Pixinsight on a Virtual Machine? - Forums

Topic starter

Jan 18, 2025 · Edited: Jan 18, 2025

Hi Everyone,

I recently got the idea to try to run PI on a virtual machine.

I really don’t have an issue with the time that it takes to run WBPP in Windows since I am working with smallish 18mb files (ASI533MC-P). It might take a couple of hours to pre-process 350-400 subs which really doesn’t bother me too much. I am running an older Windows 11 machine. Besides a slow WBPP, PI runs nicely for post processing.

My old System:
Windows 11 Pro OS
Ryzen 2700X cpu (8 cores/16 thread)
Gigabyte main board B450M DS3H
64GB DDR4 3200mhz ram memory
2 TB M.2 NVME (Gen 3)
Nvidia GeforceGTX 1660 Ti (Cuda enabled)

I have been reading how Pixinsight runs much better on Linux than Windows and decided to try a virtual machine just to play around. I tried several vm’s (Hyper V, VMWare Player, and VirtualBox). I found that installing the vm software and installing Ubuntu (22.04 is the only version that I have tried) on the vm was pretty straightforward. I found the Ubuntu GUI nice, but very unfamiliar.
With the basic installation done, I then ran into the weeds. The only vm that I was able to set up a shared folder (between the Windows OS and the vm Ubuntu) was VirtualBox. I set it up with 32MB memory, 8 logical cpu cores, and 25GB disk space.
After struggling to get the shared folder working, I tried to install PI (Linux version) and failed (so far).
I also tried WSL and found it very easy to initially set up, working from the command line (terminal) was very frustrating since I had no idea what I was entering.

Not only do I not have the comfort level to understand what commands I was entering, many of the tutorials I found online failed with some sort of error.

With my current vm (VirtualBox), I tried following instructions that I found in Google including a PI Forum post where Juan listed the terminal commands for installating PI. https://www.pixinsight.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-install-pixinsight-on-linux.14324/
When I tried to follow the code, I got “illegal instruction” at the line “sudo ./installer”.

It is both frustrating and fun trying to figure this out, but after a while, I started thinking it this hill is worth climbing?

Does anyone here have any experience with setting up Pixinsight on a vm? If so, did the performance (time) benefit outweigh the setup experience?

Of course, in my case, I have absolutely no experience with Ubuntu, but if the performance benefit is significant (running PI in a vm), I will keep plugging away.

Thanks for any feedback or experience you can share!

Helpful Engaging

Tony Gondola

Frequent contributor

Jan 18, 2025

That's pretty much been my experience whenever I touch the Linux world. I have an old IMac that is no longer supported by Apple that I just wanted to use for streaming. Linux seemed like a great solution but I had pretty much the same experience. Distro after distro failed and nothing ever worked as advertised. A Linux expert I am sure could have done it but most of us are not that. I finally used a hacked bit of software that let me install as reasonably modern Mac OS but it took weeks messing around with Linux before I got there.

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 18, 2025

Tony Gondola:
That's pretty much been my experience whenever I touch the Linux world. I have an old IMac that is no longer supported by Apple that I just wanted to use for streaming. Linux seemed like a great solution but I had pretty much the same experience. Distro after distro failed and nothing ever worked as advertised. A Linux expert I am sure could have done it but most of us are not that. I finally used a hacked bit of software that let me install as reasonably modern Mac OS but it took weeks messing around with Linux before I got there.

I tried dabbling with the Mac OS too and didn't do well there either.
I am very comfortable with Windows, but no expert, and I go back to the Dos 5 days.

So far, I am mostly losing this effort. I have really learned a lot more about vm's and WSL, and have had fun with it. I am hoping to hear from someone that either has tried a vm in windows to run a Linux guest maching running PI, or is currently using one.

If anyone responds that has tried this and saw little or no time benifit, I will quit while I am not ahead and enjoy what learnings I have aquired. But, if someone responds and has seen nice benifits from running a Linux based PI on a vm, I will keep plugging away at it.

Thanks for commenting Tony!

Stephen Jones

Jan 18, 2025 · Edited: Jan 18, 2025

If you run into trouble with the commands you can use free chatgtp. Should clear things up a little. Give it a try. I prefer a dual boot and Ubuntu on its own hdd.

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 18, 2025 · Edited: Jan 18, 2025

Stephen Jones:
If you run into trouble with the commands you can use free chatgtp. Should clear things up a little. Give it a try. I prefer a dual boot and Ubuntu on its own hdd.

