Hello and welcome! I want to hear from everyone using Seastar who has already tried the newly released 2.5 version. This long-awaited feature involves image calibration, which is going to be a game-changer for us. With this update, Seastar is set to support all calibration frames, starting with the crucial addition of flats, referred to as Flat Shoot. While I’m not sure why they went with that name instead of just calling it Flat Frame, the bottom line is that flat frames are essential in astrophotography. They help improve image quality by correcting issues like vignetting and dark spots. Given the direction Seastar seems to be heading, I'm confident we will soon see full support for all calibration frames, including darks and biases. If that’s the case, Seastar is on the verge of entering a new era in astrophotography. So, what do you all think? Has anyone had a chance to try out the flat shooting feature? I’d love to know what methods you’re using to capture them!
Seastar Going to Enter A New Era in Terms of Astrophotography?
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If I'm not mistaken, the Seestar is already doing darks and uses them for its lights. Now it's simply adding flats to do the same.
Not sure if I would call it a "new era" but it's probably a welcoming addition for many
Not sure if I would call it a "new era" but it's probably a welcoming addition for many
Sascha:
If I'm not mistaken, the Seestar is already doing darks and uses them for its lights. Now it's simply adding flats to do the same.
Not sure if I would call it a "new era," but it's probably a welcoming addition for many
I thought it would be something like those obtainable flats where you can just get the frames and reuse them for stacking. But I guess that’s not the case? It does make sense, though, since it’s a smart telescope and all. Still, wouldn’t it be amazing if you could obtain calibration frames in the same way you can get them from a modern telescope setup? I mean, I’d still say we’re in a new era with this technology because it really is changing the way our final images will turn out. It's fascinating!
Am I correct to assume you only need to acquire flats when you think necessary and not before every session.
Flats help remove vignetting and dust spots. So, unless the dust shifts, or there's worse vignetting you won't need to retake flats. Now, I typically take flats after the session because more dust may have accumulated. But, I've heard people do it before or after. Doesn't make that much of a difference until it does.
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I’ve got a SeeStar S50, and while I anticipate being able to obtain better results than possible before the latest update, the SeeStar scopes will continue to have inherent limitations based on the physical properties of the optics and sensor. You can potentially get really great images, but it’s not a “big rig”. I’ll never be able to see the details that my friend’s 11” refractor with a cooled sensor camera can see.
For $500, I’m thrilled with the S50 and appreciate ZWO’s constant improvements. Coupled with the most recent Siril upgrade, it’s a mighty little scope!
For $500, I’m thrilled with the S50 and appreciate ZWO’s constant improvements. Coupled with the most recent Siril upgrade, it’s a mighty little scope!
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The new version of Seestar OS has enhanced its Calibration frames by adding Flat Frames. Like Darks these are not not accessible to the User and are used internally by the system during stacking. Also another feature addition is of having 60 sec Exposures in EQ mode. Both are good developments !
Not sure I would label this new capability as a “new era”. I think that the “new era” happened when ZWO introduced the SeeStar or even started a new chapter when they introduced equatorial mode. This is just a natural progression and the manufacturer responding to the user community. Unfortunately no new capability can control the weather 😞.
The way it operates as I understand it is you take a flat and the SeeStar will use that data to calibrate each proceeding image—the same way it uses the dark during the “optimizing image” phase at the beginning of a shoot. If you are worried about accumulating dust through the session you can take flats during the session as the SeeStar will use the last flat taken to calibrate subsequent images.
Just recognize this is by no means a match to a cooled camera rig on a quality mount. For example I believe the color moddle I see when stacking the images in pixinsight could be improved with a cooled sensor—certainly the graininess would be. Maybe the introduction of a flat will help with the moddle problem. Don’t know yet but as soon as the weather permits I plan on trying the new capability including the 60sec exposure. I wish I had the ability to enter the exposure value since seeing and target location can dictate optimum exposure times. But that is for another discussion and maybe will be an item on a subsequent list, wink wink.
The way it operates as I understand it is you take a flat and the SeeStar will use that data to calibrate each proceeding image—the same way it uses the dark during the “optimizing image” phase at the beginning of a shoot. If you are worried about accumulating dust through the session you can take flats during the session as the SeeStar will use the last flat taken to calibrate subsequent images.
