Samyang 135mm lens - 36mm or 2" filters for APSC

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Brian avatar
Hi,

I just bought the 135mm Samyang lens.

Now I'm planning to buy an IMX571 mono camera.

Which filter size do I need — 36mm or 2"?

Greetings
Brian
Well Written
danieldh206 avatar
Because the lens is fast, you will need 2" filters designed for fast optics. A 2" filter is necessary to prevent vignetting with faster optics. 

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/ccd_filter_size


There are other filter size calculators.
Brian avatar
I used the calculator. I added some more filter to sensor distance just to make sure (Standard is 20mm).
Here are the results

F2:



F2.8


When you look at the min. size it should fit,
andrea tasselli avatar
Depending on the camera and how close the filter is to the sensor a 36mm filter could be viable. All NB filters need to be pre-shifted to comply with a f/2 cone.
danieldh206 avatar
Brian:
I used the calculator. I added some more filter to sensor distance just to make sure (Standard is 20mm).
Here are the results

F2:



F2.8


When you look at the min. size it should fit,

You should also test some shorter and longer focal lengths, in case you plan on using different lenses with the camera.
Well Written
Brian avatar
You should also test some shorter and longer focal lengths, in case you plan on using different lenses with the camera.


Longer FLs should be no problem.
I also have an FS-60Cb with reducer and maybe a C11 in the future.
All of these scopes work with 36mm.

So I think the 36mm filters would be fine?
andrea tasselli avatar
Brian:
So I think the 36mm filters would be fine?


As I said before it depends on how far the filter will sit from the sensor. The realistic limit is about 20-21mm. Whether you can achieve that  depends on the choice of both camera and FW. Note that my numbers will still cause partial clipping of the marginal rays but in a acceptable way, I believe.
Brian avatar
I will go for the 2" just to be sure. I dont want to spend so much money for maybe getting problems.


I will buy the 4.5nm Antlia SHO. 
The Antlia are 2mm thick. Do you think I can pair them with LRGB sets from other brands like ToupTek or Optolong? They are also 2mm thick.
andrea tasselli avatar
Brian:
he Antlia are 2mm thick. Do you think I can pair them with LRGB sets from other brands like ToupTek or Optolong? They are also 2mm thick.


Yes.
Noah Tingey avatar
I've used the 36mm antlias with a QHY268M in a Nikon-mount Rokinon 135mm f2. It works fine for me. 

Do note, though, that you'll probably be stopping your lens down to ~f/2.8 anyway to get better stars. So you'll certainly be good to go in that case. At f/2.8 I only get a 26.2% vignette in the very far corner.
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eric belanger avatar
Hello .

I took this image with the rokinon 135mm and antlia highspeed 36mm at f2.8 . 

No flats were needed 

https://www.astrobin.com/ndccdw/
Die Launische Diva avatar
eric belanger:
Hello .

I took this image with the rokinon 135mm and antlia highspeed 36mm at f2.8 . 

No flats were needed 

https://www.astrobin.com/ndccdw/

Flats are definitely needed with the Samyang/Rokinon at f/2.8, even for a crop sensor, and even if the optics and sensor are pristine clean (they are not and never will be). With some care you can take quality flats and make your life easier during gradient correction.
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andrea tasselli avatar
Flats are ALWAYS required.
Dan H. M. avatar
Keep in mind the clear aperture of a filter is significantly less than the total diameter, even with 36mm unmounted. You should find out the clear aperture of the filter you intend to use. When those calculators refer to “minimum filter size” they really mean minimum clear aperture.
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Carastro avatar
Because the lens is fast, you will need 2" filters designed for fast optics. A 2" filter is necessary to prevent vignetting with faster optics. 

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/ccd_filter_size


There are other filter size calculators.

I use 36mm filters with mine.
Observatório Astrográfico do Boqueirão avatar
Friendly advice and do like I did: go with 2" filters and you'll have filters for life! For all size of sensors.
I've learned that mistake in the earlier beginning.. Oh, and I have the same lens, but I like to use her with smaller sensors as well all my scopes.

Regards,

Cesar
andrea tasselli avatar
2" filters as commonly referred here aren't really 2" but more likely between 44-43.5 mm in clear diameter (and threaded to M48) and sometimes even less so most definitely will not fit all sensors and I am considering FF sensor only but medium format sensors are just over the corner…

BTW, 2" threaded filters were and are still used for large telephoto lens of a couple of generations ago, the latest generations go for smaller ones.
Observatório Astrográfico do Boqueirão avatar
andrea tasselli:
2" filters as commonly referred here aren't really 2" but more likely between 44-43.5 mm in clear diameter (and threaded to M48) and sometimes even less so most definitely will not fit all sensors and I am considering FF sensor only but medium format sensors are just over the corner...

BTW, 2" threaded filters were and are still used for large telephoto lens of a couple of generations ago, the latest generations go for smaller ones.

You’re right and really depends on the brand but that principle also goes for 36mm, 31mm, etc.. 
Filter wheels also take on them around 1.5-2mm (depending on the brand) of each side of the corners where the filters are sitting. So for a 36mm filter you’ll loose 3mm, some times 4mm, etc..

I still think the best approach are the 2”, but that’s not my wallet we are talking about.
The only sensors size that those filters can’t cover are the Medium Format ones, but that is the type of camera that most of us won’t use it in the daily basis.

I’ve stopped buying 1.25” filers, 31mm and 36mm the minute that I went with fast systems.
I still use my “old” cameras, the 4/3’s sensors size who can take 1.25” easily, but starting to change the filters for me was not only a solving problem to work with the Hyperstar and the Samyang 135, but also an investment for the future since the  major brands of astronomy equipment tend to upper the sensor sizes.

Best regards to all,

Cesar
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