Hi Stephen,

I really enjoy ChatGPT and have tried it after not having success with Google/YouTube and have run into the same issues with syntax errors. Some success, but all it takes is one error and the process fails.
Since you use a dual boot, I assume that you do enjoy a nice speed increase in WBPP. Unfortunately, I probably will run into the same setup (terminal errors) issues that I am having with the vm. By the way, what version of Ubuntu are you using on the dual boot?
I am not giving up yet, but just stumped for now. Many thanks for commenting! I really appreciate the feedback!

Respectful Supportive

dswtan

Jan 18, 2025 · Edited: Jan 18, 2025

Jim Raskett:
Does anyone here have any experience with setting up Pixinsight on a vm? If so, did the performance (time) benefit outweigh the setup experience?

I recall I successfully installed PI in WSL on Win11 in the last year or two, I think using the Ubuntu available in the MS appstore. I also tried WSL directly and VirtualBox. I even managed to get the CUDA tensorflow going I think. But it was for amusement only, not production. I'm not aware of anyone doing this to use it as their main environment, except maybe one post on the PI forurms somewhere back then (which is what triggered me to try).

As you found, interchange between the Windows and Linux filesystems was not seamless, and there were glitches in the user interface and experience. It was not reliable and clunky to operate. It was satisfying to do as an experiment only. I certainly don't recommend it based on your goals (better performance), and I admire your sense of adventure if you don't know much about Unix. I have some prior knowledge, though not expert these days.

I currently use dual PixInsight systems in parallel (mostly for geekiness reasons), one Ubuntu and one Windows. The underlying hardware is different, so I can't make a reasonable performance comparison. The Ubuntu system ran Kubuntu for a while (as strongly recommended by the PI developers) but it did not work well for me (I had both system and app glitches) and I reverted to Ubuntu and an older version. That is now stable.

Windows works reasonably reliably for me. The Unix preferences of the developers I'm sure are sincere, but my Linux install is about as reliable and (generally) performant as my Windows install -- excluding hardware differences, as far as I can tell. The benchmarks may be faster, but I'm comparing overall. The VM approach was not effective in my experience.

I find reliability issues across all the main platforms -- Windows, Linux, Mac (I don't use Macs for astro but for other purposes). Those that advocate for one or the other have their own reasons (no need to get into those wars here). But in actively using all these platforms, I don't have an obvious favorite in terms of performance and reliability. YMMV.

PS. I also used dual boot for a long while, but that got old for me and is now why I have the two separate systems. I was always finding I needed to be in the "other" environment. File transfer was not always trivial between the two. The system date got screwed up between boots. Just really irritating stuff.

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dkamen

Jan 18, 2025 · Edited: Jan 18, 2025

First of all, installing Pixinsight on Linux is rather trivial. You simply run the installer command as root and then it is /opt/PixInsight/bin/PixInsight.sh. If you don't understand even one thing in the previous sentence, don't do it. Or do it, but prepare to be very frustrated.

Second and most important, even if Pixinsight is faster on Linux, putting it in a VM that is hosted by Windows is guaranteed not to benefit from this, because a VM is basically a Windows application emulating a computer that runs Linux. Which means it will be slower than running PI natively, either on Windows or on Linux. VMs are used for other purposes, not speed. At best (if the host OS gives the VM OS direct access to the hardware), the overhead of emulation will be minimized but not zero. Far from it.

Well Written Helpful Insightful Concise

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 18, 2025

Jim Raskett:
Does anyone here have any experience with setting up Pixinsight on a vm? If so, did the performance (time) benefit outweigh the setup experience?

I recall I successfully installed PI in WSL on Win11 in the last year or two, I think using the Ubuntu available in the MS appstore. I also tried WSL directly and VirtualBox. I even managed to get the CUDA tensorflow going I think. But it was for amusement only, not production. I'm not aware of anyone doing this to use it as their main environment, except maybe one post on the PI forurms somewhere back then (which is what triggered me to try).

As you found, interchange between the Windows and Linux filesystems was not seamless, and there were glitches in the user interface and experience. It was not reliable and clunky to operate. It was satisfying to do as an experiment only. I certainly don't recommend it based on your goals (better performance), and I admire your sense of adventure if you don't know much about Unix. I have some prior knowledge, though not expert these days.

