Telescope security system - Forums

Topic starter

Oct 19, 2021 · Edited: Oct 19, 2021

Hi folks,

I am working on a small device aimed at keeping your telescope safe when you leave it shooting unattended.

The device will be battery + USB powered, easily attachable to any part of your rig and will be able to detect movement around it, vibrations of the equipment as well as detect rain. It will be easily programmable through your smartphone and will be able to either notify you of any events on your smartphone (short range) or through the use of a small external remote (long range).

I am building it as a passion project, mostly because I need it myself, but would be super happy to know if such a device would be helpful to the community.

So I wanted to ask if you would find such a device useful, what features would you like it to have, what do you consider a fair price for it?

Looking forward to hearing from you

Helpful Insightful Respectful Engaging Supportive

Rob Calfee

Oct 19, 2021

I'd find it useful! I still wake up in the middle of the night and check on the scopes via a Ring camera.

Well Written Engaging

Sabin Roman

Topic starter

Oct 19, 2021

Same here

I am sleeping on the couch so I can see it out the window

Roy Hagen

Oct 19, 2021

I am interested, and I also have a lot of 12v outlets available
CS

Sabin Roman

Topic starter

Oct 19, 2021

Roy Hagen:
I am interested, and I also have a lot of 12v outlets available
CS

That's a good point, having a aux power input from a 12v power supply would help not having to worry about the battery. Thanks for the feedback!

Steven

Oct 19, 2021 · Edited: Oct 19, 2021

Personally I don't have a huge need for it. I shoot from a balcony, or closed off garden. So it's not something I'm too worried about.

But, here are my thoughts and current "security" methods. Please don't view them as negative, but as constructive criticism. As you are competing against quite a few things and security options that people can already get and use. So playing the "devils advocate" here to ask the "difficult questions"

My telescope is usually in view of a very basic Eufy camera (50 euro), with motion/people detection, so I instantly get a notification if someone comes close to it. And I have the additional bonus that I can do a quick check to see if meridian flips and such went alright because of the video feed. I can also trigger alarms or remotely use a speaker to yell at whoever is nearby. So, that is already a pretty darn good security system for only 50 euro + providing video proof if something does happen.
Also one additional bonus is that the Eufy system (and many others) have sophisticated motion detection where animals don't set it off, only humans. So I can let the dog out in the garden, and not get bombarded with notifications.

Rain for me has never been an issue. I make sure the weather is good enough to never have to worry about that. With the thousands of weather website and apps, you can get a pretty reliable idea of any incoming rain in most areas of the world.
And I have to wonder how often and for how many people this actually becomes a problem? Either way, how sensitive is the sensor? I wonder that if by the time the rain sensor does sense rain, wether or not it is already too late to save your equipment from damage. But, similar systems for home observatories (Lunatico brand for example), to ad to automatic domes, very quickly run towards 500 euro for rain/cloud/light/etc sensor. Obviously, these are "extreme" systems, and I'm sure it could be done cheaper.

If the camera alone wouldn't enough, and I really wanted something extra like a triggered alarm for vibrations, I'd throw on a "motorbike disc lock with alarm" somewhere on my mount. 110dB alarm as soon as it's being tilted, kicked or lifted. Cheap ones of those run you about 20-30 euro. Up to 150 or so for the proper ones. But the proper ones only ad security ratings and more anti theft stuff like hammer and grinder attack.. if you're only looking for the alarm, the cheap ones will do just fine.

Again, please don't see this as negative. This is what you're trying to compete with, so this is what you need to ask yourself and consider.
I could "replicate" a large part of your system with a 50 euro camera. The only thing I'm missing is the rain sensor, which can be prevented by having a good eye on the weather. And I have a lot of additional benefits.
Don't get me wrong, not everyone wants a camera, for example for privacy reasons, and also because of the infrared light.. I personally never had issues with the infrared that the camera uses for it's night vision. But some say they have.. So, there is a possible market for a stand alone device that's able to protect your scope without using infrared.

there has been an earlier topic regarding "Telescope theft"
here you go perhaps some of the posts and comments can be useful for you to help with making your product.

it's also hard to put a price on it, depends on the build cost, features, usability, reliability, build quality, etc, etc, etc.

One thing I would add already to your device, a little speaker and being able to remotely, on your smartphone, press a button to have an alarm play from the device. As an extra security feature.

Best of luck!

Helpful Engaging

Sabin Roman

Topic starter

Oct 19, 2021 · Edited: Oct 19, 2021

Personally I don't have a huge need for it. I shoot from a balcony, or closed off garden. So it's not something I'm too worried about.

