But if resonance is the key, changing the fan speed would be a great knob to control the resonance, just set a value for your setup that doesn’t cause resonance.

I’m unclear why ZWO dropped the speed control, I saw something about it was not fully implemented, so was dropped. It would add to the cost having a speed control circuit, not sure if it is more than that?

Thanks for your comments, Richard, I’ve learned a lot from all the wonderful comments that are coming in!

CS

Rick

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Tom Marsala avatar

Richard Carande · Nov 19, 2025, 10:24 PM

Ah yes — the vibration issue. Yes I had it on my long focal length Edge-11 ( reduced to 1960mm) with my ZWO 2400 camera. Same camera was fine on my 115mm APO (at 650mm focal length) — something I never quite understood since a pixel is a pixel regardless. I chalked that up to some mechanical characteristic of the Edge that enhanced the vibration. I also bought the rubber isolaters and a low-noise (and slower) fan which solved the issue.

For me the killer-evidence was in satellite trails. Of course they should be straight lines through the image. But I was seeing squiggles when the fan was on. That’s an easy way to see the problem.

Another thing, I’m not sure this is a purely ZWO issue. I think ZWO has by far the largest number of astrocameras out there, so its natural they would be the ones we hear about. I remember seeing some forum discussion years ago when i was having the issue, about other cameras also having vibration problems.

Glad you fixed your issue, and the post should be helpful to others.

And look for squiggles!

Tom Marsala avatar

Richard,

Can you post a link or state which fan you put in your 2400 as a lower noise replacement?

Thank you!

Tom Marsala

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Mark Fox avatar

Yes, when using my C9.25 (with or without reducer) with 2400MC, I have also seen:

1) Higher FWHM in warmer weather (versus essentially no cooling required in winter)

2) Jagged satellite tracks in subs.

I have reduced the resonance wobble (but not eliminated it) by wrapping a couple of fat rubber bands around the camera housing (straddling the ventilation fan). Although not quantified, it seemed to reduce the effect.

I have not had any fan resonance issues with my 408mm FL SQA85, as the wobble (being sub-arcsecond) is a non-issue at shorter FL.

Having tapered off my AP spending in the last few months, I guess I’ll be looking at a couple of replacement fans for my ZWOs.

CS,
Mark

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Rick Veregin avatar

Mark Fox · Nov 20, 2025, 07:18 PM

Yes, when using my C9.25 (with or without reducer) with 2400MC, I have also seen:

1) Higher FWHM in warmer weather (versus essentially no cooling required in winter)

2) Jagged satellite tracks in subs.

I have reduced the resonance wobble (but not eliminated it) by wrapping a couple of fat rubber bands around the camera housing (straddling the ventilation fan). Although not quantified, it seemed to reduce the effect.

I have not had any fan resonance issues with my 408mm FL SQA85, as the wobble (being sub-arcsecond) is a non-issue at shorter FL.

Having tapered off my AP spending in the last few months, I guess I’ll be looking at a couple of replacement fans for my ZWOs.

CS,
Mark

I like to image at 0C and also use the window heater to prevent dew, so I always cool, even in winter. It is too bad one can’t turn the fan down though while keeping cooling on, as it doesn’t need much cooling in winter. For me, nothing helped at all with the ZWO fans—I’m now convinced it is a resonance effect with the setup. And my wiggle was not sub-arc sec, it was probably 4 pixels or 2 arc-sec, a big effect.

Fortunately the fans are not expensive—good luck with your replacement, Mark!

CS

Rick

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Richard Carande avatar

Tom Marsala · Nov 20, 2025, 06:13 PM

Richard,

Can you post a link or state which fan you put in your 2400 as a lower noise replacement?

Thank you!

Tom Marsala

Hi Tom,

This topic I think gets revisited every year — here is the discussion i was participating in over on the CloudyNights Forum from a couple of years ago: https://www.cloudynights.com/forums/topic/837559-fan-vibration-asi2600mc-fixed/

I’ll include my final comment (March 2024) from that thread here, which has all the details you’re asking about:

“I can summarize my experience (saga) with the 2400, which has the same fan as the 2600.

First I replaced the mounts with the silicone studs as several have suggested here. This may have made things a little better, but did not fix the problem. Then I bought a replacement fan from ZWO, identical model, (hoping mine was a bad sample) but that also did not make any difference from what I could tell. Finally I ordered the Fractal fan and that seems to have fixed the problem.

