Michael Urvina avatar

Hello,

I have searched many sites looking for similarities regarding a worsening issue I have been fighting for some time. I hope that posting here and attaching some photos will help with the diagnosis. Essentially, my stacked light frames using the Antlia ALP-T filter contains an odd ring. I use 2 other filters (Optolong), both of which do not appear to be affected. While I now use a ZWO 5 position filter wheel for 2’’ filters, the rings are also present, although to a lesser extent, on images using a filter drawer.

When I recently removed the cover of the wheel, the filter did not seem properly aligned with the opening. I thought , “ that must be the issue.” So that night, I ran the calibration for the filter wheel and the issue was still present in the stacked lights the following day. Next, as a last chance option, I took all new calibration frames. I used several different variations of exposure time to adjust the histogram on my flats and even tried using bias frames. No help there.

So, at this point I’m thinking maybe I’m dealing with more than one issue, which is making the problem harder to identify. I did clean the Antlia filter about a year ago. I usually use “Kimtech” wipes, either “Pancro” or “ROR” cleaning solution and sometimes a “lens pen.” Honestly, I don’t know if those solutions contain alcohol, but I recently read that there is an alcohol soluble layer on this particular Antlia filter. However, later I read somewhere else that Antlia listed using alcohol as a step in their suggested cleaning process. (That’s the internet for ya !)

When I look at the images, it almost looks to me like the thinner ring on the righthand side is the clean part of the filter and the rest has some sort of varying haze over it. Maybe its the coating I’ve diluted when cleaning if any of that is true ? As far the filter wheel possibly shifting even after calibration, I don’t know. I’m relatively sure, that in order to balance the wheel, I installed the 3 filters, with Antlia on one side and the other 2 on the opposite, since the Antlia is a bit heavier. I will check into that. I also believe the Antlia filter is a few mm’s thicker than the Optolongs, but that shouldn’t affect back focus or the stacked image when using an auto focuser, correct ? All filters are mounted.

Any opinions or a nudge in the right direction would be helpful. Up till now, I’ve managed to process out most of it. However, it appears to be getting quite a bit worse or that some other variable changes the severity of the problem at different times.

I’ve done an ABE, simple stretch and NXT for clarity. Example 1 is the newest. Example 2 is a year older, and was taken using a filter drawer.

What say ye ?

example_2.png

example_1.png

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andrea tasselli avatar
It seems a clear case of internal reflection off the ALP-T  filter. What do the flats look like (both ALP-T and the others)?
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Michael Urvina avatar

andrea tasselli · Oct 19, 2025, 07:35 PM

It seems a clear case of internal reflection off the ALP-T  filter. What do the flats look like (both ALP-T and the others)?

Thanks for replying.

I’ve attached the flats taken with an ASI AIR. I used the “auto exposure” setting as well as manually adjusting the exposure at several points to move the peak of the histogram considerably to the left side. So these photos will just represent the most and least exposed ranges I’ve used.

By “ internal reflection” do you mean some form of a light leak ?

antlia_autoexp.jpg

antlia_manexp.jpg

uvir_autoexp.jpg

uvir_manexp.jpg

andrea tasselli avatar
Difficult to say without the actual fit file but I'll hazard that the ring structure is there. By internal reflection is meant a reflection off some surface back into the light path which cannot be corrected by flat-fielding. This is also called a "light leak".
Michael Urvina avatar

I can attach the “actual fit file” if it will help you confirm your suspicions. I just figured it was too large at almost 50 MB. Let me know.

That being said, how would one go about chasing down an internal reflection ? Would shinning a light at connection points on the image train, while looping captures show where the problem is located or would the light just scatter everywhere ?

Actually, I’ve often wondered if my image train was flexing after putting on the filter wheel. And the little gasket that comes with the filter wheel, that supposedly goes between the the two, didn’t line up with the screw holes in the camera unless I removed the tilt plate. Something that also appears to be a topic of disagreement as far as whether or not its necessary to remove it. I left it on because I didn’t want to risk harming the camera sensor. However, it would certainly seem plausible that the two flat metal surfaces are not going to mate well enough to block all light.

andrea tasselli · Oct 19, 2025, 08:40 PM

Difficult to say without the actual fit file but I'll hazard that the ring structure is there. By internal reflection is meant a reflection off some surface back into the light path which cannot be corrected by flat-fielding. This is also called a "light leak".

andrea tasselli avatar
You can't post a data file in AB forums, you'll need to make it available via a third party, such as dropbox or filebin or some-such. From what you said earlier it appears that the ring occurs only in conjunction with the ALP-T filter not with the others. I have the same filter and it doesn't cause me any issue and I've never heard of similar complains so far. This doesn't mean it can't happen, as you have witnessed. If this correct then the only available cure is to blacken all shiny surface of the filter, having previously masked the surface of the filter with a piece of paper/card. It can be done and I have done it in the past but it isn't for the faint of heart and requires a steady hand.
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Michael Urvina avatar

andrea tasselli · Oct 19, 2025, 09:55 PM

You can't post a data file in AB forums, you'll need to make it available via a third party, such as dropbox or filebin or some-such. From what you said earlier it appears that the ring occurs only in conjunction with the ALP-T filter not with the others. I have the same filter and it doesn't cause me any issue and I've never heard of similar complains so far. This doesn't mean it can't happen, as you have witnessed. If this correct then the only available cure is to blacken all shiny surface of the filter, having previously masked the surface of the filter with a piece of paper/card. It can be done and I have done it in the past but it isn't for the faint of heart and requires a steady hand.