But, here are my thoughts and current "security" methods. Please don't view them as negative, but as constructive criticism. As you are competing against quite a few things and security options that people can already get and use. So playing the "devils advocate" here to ask the "difficult questions"

My telescope is usually in view of a very basic Eufy camera (50 euro), with motion/people detection, so I instantly get a notification if someone comes close to it. And I have the additional bonus that I can do a quick check to see if meridian flips and such went alright because of the video feed. I can also trigger alarms or remotely use a speaker to yell at whoever is nearby. So, that is already a pretty darn good security system for only 50 euro + providing video proof if something does happen.
Also one additional bonus is that the Eufy system (and many others) have sophisticated motion detection where animals don't set it off, only humans. So I can let the dog out in the garden, and not get bombarded with notifications.

Rain for me has never been an issue. I make sure the weather is good enough to never have to worry about that. With the thousands of weather website and apps, you can get a pretty reliable idea of any incoming rain in most areas of the world.
And I have to wonder how often and for how many people this actually becomes a problem? Either way, how sensitive is the sensor? I wonder that if by the time the rain sensor does sense rain, wether or not it is already too late to save your equipment from damage. But, similar systems for home observatories (Lunatico brand for example), to ad to automatic domes, very quickly run towards 500 euro for rain/cloud/light/etc sensor. Obviously, these are "extreme" systems, and I'm sure it could be done cheaper.

If the camera alone wouldn't enough, and I really wanted something extra like a triggered alarm for vibrations, I'd throw on a "motorbike disc lock with alarm" somewhere on my mount. 110dB alarm as soon as it's being tilted, kicked or lifted. Cheap ones of those run you about 20-30 euro. Up to 150 or so for the proper ones. But the proper ones only ad security ratings and more anti theft stuff like hammer and grinder attack.. if you're only looking for the alarm, the cheap ones will do just fine.

Again, please don't see this as negative. This is what you're trying to compete with, so this is what you need to ask yourself and consider.
I could "replicate" a large part of your system with a 50 euro camera. The only thing I'm missing is the rain sensor, which can be prevented by having a good eye on the weather. And I have a lot of additional benefits.
Don't get me wrong, not everyone wants a camera, for example for privacy reasons, and also because of the infrared light.. I personally never had issues with the infrared that the camera uses for it's night vision. But some say they have.. So, there is a possible market for a stand alone device that's able to protect your scope without using infrared.

there has been an earlier topic regarding "Telescope theft"
here you go perhaps some of the posts and comments can be useful for you to help with making your product.

it's also hard to put a price on it, depends on the build cost, features, usability, reliability, build quality, etc, etc, etc.

One thing I would add already to your device, a little speaker and being able to remotely, on your smartphone, press a button to have an alarm play from the device. As an extra security feature.

Best of luck!

This is amazing, thanks so much for taking the time to give such detailed feedback! This is exactly why I opened the thread so folks can ask the hard questions and I can see if it actually makes sense to build a production-ready device or if I should just keep it as a pet project.

I will start with the easier part of the question, related to the rain sensor; I live in the Netherlands, and here winters are almost always cloudy and summers have just a few hours of dark skies, so I find myself shooting mostly in spring and autumn. In this time in the Netherlands, you have this type of clouds that come in small batches and some of them contain rain, but just for a few minutes and then clear skies again; so it does happen to me to have to stay up all night just in case it rains for 5 minutes. So the feature is a bit more for folks in these messed-up climates

As for the camera, yes, indeed, tough question, and my major predicament. I do own a Nest Cam for my terrace, which is I basically opened to the building complex garden, but I find myself not being able to rely on it for a few reasons: 1. the alarm of the camera pings once and then stops, so I do not hear it in the night and if I want to get the notification, my phone cannot stay in silence mode, so other things may wake me up; 2. there are people passing close to my telescope causing the camera to trigger - with this device I would disable the proximity sensor and just look for vibrations. And then indeed the folks that don't have cameras.. but that may really be a niche of a niche

But you are right, a camera may be good enough for the majority of folks - especially as it prevents other types of theft as well!

I will test the sensors to see if I can ignore pets! Same for the rain sensor, I am looking into capacitive ones that can detect even a few drops.

As for the lock... I guess that does not protect your laptop staying outside and other accessories around, but it does protect the expensive glass

As for the price, the components for the prototype are not expensive (around 50 euro without casing), but when it comes to making a production-ready device plus all the costs associated with selling/warranty and such, the prices can go up significantly, that's why I was curious how much people think it is a fair price, cause maybe there is no point in producing it at all if the production costs are higher than the actual value the device brings.

After reading your feedback, I think that if you add all of these separate protective mechanisms, you would get a good level of security. Curious if folks would want the device just for the simplicity of sticking a small box on your mount and not having to worry about much else. But than again, if folks wanted a simple life, they would not start astrophotography in the first place

)

Thanks again so much for the great feedback! Got me thinking!

