Homebuilt Stellarmate/Astroberry - Forums

Hi folks:

I'm thinking of getting into guiding, and considering a homebuilt Stellarmate or Astroberry machine, rather than forking out for the ASIAIR Plus. Stellarmate Gadget is out of stock, so I'm thinking of building my own Raspberry Pi machine and installing one or the other and giving it a shot.

My question is, has anyone built their own Stellarmate or Astroberry box? Other than the Pi board, power & case, do I need any other hardware - the Real Time Clock for Stellarmate?

Has it been a positive experience for those of you who use one of these systems, as opposed to the ASIAIR? Do you spend a lot of time troubleshooting, or does it work smoothly enough that you spend the better part of your time actually imaging?

This is all unfamiliar territory for me (I've been imaging un-guided with a Z61 and a Skyguider Pro for about a year now) so I appreciate any insight!

CS,
Mark

Do you mean installing the INDI and Ekos/Kstars software on a Raspberry Pi, or do you want additional hardware, such as controlled 12 V outputs? Just installing the software is easy enough, and many have done it, including me. There are instructions for this on indilib.org. I've also seen at least one project for a power hat (controlled power outputs) on the indi forum. This will involve more diy activities.
The standard INDI installation works smooth enough, but not always flawlessly. As with any sufficiently advanced system, things can break in both hardware and software.

Hope this helps.

cs,
Wim

Hi Wim:

Thanks for your reply. Actually, I'm referring to the software packages Stellarmate and Astroberry. They include INDI & Ekos/Kstars software elements, bundled together and (hopefully) playing well together, as well as a VNC server to allow remote control (Stellarmate even allows control over iOS or Android app). I'm curious how well they work as systems, and whether they're more headache and tinkering than they're worth, compared to an out-of-the-box solution like the ASIAIR Pro/Plus.

All of my devices are powered by USB connection, so I'm not too concerned with 12V outputs just yet. Maybe down the road, though - thanks for the suggestion!

Cheers,
Mark

I've never had an ASI air to compare, but from the video's I've seen, it's more polished from UI perspective (and has less features than EKOS). I've bought at some point the stellarmate image, burned it into an sd card and used my rpi4. You don't need any additional hardware, just an RPI, sd card and cables (power, usb to mount/camera, etc…).

Stellarmate has an app if you want to use it on your phone, but I never got into that, I always preferred to VNC into the machine and do things in EKOS. If you're connected to a WiFi network, then the clock will automatically sync. If you're out in the field, you either need an RTC or you can just set the time/date manually. Learned this the hard way, took me an hour of troubleshooting as to why platesolving is not working

I've never had an ASIAIR, so I can't speak for that one. But I've been using quite a lot EKOS/INDI and it's a fantastic ecosystem.
Initially, I was using StellarmateOS on a RPi. Very handy, everything is configured (besides, of course, your equipment). Then I switched over to a miniPC due to some hardware instability, and never looked back (fast, reliable, powerful). On the miniPC I'm using Linux with EKOS/INDI.
I must say that EKOS requires a bit more "willingness to learn", at least initially. But once you've configured everything, you can backup the config and you're done (at least until you change your equipment :happy-5

The internal guider is awesome. With my CEM70 I can guide at 0.30 RMS. Never used PHD2 tbh.
Also, with that ecosystem I don't have to be worried about buying only ZWO hardware, which is a big plus.

I can't speak for any raspberry pi system, I have no experience with them.
And can only speak of the asiair experience, which for me has been very pleasant.

If you're only using ZWO products (camera, guide camera, filterwheel, focuser), it's possibly worth going for the ASIAIR.
It is a very polished experience. (I own 2, 3rd on the way). and pretty much plug&play.

If you own other products that aren't ZWO, then the ASIAIR simply isn't for you.
Guess it depends on what you already have, looking at your pictures and data, it would appear you're using a canon for your images?
I do believe yours would be supported by asiair, but you might have to confirm it on their website.

It is (was) lacking some "fine control" features, where control through a computer or other software might give a little more control when it comes to dithering, focussing, aiming, guiding, meridian flip.. But.. realistically, I'm doing just fine without it and it's a great "out of the box" solution to my rigs. The updates that they're doing have already increased the control a lot! Plan modes, multi target planning, multistar guiding,

Either way, building your own is always an interesting project. I have seen recent videos on it.
this is one I can remember watching recently. he talks about all the parts he has to basically make an entire basic rig with a raspberry pi.
4 minutes in or so, he discusses the parts he uses.

hope it helps, best of luck!