Just recognize this is by no means a match to a cooled camera rig on a quality mount. For example I believe the color moddle I see when stacking the images in pixinsight could be improved with a cooled sensor—certainly the graininess would be. Maybe the introduction of a flat will help with the moddle problem. Don’t know yet but as soon as the weather permits I plan on trying the new capability including the 60sec exposure. I wish I had the ability to enter the exposure value since seeing and target location can dictate optimum exposure times. But that is for another discussion and maybe will be an item on a subsequent list, wink wink.
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Yes, the addition of flat frames is only going to help improve image quality. I give ZWO a lot of of credit for their consistent release of firm ware update with new and valuable features. One I would like to see in the near future is the ability to reboot or power cycle the Seestar from the dashboard. Also, if the SS could reboot after a power outage when its plugged into the usb power. You see I use and S50 at a remote observatory and these abilities would be very handy. Now if I want a reboot, I have to put in a service ticket so someone can come and push the power button. I realize I am pushing the limits of the S50 by having it at a remote observatory. But so far in 9 months, it has performed better than expected.
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By the sounds and looks of it you are not alone. I have seen all the Seestars lined up on the ledge in the role off observatory…
Carlos:
Yes, the addition of flat frames is only going to help improve image quality. I give ZWO a lot of of credit for their consistent release of firm ware update with new and valuable features. One I would like to see in the near future is the ability to reboot or power cycle the Seestar from the dashboard. Also, if the SS could reboot after a power outage when its plugged into the usb power. You see I use and S50 at a remote observatory and these abilities would be very handy. Now if I want a reboot, I have to put in a service ticket so someone can come and push the power button. I realize I am pushing the limits of the S50 by having it at a remote observatory. But so far in 9 months, it has performed better than expected.
Speaking of features, I strongly believe we need to see an improved EQ mode in future updates. This enhancement should simplify our polar alignment process, allowing us to spend more time observing rather than struggling with adjustments. Specifically, I envision a feature that reduces the azimuth and altitude readings after polar alignment deviation. By limiting these numbers to 50°, we can avoid complications if the seastar is significantly tilted; the values will stabilize once we reach that 50-degree threshold.
Once we've set the seastar to our current altitude, there's no need for further adjustments to those parameters. I would label this improvement as pure polar alignment. This functionality would be particularly beneficial for users with the Skywatcher Adventurer wedge. I’ve already communicated this suggestion to ZWO, and they have acknowledged it and may consider adding it. The seastar truly deserves more advanced and intelligent features.
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Yes, I was the first to have a Seestar at SFRO back in July. Now, there are close to 12 or more! It is the easiest and least expensive way to have a telescope at a remote observatory. If ZWO ever incorporates the full ASI Air into the Seestar, then it would get even cheaper because you would not need a computer, in my case a Mac mini, to control it.
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Hi, I had a seestar and I agree it is an incredible little scope to start astrophoto or discover the night sky. For me the really new thing is the equatorial mode of the seestar that will allow to extend the duration of exposures and/or avoid field rotation visible on the integrated image.
At the end I sold it as I have a dedicated astrophoto setup but I would recommend it to a beginner or somebody flighing to a dark sky without any doubt.
CS, Frédéric
At the end I sold it as I have a dedicated astrophoto setup but I would recommend it to a beginner or somebody flighing to a dark sky without any doubt.
CS, Frédéric
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I have not read all the comments but wanted to chime in. After reading the buzz and seeing some youtube videos I decided to give some of these new features a try.
To start, I realize this might sound negative, but I just don't see the value of the flats. I will continue to take them because its so easy, but I feel like their value is diminished in the seestar.
This seestar system is custom built by ZWO there is no scenario where you should ever get vignetting.
As for uneven light, I suppose that could be an issue, but I have not seen it in any of my seestar images.
But.... Maybe when you use 60 second exposure it becomes more evident, and that's why they released the 60sec exposure and flats together? Maybe?
As for the 60 second exposures, my very limited testing, showed a very small improvement in fainter images, when compared to the equivalent integration time with 30 second subs.
(There was a pretty big difference between 6x10second subs when compared to 1x60second sub, but very little comparing 2x30second subs to 1x60 second sub.)
Additionally, (my personal preference is to go with 30 second subs) , it pains me 2x less to drop a 30 second frame than a 60 second frame, and my unscientific testing showed less percentage of dropped frame for 30sec than 60sec.
I was skeptical about EQ mode, but I totally see its value now. No field rotation and longer subs, the difference between 10 second subs and 30 second subs does produce nicer images in my opinion.