I will probably bring in my gear once it clouds up again and start figuring out what to do. I get so few clear nights that I would rather work with it for now.

BTW, I really like your “Eta Carinae” photo. You’ve accomplished what I’ve failed to achieve with my photos. A bold, detailed photograph that is still delicate, while not looking overly processed and muddy.

Thank you for your help. I’ve seen you help others here on Astrobin, and I appreciate your willingness to do so.

ZigZagZebraz avatar

From the example1.png, the pattern looks similar to light leak from the back of the camera (air vent grating). Two half moon patterns. Noticed them in my Ogma AP26CC (IMX571 cooled camera), when I tried skyflats at nautical dawn. One side is brighter than the other. The brighter side was the East and the West was the reflection from the environment.

Is it possible there is a light (probably street light or some flood light)? Are you in the northern hemisphere, where it is autumn now. Probably, the leaves blocking the light have fallen down and lighting up your camera?

You had tried two filter holder options. Do not seem to solve the issue. So, most likely it is not the source. Only other option there is to use internal filter threads, if available in the adapter.

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Michael Urvina avatar

ZigZagZebraz · Oct 20, 2025, 11:55 AM

From the example1.png, the pattern looks similar to light leak from the back of the camera (air vent grating). Two half moon patterns. Noticed them in my Ogma AP26CC (IMX571 cooled camera), when I tried skyflats at nautical dawn. One side is brighter than the other. The brighter side was the East and the West was the reflection from the environment.

Is it possible there is a light (probably street light or some flood light)? Are you in the northern hemisphere, where it is autumn now. Probably, the leaves blocking the light have fallen down and lighting up your camera?

You had tried two filter holder options. Do not seem to solve the issue. So, most likely it is not the source. Only other option there is to use internal filter threads, if available in the adapter.

Michael Urvina avatar

Thank you for your input “ZigZagZebraz”

I have 2 more clear nights, then I’m going to bring my rig in and begin chasing down the issue(s). My neighbor does have a really bright yard light that he flips on when he lets his dogs out. However, those frames are usually totally washed out and so tossed before I stack the others in WBPP. Plus, I don’t notice the problem when using my other filters that block even less of that type of light. But, I’m not going to rule anything out.

My biggest concern is that I destroyed my filter by implementing a bad cleaning process. We all know this isn’t a cheap hobby. So, I will exhaust all other possibilities before replacing the Antlia.

When you experienced this issue with your camera, was it as severe as in my photo or was is more of a shifting gradient ?

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ZigZagZebraz avatar

Filters and their coatings are hard to kill. Don’t worry too much. Just breathe on them open mouthed and wipe off with a Q-Tip. (https://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=103). That is the mildest of the cleaning options in the Televue lens cleaning instruction in the link.

The half moon pattern on my flats was way worse, the sunlight is brighter even at Nautical dawn.

Check the sensor glass as well. If it does not have a dew heater, might have condensation. My camera has a heater for the sensor glass. Also, I skipped the use of a filter drawer. Installed the filter on the filter threads of the reducer adapter on my Askar V. A PITA to change, but avoids any dew build up far from the camera.

All the best

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Grigory2020 avatar

I have Antlia filters 50mm and 1.25” round not mounted and I did not have any issues with those. At the beginning I do remember that I had a light leak with 1.25” filters and it was due to not proper fitting of the filter to the filter wheel, so I had to do mask that would cover the place where filter is touching the filter wheel. However, that would not be halos around stars.

To rule out the light leak try to image without filters, and if you still see the issue, you can rule out filters as a culprit. Just and idea.

Good luck resolving the issue.

Grigory

Michael Urvina avatar

Grigory2020 · Oct 23, 2025, 08:42 AM

I have Antlia filters 50mm and 1.25” round not mounted and I did not have any issues with those. At the beginning I do remember that I had a light leak with 1.25” filters and it was due to not proper fitting of the filter to the filter wheel, so I had to do mask that would cover the place where filter is touching the filter wheel. However, that would not be halos around stars.

To rule out the light leak try to image without filters, and if you still see the issue, you can rule out filters as a culprit. Just and idea.

Good luck resolving the issue.

Grigory

Thank you for your input. I have tested short stacks using the 2 other filters in my filter wheel, and they do not exhibit the same problem as the Antlia filter. I also ran the calibration for the FW, and while the new images still have a definite visible ring, it is much less pronounced. Maybe, that’s evidence backing my assumption that my problem stems from more than just a single issue.

At this point, I’m probably going to have to accept the probability that I either used the incorrect cleaning solution, used too much, or simply had a bad technique when cleaning this particular filter. I have the 3nm version on the way to replace my 5nm, because I don’t believe this is a fault with the Antlia filter whatsoever, but simply operator error. I will update this post with any definitive information once found.

I recently read that some people haven’t cleaned their optics in years or even decades. So from now on, unless the filter is excessively dirty or I purchase another filter that will necessitate opening the FW, I will just leave it be. However, because there’s no such thing as the “last one” in astrophotography, I am also interested in the SII/OIII or SII/Hb offering from Antlia, but that’s a discussion for a separate post and will require more research.

Thanks again.

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Grigory2020 avatar

That is true, you should not clean your equipment too often. I have not cleaned it even once, and it’s been more than two years now. If you have good flats, it is good enough.

Just another thought… Possible filters are installed backwards? However, if you have mounted filters, then it is ruled out. I think you do…

I would recommend Antlia filters in general. I have two full sets of 50mm and 1.25”.

Interesting to know what your final result would be.

Grigory