Hi,

personally I used the Astroberry Software for a while. It worked really well and I had no issues with my deep sky images. If the Astroberry has an internet connection, there is no real time clock needed. I connected a UBlox 7 GPS-Device to the Pi and this also receives clock information. So a RTC is not a must. Nevertheless, I would recommend an I2C device, because integration is quite simple. For all the hardware/software there are really easy tutorials available. I didn't know much about linux and was able to get everything running without problems.

I had the Pi with astroberry mounted directly on my scope and basically had no additional hardware connected. After a while I integrated some temperature sensors or a relay board to switch some stuff on the scope. KStars/Ecos is great with integrating those devices without a huge knowledge about software or hardware. I really loved this all-in-one solution.

But after a while, i switched back to a windows PC. The reason is, that I used some advanced hardware stuff, that was only available for windows. The Astroberry is still my mobile solution and a backup system. But I haven't used it much, lately.

CS

Christian

Wow!

You guys are awesome. Some really helpful feedback from all of you.

@Michel, thanks for clarifying re: the RTC. I might try and get my hands on the controller that Stellarmate installs in their Gadget.

@Paolo that's some impressive guiding! Glad to hear that there's a certain set-it-and-forget-it aspect to EKOS setup. I don't mind a bit of a learning curve, as long as it doesn't keep breaking on me

@StevenI've also heard great things about the ASIAIR, and many astrophotographers I greatly respect use it. I'm staying in the ZWO ecosystem in case I want to switch up to it at some point in the future.

@Christianglad to hear Astroberry worked well for you. I'm out of my depth here with the I2C thing - could you elaborate a bit? I googled it but I'm still not clear on the application here. Was it hardware you added for focusing/temperture monitoring/power distribution?

I'm getting the guide scope and camera now for sure, and I can either afford an L-Pro and a Raspberry Pi, or no L-Pro and pre-order the ASIAIR Plus. If I go with the former, I can start guiding right away and I finally get my hands on the L-Pro. The latter, and I have to wait for the L-Pro until I can save up more money, and I have to wait until who knows when to start guiding - I know pre-orders start shipping late November for the Plus, but I'm wondering if the first batch might already be sold out. I know there are some real supply shortages right now.

Thanks again to everyone for chiming in!

CS,
Mark

I have been using Astroberry for about 2 years now on a Raspberry Pi 4. Works like a charm, with regular feature enhancements that are driven by the community. Cheap hardware, free software, and no Windows updates in the middle of the night. Actually, I am running it from my home in the Netherlands on a remote rig based in Spain using VNC; no problemo.

Clear nights,
Marcel

Brilliant, thank you @Marcel!

Has anyone here started out with Astroberry and "upgraded" to Stellarmate or ASIAIR? I get the sense that Astroberry is the kind of thing that would be more popular if folks weren't intimidated by the prospect of building their own Raspberry Pi machine, rather than any lack of functionality when compared to the ASIAIR.

Mark Germani:
@Christian glad to hear Astroberry worked well for you. I'm out of my depth here with the I2C thing - could you elaborate a bit? I googled it but I'm still not clear on the application here. Was it hardware you added for focusing/temperture monitoring/power distribution?

Hi Mark,

don't worry about the RTC. This device is just there to remeber the clock and date after you switched the power of the unit off. With an internet connection, it will sync itself after a restart. If you do not have an internet connection during your work, you always can set the date and time manually. It will work somehow.

I2C is rather simple. You just buy a RTC device like this

https://www.amazon.de/DollaTek-DS1307-AT24C32-Module-Arduino/dp/B07DJ8X8RW/ref=sr_1_6?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=ic+real+time+clock&qid=1635279965&qsid=260-8663026-0005048&sr=8-6&sres=B07TZ5JMZD%2CB08H16Z89K%2CB08FX8RL6F%2CB08D7HN4WH%2CB01M2B7HQB%2CB07DJ8X8RW%2CB07PKR4QYW%2CB082M9N1WQ%2CB07DJ4YD6V%2CB07G8W5JQC%2CB07RGTFWS3%2CB07R2KQH3R%2CB072JTR69N%2CB07MB8YGCR%2CB07WS84H44%2CB06W2PLFJY%2CB01H5NAFUY%2CB07RLSSFB4%2CB07DK5M5VW%2CB07DK1SRPB

and then you connect GND to one of the GND Pins, VCC with a 3,3V Pin, SDA with SDA and SCL with SCL of the Raspberry Pi. Make sure, you use a LR2032 battery and not a CR2032!!! The LR is recharchable and the CR is not made for this kind of circuit. Then you can follow the instructions on

https://learn.adafruit.com/adding-a-real-time-clock-to-raspberry-pi/set-rtc-time

for example (there are many other pages out there) and make this thing work.