Helpful Respectful Engaging Supportive

karolbe

Oct 20, 2021

Rain for me has never been an issue. I make sure the weather is good enough to never have to worry about that. With the thousands of weather website and apps, you can get a pretty reliable idea of any incoming rain in most areas of the world.

I thought so too, and I live in Central Europe... On one August night both weather radar data and weather forecast were perfect (I check Windsky & RainViewer) it all changed within one hour when I was asleep .There was sudden downpour which damaged my refractor. Rain was banging at the roof so I woke up and immediately went to secure the gear but I was not fast enough. Good news is that camera, the mount, Asiair were not damaged and my refractor had to be cleaned and collimated, but now it is almost like new.

After this I built a simple rain detector based on Arduino and a speaker which is able to detect single rain drops and wake me up, now I feel more confident to leave expensive gear outside :-)

Helpful Engaging Supportive

Steven

Oct 20, 2021 · Edited: Oct 20, 2021

Sabin Roman:
This is amazing, thanks so much for taking the time to give such detailed feedback! This is exactly why I opened the thread so folks can ask the hard questions and I can see if it actually makes sense to build a production-ready device or if I should just keep it as a pet project.

I will start with the easier part of the question, related to the rain sensor; I live in the Netherlands, and here winters are almost always cloudy and summers have just a few hours of dark skies, so I find myself shooting mostly in spring and autumn. In this time in the Netherlands, you have this type of clouds that come in small batches and some of them contain rain, but just for a few minutes and then clear skies again; so it does happen to me to have to stay up all night just in case it rains for 5 minutes. So the feature is a bit more for folks in these messed-up climates

As for the camera, yes, indeed, tough question, and my major predicament. I do own a Nest Cam for my terrace, which is I basically opened to the building complex garden, but I find myself not being able to rely on it for a few reasons: 1. the alarm of the camera pings once and then stops, so I do not hear it in the night and if I want to get the notification, my phone cannot stay in silence mode, so other things may wake me up; 2. there are people passing close to my telescope causing the camera to trigger - with this device I would disable the proximity sensor and just look for vibrations. And then indeed the folks that don't have cameras.. but that may really be a niche of a niche But you are right, a camera may be good enough for the majority of folks - especially as it prevents other types of theft as well!

I will test the sensors to see if I can ignore pets! Same for the rain sensor, I am looking into capacitive ones that can detect even a few drops.

As for the lock... I guess that does not protect your laptop staying outside and other accessories around, but it does protect the expensive glass

As for the price, the components for the prototype are not expensive (around 50 euro without casing), but when it comes to making a production-ready device plus all the costs associated with selling/warranty and such, the prices can go up significantly, that's why I was curious how much people think it is a fair price, cause maybe there is no point in producing it at all if the production costs are higher than the actual value the device brings.

After reading your feedback, I think that if you add all of these separate protective mechanisms, you would get a good level of security. Curious if folks would want the device just for the simplicity of sticking a small box on your mount and not having to worry about much else. But than again, if folks wanted a simple life, they would not start astrophotography in the first place )

Thanks again so much for the great feedback! Got me thinking!

Happy to help and get you thinking.

I'm aware of the weather in The Netherlands, I'm from there too, but living in Germany.
Either way, I understand it could be an issue, but it's not really something for me. I'm not the kind of astrophotographer that tries to sneak in data in between clouds (and possible rain). I tend to really look for a good full night of clear skies. Or a window of at least 2-3 hours to shoot (Where I stay awake and I take the gear inside after those 2-3 hours, part of the hobby I guess)

But I can see how a rain sensor can be useful, and it's obviously better than nothing. But I do wonder about sensitivity. And that those few drop needs to hit the rain sensor exactly for it to work. But by that time my gear could be covered in hundred of drops already. But, again, better than nothing.

I'm not sure about the camera notifications. I do know that I can go to my scope, to tweak something for a minute. And by the time I get back inside and look on my phone, I have 10+ notifications of my movement on there.. so, not sure if I just set it up wrong or something, but I definitely get more than 1 notification. But that might be brand specific.
Going on vibrations could be interesting, but obviously this could need quite some tweaking to make sure a gust of wind, a bat/bird, a train or truck driving nearby, or movement of a nearby bush, etc, etc don't set it off. And that's probably the most important thing, reliable notification of "threats". And I wonder how it exactly would work and at what range it would work. Obviously I'm interested in knowing if a person is touching my gear. But I would be just as interested in a person standing 3-5 meters away from my gear and looking at it.

Interested to see where you'll take the project.

Perhaps it could also be interesting to take this further. Not just focus on a "one trick security device". but create useful products that have the security built in. So people get more use out of it than just as a security device.

For example:

- Add USB power connectors, or 12v DC power output connectors. Most rigs can always use more 12v or USB power outputs.
like a basic pegasus power box.. allowing me to plug in things that could need usb or 12v power. My camera, dew heaters, routers, etc.
Because I don't see a huge personal need to have "just" a security device. But a powerbox, that includes the added bonus of getting security features, that could peak interest.