The Fractal fan (https://www.fractal-design.com/products/fans/silent/silent-series-r3-50mm/black/) runs a little slower (in RPMs) than the original fan, so in theory it might not be able to get as cold, but the fan is super quiet. After installing at first I didn't think it was even running because I was so used to the "ZWO hum" with the fan. But it was, and cools down to -20 when I've tried; I'm guessing the warmest I've used it was around 20 C below ambient (I live in Colorado, and it's winter).

As far as the 2pin/3pin connector goes, I bought this adapter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005FYIBJ8 The only downs side is it's way longer than you need so you have to figure out what to do with the extra cable. I wound mine tightly around the fan housing and applied a drop of superglue (carefully!) to keep it in place.

Hope this helps.”

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Tom Marsala avatar

Richard, thank you.

Tom

Tom Marsala avatar

Although it appears those fans are no longer available. Bummer! But so far, my 2400 seems to be doing well at 1500mm FL so I'll take it.

Tom

Rick Veregin avatar

Tom Marsala · Nov 21, 2025, 01:03 AM

Although it appears those fans are no longer available. Bummer! But so far, my 2400 seems to be doing well at 1500mm FL so I'll take it.

Tom

Hi Tom

The Fractal Design R3 50 mm, which is what you need, same one I got, is still available, at least on Amazon.ca. Order it from Canada, if you can’t find it elsewhere.

Rick

Kay Ogetay avatar

This is a very good analysis Rick! Thanks for sharing such proof.

Rick Veregin avatar

Kay Ogetay · Nov 21, 2025, 03:31 PM

This is a very good analysis Rick! Thanks for sharing such proof.

Thanks a lot Kay!

CS

Rick

Mark Fox avatar

Rick Veregin · Nov 20, 2025, 09:13 PM

Mark Fox · Nov 20, 2025, 07:18 PM

Yes, when using my C9.25 (with or without reducer) with 2400MC, I have also seen:

1) Higher FWHM in warmer weather (versus essentially no cooling required in winter)

2) Jagged satellite tracks in subs.

I have reduced the resonance wobble (but not eliminated it) by wrapping a couple of fat rubber bands around the camera housing (straddling the ventilation fan). Although not quantified, it seemed to reduce the effect.

I have not had any fan resonance issues with my 408mm FL SQA85, as the wobble (being sub-arcsecond) is a non-issue at shorter FL.

Having tapered off my AP spending in the last few months, I guess I’ll be looking at a couple of replacement fans for my ZWOs.

CS,
Mark

I like to image at 0C and also use the window heater to prevent dew, so I always cool, even in winter. It is too bad one can’t turn the fan down though while keeping cooling on, as it doesn’t need much cooling in winter. For me, nothing helped at all with the ZWO fans—I’m now convinced it is a resonance effect with the setup. And my wiggle was not sub-arc sec, it was probably 4 pixels or 2 arc-sec, a big effect.

Fortunately the fans are not expensive—good luck with your replacement, Mark!

CS

Rick

OOPS! Rick, you found my error. On the short FL, the wobble would probably be close to “sub-pixel”, not sub-arcsec. With my 2400/SQA85, I get 3.00”/pix and any wobble would not have been noticeable - at most, very hard to detect. But I haven’t really analyzed my new 2600 yet - if combined with my C9.25, I am certain that wobble will will be on the order of several pixels.

Thank you everyone for reminding me of this issue.

CS,

Mark

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Pete Bouras avatar

Very nice analysis Rick!

I had a ASI2600MM, didn’t have a vibration issue on the TMB130 rig with it (at least didn’t detect one), but I disliked the fan noise, and when I read about quiet low vibration fans available to retrofit the camera fan, I did the mod, and never looked back. Glad it solved your problem.

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Rick Veregin avatar

Pete Bouras · Nov 22, 2025, 02:17 PM

Very nice analysis Rick!

I had a ASI2600MM, didn’t have a vibration issue on the TMB130 rig with it (at least didn’t detect one), but I disliked the fan noise, and when I read about quiet low vibration fans available to retrofit the camera fan, I did the mod, and never looked back. Glad it solved your problem.

Thanks a lot, Pete! Yes the ZWO fans are noisy, I can’t even hear my Fractal Design fan. It was interesting my wife just got a new laptop and one can’t tell it is on, the fan is so quiet, not like my 2 year old model—so Dell has gone to quiet fans too.

CS

Rick