I currently use dual PixInsight systems in parallel (mostly for geekiness reasons), one Ubuntu and one Windows. The underlying hardware is different, so I can't make a reasonable performance comparison. The Ubuntu system ran Kubuntu for a while (as strongly recommended by the PI developers) but it did not work well for me (I had both system and app glitches) and I reverted to Ubuntu and an older version. That is now stable.

Windows works reasonably reliably for me. The Unix preferences of the developers I'm sure are sincere, but my Linux install is about as reliable and (generally) performant as my Windows install -- excluding hardware differences, as far as I can tell. The benchmarks may be faster, but I'm comparing overall. The VM approach was not effective in my experience.

I find reliability issues across all the main platforms -- Windows, Linux, Mac (I don't use Macs for astro but for other purposes). Those that advocate for one or the other have their own reasons (no need to get into those wars here). But in actively using all these platforms, I don't have an obvious favorite in terms of performance and reliability. YMMV.

PS. I also used dual boot for a long while, but that got old for me and is now why I have the two separate systems. I was always finding I needed to be in the "other" environment. File transfer was not always trivial between the two. The system date got screwed up between boots. Just really irritating stuff.

Many thanks for sharing your experience.
Unlike you, I have no past experience with Linux and I definately would think that a vm would be too slow for PI.
It is fun messing around with, but I believe that I will stick to PI on my Windows machine.
Thanks for all of the information!

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 18, 2025

First of all, installing Pixinsight on Linux is rather trivial. You simply run the installer command as root and then it is /opt/PixInsight/bin/PixInsight.sh. If you don't understand even one thing in the previous sentence, don't do it. Or do it, but prepare to be very frustrated.

Second and most important, even if Pixinsight is faster on Linux, putting it in a VM that is hosted by Windows is guaranteed not to benefit from this, because a VM is basically a Windows application emulating a computer that runs Linux. Which means it will be slower than running PI natively, either on Windows or on Linux. VMs are used for other purposes, not speed. At best (if the host OS gives the VM OS direct access to the hardware), the overhead of emulation will be minimized but not zero. Far from it.

Thanks for the reality check!
Actually, it has become just a matter of trying to make it work. After reading your comments, I have decided to punt on this one. I have seen a few versions of Linux and I did have fun with it for awhile though. Thanks again dkamen!

Stephen Jones

Jan 18, 2025

I have Ubuntu 22 and its a dual boot. Loaded it up on a separate 500Gb ssd. I have a Linux server with old hdds as a media centre and VPN also that I play with so a tad of experience. In my opinion PI does run better. I dont use a VM as it just relies on windows resources. Best idea if you want to run a version is a separate hdd. For a learner it quite easy to install. Suggest trying a live usb and get to know the system for a while. If you have one hdd its a simple install when you add another hdd into your PC. If you have more than one hdd disconnect them (except windows hdd) so there is no confusion when doing an install. Its fun to use.

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 19, 2025

Stephen Jones:
I have Ubuntu 22 and its a dual boot. Loaded it up on a separate 500Gb ssd. I have a Linux server with old hdds as a media centre and VPN also that I play with so a tad of experience. In my opinion PI does run better. I dont use a VM as it just relies on windows resources. Best idea if you want to run a version is a separate hdd. For a learner it quite easy to install. Suggest trying a live usb and get to know the system for a while. If you have one hdd its a simple install when you add another hdd into your PC. If you have more than one hdd disconnect them (except windows hdd) so there is no confusion when doing an install. Its fun to use.

A dual boot definitely sounds like the right way to go with this.
For now, I will play around with the Ubuntu 22 vm and try to learn my way around a bit.
Right now I am running the m.2 boot drive with two 4TB spinning hdd’s and a sata ssd all which are >50% cap.
I’ll come up with something.
Many thanks Stephen!

Darryl Ackerman

Jan 19, 2025

I second dual booting your system. That's what I did. Running Linux or any other OS on top of Windows is counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish. Windows is going to hog tons of memory and CPU from the VM. That's why commercial VM host machines mainly run Linux, then you run your Windows VM's on that. Sure, Hyper-V is used, the poor man's virtualization, but companies like VMware have most of the market, that's mainly what I've seen since the inception of virtualization in my career, and that runs on a RedHat Linux kernel.

So, it's pretty easy to dual boot your system…

Assuming Windows is already installed, I added another 1tb NVMe and booted up the ubuntu install usb drive and installed it on the new drive, it can be a cheap one, Linux is not as demanding as Windows. Ubuntu detects Windows and doesn't mess with it. When your system boots, you'll get the Linux grub boot menu, and you can select the OS you want to run at that time.