- Or a wifi router/extender capability (Like a TP-link travel router). Useful for the ASIAIR or for people that image wirelessly.

This would also allow you to perhaps market your product at different price points.
you could sell: (throwing in a random price here as an example)

Security device ; $99 (just the security features, either wired or battery powered options)
Security device router: $149 (security features + wifi router/extender functionality)
Security device power: $199 (security features + USB and 12V powerbox outlets)
Security device Pro: $229 (security features + wifi router + powerbox)

Might be going overboard here + you can't have it being battery powered then. So you might just want to focus on the device on its own first. But it could be interesting to ad more features that are useful to astrophotography to your device, to dip your toe into more markets than just security.

Helpful

Sabin Roman

Topic starter

Oct 20, 2021

But I can see how a rain sensor can be useful, and it's obviously better than nothing. But I do wonder about sensitivity. And that those few drop needs to hit the rain sensor exactly for it to work. But by that time my gear could be covered in hundred of drops already. But, again, better than nothing.

Luckily the rain sensor can be really sensitive, but then that sensitivity may be leading to it triggering just because of air humidity; that's something I will experiment with soon!

Going on vibrations could be interesting, but obviously this could need quite some tweaking to make sure a gust of wind, a bat/bird, a train or truck driving nearby, or movement of a nearby bush, etc, etc don't set it off. And that's probably the most important thing, reliable notification of "threats". And I wonder how it exactly would work and at what range it would work. Obviously I'm interested in knowing if a person is touching my gear. But I would be just as interested in a person standing 3-5 meters away from my gear and looking at it.

Vibration sensors also can be quite sensitive and they are highly configurable, so I think this would be a slightly easier problem than the rain sensor; especially as I could always use a gyroscope/accelerometer if the basic sensors are not good enough.. and than with those you can really zero down types of movement that are associated to a security event. But again, this is the next step, experimenting

Security device ; $99 (just the security features, either wired or battery powered options)
Security device router: $149 (security features + wifi router/extender functionality)
Security device power: $199 (security features + USB and 12V powerbox outlets)
Security device Pro: $229 (security features + wifi router + powerbox)

Amazing

That's a great idea for extending the functionality! As it allows me to think past the initial product, helps with motivation

Also, if I can get the circuit board small enough, maybe it can actually be an addon to Pegasus product for example, as I really love them!

I will get the prototype to work and start checking if the sensors are reliable for what they are supposed to do. Will update the post when I have something working

Sabin Roman

Topic starter

Oct 20, 2021

Rain for me has never been an issue. I make sure the weather is good enough to never have to worry about that. With the thousands of weather website and apps, you can get a pretty reliable idea of any incoming rain in most areas of the world.

I thought so too, and I live in Central Europe... On one August night both weather radar data and weather forecast were perfect (I check Windsky & RainViewer) it all changed within one hour when I was asleep .There was sudden downpour which damaged my refractor. Rain was banging at the roof so I woke up and immediately went to secure the gear but I was not fast enough. Good news is that camera, the mount, Asiair were not damaged and my refractor had to be cleaned and collimated, but now it is almost like new.

After this I built a simple rain detector based on Arduino and a speaker which is able to detect single rain drops and wake me up, now I feel more confident to leave expensive gear outside :-)

Sorry to hear about your refractor, but happy you managed to fix it

It's encouraging to see that after the event you went to actually build something like this that ended up helping since then!

Wanted to ask, I guess you are using a copper wire rain sensor? How long does it last, is the electrolysis and oxidation affecting it? I know if you keep these sensors outside all the time they don't last much, but what if you only put them out when you use your scope?

Respectful Engaging Supportive

Related discussions

DIY Power using the EGO tool battery

Here is a partial posting from an image posting I posted recently regarding a grab and go imaging rig. The hope is to reach a wider number of potentially interested people. I did search the site and even CN to see if there was anything like this and ...

Battery power solutions relevant to portable telescope monitoring device design.

Jul 2, 2023

Non-Guided Exposure Time / Adjustments

Hi, How long of an exposure is safe when shooting unguided? I’m using an HEQ5. Also, how do you go about manual adjustments if you’re visibly drifting to keep your subject in frame? (I know, I need a guide scope/system—but until I have one… Tha...

Battery-powered security device irrelevant to exposure time or manual tracking adjustments.

May 3, 2020

Ideas for handling different setups - how do you deal with your equipment

Hi all of you, over the last three or four years, since I began to do astro photography. I developed a method of handling my equipment. This works for me. But before I write some lines about it, I want to explain the reason for this thread. Astro pho...

Equipment handling methods applicable to telescope rig protection strategies.

Aug 27, 2023