The temperature monitoring was done by a BME280 sensor which is also available as a small module and is connected the same way. But this is not neccessary for the basic operation. You just need a Raspberry Pi (4) and the SD card with the software on it. Thats it.

The ASIAir may have all this included (I didn't use it), but it is much more expensive and limited to ZWO devices. It's up to you to decide. Neither will be a bad decision i guess. But the Astroberry is not as complicated as one may think.

Not sure, if this helps...

CS

Christian

Hey Mark,i build a astroberry myself based on a raspberry pi 4 4gig.

it works ,but i must say , you need the 8 gig version ,it will be much smoother. Also try to get a fan so it can be cooled much better.

But it works good,install the base build and update with terminal etc.

@John that's really good to know. I was going to go with 4gb because the price jumps way up for the 8gb. I'll have to shop around and see if I can find a good deal. As far as the fan goes, I was planning on just attaching the heat sinks as I'll only be using the unit outdoors for a few hours at a time, and it doesn't get too hot outside where I live (Vancouver, Canada) most of the year. Maybe I need to rethink that too.

Anyone else care to weigh in on RAM/Fan requirements?

I'm down with updating in Terminal, though. I'm a web developer by day, so that's old hat

ok,well the heatsink in combo with the fan will work out good i think, the winters in canada will keep it cool enough.

i would get a super fast sd card for the OS ,and maybe a extern ssd for the data.

John:
Hey Mark,i build a astroberry myself based on a raspberry pi 4 4gig.

it works ,but i must say , you need the 8 gig version ,it will be much smoother. Also try to get a fan so it can be cooled much better.

But it works good,install the base build and update with terminal etc.

Cooling is necessary. Personally I used a metal case, that is used as a heat sink without a fan.

https://www.amazon.de/Geekworm-Raspberry-Aluminum-Passive-Dissaption/dp/B07ZVJDRF3/ref=sr_1_3?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=Raspberry+Pi+4+Geh%C3%A4use&qid=1635310431&sr=8-3

I never had any issues.

@ChristianI’ve heard that metal cases disrupt the wifi signal if you plan to connect using wireless/phone app. Did you use wifi with your setup, and if so did you encounter any issues?

CS,
Mark

Mark Germani:
@ChristianI’ve heard that metal cases disrupt the wifi signal if you plan to connect using wireless/phone app. Did you use wifi with your setup, and if so did you encounter any issues?

CS,
Mark

Thats a good point. You are right. I don't know if it works, cause I've used only the LAN connection...

Mark Germani:
@ChristianI’ve heard that metal cases disrupt the wifi signal if you plan to connect using wireless/phone app. Did you use wifi with your setup, and if so did you encounter any issues?

CS,
Mark

Can't speak for the raspberry, but just look at the complaints and issues with the ASIAIR as soon as they switched to the metal housing of the ASIAIR Pro.. barely getting signal 4 meters away from my scope and had to fix it with a TP-link router attached to it. Hence they're bringing out the "Plus" with a wifi antenna.

So yes, plastic! or metal+wifi antenna would be my advice too.

I've been running Stellarmate OS on 4 Gb Raspberry pi 4s for a year or so on my two mounts and am extremely happy with it. I've used them with ZWO, Atik, SX and Altair cameras (the SX and Altair as guidecams) ZWO and SX filter weels, Skywatcher NEQ6 and EQ6R mounts, and Pegasus focus cubes, all without problems. I also use GPS dongles so that the systems know where they are.

The few times that I have had problems, Jasem at Stellarmate has responded quickly and very helpfully to my questions.

The pi computers have a very small antenna, apparently to meet broadcasting regulations, and so the hotspot mode isn't very powerful. It also lost connection with the house wifi (with extender) when the metal of the mount/scopes got between the it and the signal. You can get a wifi dongle that helps. When I built my observatory I put them on ethernet and this works perfectly.

The other issue is that the pi is power hungry. I built a power box for my dual rig and included a 10 amp USB (5.1 V) output but the pi complained about low power, although it worked fine. Eventually I went back to the 3 amp Raspberry power supplies and the problem went away.