For 500$ the seestar is the ultimate gateway drug into astrophotography, and likely all that a casually interested astronomer / AP might ever want.
To start, I realize this might sound negative, but I just don't see the value of the flats. I will continue to take them because its so easy, but I feel like their value is diminished in the seestar.
- Flat frames are used to correct vignetting and uneven illumination.
This seestar system is custom built by ZWO there is no scenario where you should ever get vignetting.
As for uneven light, I suppose that could be an issue, but I have not seen it in any of my seestar images.
But.... Maybe when you use 60 second exposure it becomes more evident, and that's why they released the 60sec exposure and flats together? Maybe?
As for the 60 second exposures, my very limited testing, showed a very small improvement in fainter images, when compared to the equivalent integration time with 30 second subs.
(There was a pretty big difference between 6x10second subs when compared to 1x60second sub, but very little comparing 2x30second subs to 1x60 second sub.)
Additionally, (my personal preference is to go with 30 second subs) , it pains me 2x less to drop a 30 second frame than a 60 second frame, and my unscientific testing showed less percentage of dropped frame for 30sec than 60sec.
I was skeptical about EQ mode, but I totally see its value now. No field rotation and longer subs, the difference between 10 second subs and 30 second subs does produce nicer images in my opinion.
For 500$ the seestar is the ultimate gateway drug into astrophotography, and likely all that a casually interested astronomer / AP might ever want.
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Flats are the most important calibration images you can take so as such, really shouldn't be so easily dismissed. I don't know wide the 100% illuminated field is on a Seestar but most optical systems have a certain amount of falloff so it makes sense to correct for it, even if it isn't gross vignetting.
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Clayton Ostler:
I have not read all the comments but wanted to chime in. After reading the buzz and seeing some youtube videos I decided to give some of these new features a try.
To start, I realize this might sound negative, but I just don't see the value of the flats. I will continue to take them because its so easy, but I feel like their value is diminished in the seestar.
- Flat frames are used to correct vignetting and uneven illumination.
This seestar system is custom built by ZWO there is no scenario where you should ever get vignetting.
As for uneven light, I suppose that could be an issue, but I have not seen it in any of my seestar images.
But.... Maybe when you use 60 second exposure it becomes more evident, and that's why they released the 60sec exposure and flats together? Maybe?
As for the 60 second exposures, my very limited testing, showed a very small improvement in fainter images, when compared to the equivalent integration time with 30 second subs.
(There was a pretty big difference between 6x10second subs when compared to 1x60second sub, but very little comparing 2x30second subs to 1x60 second sub.)
Additionally, (my personal preference is to go with 30 second subs) , it pains me 2x less to drop a 30 second frame than a 60 second frame, and my unscientific testing showed less percentage of dropped frame for 30sec than 60sec.
I was skeptical about EQ mode, but I totally see its value now. No field rotation and longer subs, the difference between 10 second subs and 30 second subs does produce nicer images in my opinion.
For 500$ the seestar is the ultimate gateway drug into astrophotography, and likely all that a casually interested astronomer / AP might ever want.
I believe you're absolutely correct about the necessity of 60 seconds of exposure. Initially, I questioned what that duration was really for. While I understand that longer exposure times result in more detailed final images, I wondered if it meant significantly more time required for each frame. However, now that you've pointed out the connection between the new exposure settings and the addition of flats, it makes sense. I'm curious to see if others have also endorsed this reasoning for the changes.
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Tony Gondola:
Flats are the most important calibration images you can take so as such, really shouldn't be so easily dismissed. I don't know wide the 100% illuminated field is on a Seestar but most optical systems have a certain amount of falloff so it makes sense to correct for it, even if it isn't gross vignetting.
In a traditional Astrophotography imaging train I would completely agree with you.
In the Seestar however, its not really a "train" at all,
Personally, I dont take flats for milky way images with my DLSR either, but even that seems more applicable than taking them for the Seestar.
Seestar is a f5 50mm refractor fixed focal length and aperture. built directly in to the device, so is the filter, focusers, and the super tiny IMX462 sensor. (with the 6.46mm diagonal sensor)
Keep in mind there are literally thousands of these already being used, with no sign of light fall off that I have ever heard of. Im not a ZWO sales guy, but I bet someone has stated "with over a million hours of integration time" hahaha.
Like I said, I will take the flats anyway because they are so easy to do, and in my actual AP rig I use them every time, but the SeeStar... no so much.
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