I use a 4Gb Pi4 with a SM base, have ditched the SD card (after updating the Pi4 firmware), and now use an SSD for both the OS + image storage. MUCH faster, with better reliability. For PI4 hardware enhancements, you will definitely want a fan even with heat sinks (minor work to add). The Pi4 will throttle load if triggered by temperature. I strongly recommend using a powered USB hub for all your gear, and then just plug the data cable from the USB hub into the Pi4 USB3 port. Everything else in the powered hub. This avoids power issues. Finally, signal interference between wireless, USB3, and HDMI will possibly be a problem (if using a Pi4's USB3 port(s)). This can be avoided by using ethernet, wifi dongle, or other methods (search the forum for "wifi interference" ) .

Finally, there is a good script that (mostly) automates the software build process for a base SM or Astroberry build. Search the forum for "Jerry Black build script" ) .

I've seen the ASIAir interface, and IMO, it can't compete with SM or Astroberry. These can be more complicated, but also more capable. Better adjustments = finer control.

Good luck & CS

Doug Summers:
I use a 4Gb Pi4 with a SM base, have ditched the SD card (after updating the Pi4 firmware), and now use an SSD for both the OS + image storage. MUCH faster, with better reliability. For PI4 hardware enhancements, you will definitely want a fan even with heat sinks (minor work to add). The Pi4 will throttle load if triggered by temperature. I strongly recommend using a powered USB hub for all your gear, and then just plug the data cable from the USB hub into the Pi4 USB3 port. Everything else in the powered hub. This avoids power issues. Finally, signal interference between wireless, USB3, and HDMI will possibly be a problem (if using a Pi4's USB3 port(s)). This can be avoided by using ethernet, wifi dongle, or other methods (search the forum for "wifi interference" ) .

Finally, there is a good script that (mostly) automates the software build process for a base SM or Astroberry build. Search the forum for "Jerry Black build script" ) .

I've seen the ASIAir interface, and IMO, it can't compete with SM or Astroberry. These can be more complicated, but also more capable. Better adjustments = finer control.

Good luck & CS

Oh boy! This sounds pretty complicated.
I am using an ASIair Pro because it's simple. So, there is a solution for everyone.

Lots of experience here, so let me add mine: I am using Astrberry on a 16g Raspberry 4 in a metal case with heat sinks but no fan. I have attached a GPS reciever to it, and for me it worked like a charm from the beginning.

I use it mobile and connect to it via VNC with my mobile phone. Besides the GPS, it controlls a Celestron CGEM (to be replaced soon by a GPX), a Zwo 1600mm, a Zwo EAF and a Zwo FW.

I found the Indy substem very stable and easy to configure compared to ASCOM. I have no experience with Stellarmate or AsiAir and no plans to go away from Astroberry. Just my personal experience, others mileage may vary a lot.

Thanks for all the input, folks! I've ordered all the bits and bobs for my Pi, and will start with Astroberry. Got an ABS case with a fan, and a high-speed Micro SD card. Looks like rainy nights for the next few weeks, so this will keep me busy!

Cheers,
Mark

Mark Germani:
Thanks for all the input, folks! I've ordered all the bits and bobs for my Pi, and will start with Astroberry. Got an ABS case with a fan, and a high-speed Micro SD card. Looks like rainy nights for the next few weeks, so this will keep me busy!

Cheers,
Mark

good luck,i connect tru VNc to astroberry.local instead of a browser..that goes much faster.

I am currently running an RPi4 with Astroberry installed.

My first go with this was to also purchase a 7" touchscreen (+case) and have a screen available right at the scope for the RPi4. This was most similar to running with a control laptop at the mount, which is how I used to control things. I moved away from this because a) lots of cables still running back and forth, b) the 7" touchscreen was delicate and prone to dropping due to clumsy operators.

Instead, I've bought a plastic case for the RPi4 and printed up a small velcro mount so it can attach to the OTA. I keep the RPi4 hotspot going and so I can log into it with anything else that also can access the wifi network. This includes my phone meaning I already have a decent device for interfacing in the field. This is especially important for Bahtinov mask attachment/removal, focusing (I don't have an auto focuser), polar alignment, and similar. When that's done, I'll shut down the phone connection and log in on the desktop computer inside the house. I can set up new subs and other things with a little nicer interface in this way.

It's working for me so far. In addition, cable management is WAY better now that I removed the screen from the mount setup.

I don't have experience with stellarmate or asiair, but I didn't find the RPi4 + astroberry install and setup process particularly challenging, especially once I did away with the touchscreen aspects. The touchscreen was a real complication that sucked up a lot of time. Without it, the system is a lot easier to work.

Cheers,
Mike