If you no longer want to use Ubuntu, all you have to do is go into the system BIOS and select the Windows drive as the boot drive, remove, reformat, throw it in the trash, or whatever you want with the Ubuntu drive, your system is back the way it was.

Helpful Supportive

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 22, 2025 · Edited: Jan 22, 2025

Darryl Ackerman:
I second dual booting your system. That's what I did. Running Linux or any other OS on top of Windows is counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish. Windows is going to hog tons of memory and CPU from the VM. That's why commercial VM host machines mainly run Linux, then you run your Windows VM's on that. Sure, Hyper-V is used, the poor man's virtualization, but companies like VMware have most of the market, that's mainly what I've seen since the inception of virtualization in my career, and that runs on a RedHat Linux kernel.

So, it's pretty easy to dual boot your system...

Assuming Windows is already installed, I added another 1tb NVMe and booted up the ubuntu install usb drive and installed it on the new drive, it can be a cheap one, Linux is not as demanding as Windows. Ubuntu detects Windows and doesn't mess with it. When your system boots, you'll get the Linux grub boot menu, and you can select the OS you want to run at that time.

If you no longer want to use Ubuntu, all you have to do is go into the system BIOS and select the Windows drive as the boot drive, remove, reformat, throw it in the trash, or whatever you want with the Ubuntu drive, your system is back the way it was.

Hi Darryl and thanks for your great information! Sorry for the delayed response.

I have been playing around with my old (originally a win7 Dell Latitude) imaging laptop. It’s a legacy bios system and that might have caused some issues and it’s been running win10 pro for years.
Installed a fresh win10 pro and then installed Ubuntu. Ran fine, but would only boot into Ubuntu (no grub boot menu. I fought with this and re-installed several times. tried many “fixes” on the web including chatgpt, and I finally found a downloadably Boot Repair iso that did the trick and repaired grub. Worked great and was no issue sharing files between windows snd Ubuntu.
I replaced the ssd with an old hdd and tried again. Still didn’t see the grub menu, but the Boot Repair ISO got everything working well.
Definitely see why you installed on a second drive!
I am thinking about dual booting my processing desktop (win11 pro) and installing PI in Ubuntu, but I am hesitant. I don’t don’t have any free sata ports on my mobo (running a nvme, sata ssd, and two hdd’s already, so I would have to add the Ubuntu os to the window nvme.
If I get in the right mood, I just might give it a shot and if I do, I will update this thread.

Just curious if you had any issues with the grub menu?

Thank you and everyone else who responded for your experience and help!
I surely have learned a lot!

Helpful Respectful Supportive

Darryl Ackerman

Jan 23, 2025 · Edited: Jan 23, 2025

Jim Raskett:
Darryl Ackerman:
I second dual booting your system. That's what I did. Running Linux or any other OS on top of Windows is counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish. Windows is going to hog tons of memory and CPU from the VM. That's why commercial VM host machines mainly run Linux, then you run your Windows VM's on that. Sure, Hyper-V is used, the poor man's virtualization, but companies like VMware have most of the market, that's mainly what I've seen since the inception of virtualization in my career, and that runs on a RedHat Linux kernel.

So, it's pretty easy to dual boot your system...

Assuming Windows is already installed, I added another 1tb NVMe and booted up the ubuntu install usb drive and installed it on the new drive, it can be a cheap one, Linux is not as demanding as Windows. Ubuntu detects Windows and doesn't mess with it. When your system boots, you'll get the Linux grub boot menu, and you can select the OS you want to run at that time.

If you no longer want to use Ubuntu, all you have to do is go into the system BIOS and select the Windows drive as the boot drive, remove, reformat, throw it in the trash, or whatever you want with the Ubuntu drive, your system is back the way it was.

Hi Darryl and thanks for your great information! Sorry for the delayed response.

I have been playing around with my old (originally a win7 Dell Latitude) imaging laptop. It’s a legacy bios system and that might have caused some issues and it’s been running win10 pro for years.
Installed a fresh win10 pro and then installed Ubuntu. Ran fine, but would only boot into Ubuntu (no grub boot menu. I fought with this and re-installed several times. tried many “fixes” on the web including chatgpt, and I finally found a downloadably Boot Repair iso that did the trick and repaired grub. Worked great and was no issue sharing files between windows snd Ubuntu.
I replaced the ssd with an old hdd and tried again. Still didn’t see the grub menu, but the Boot Repair ISO got everything working well.
Definitely see why you installed on a second drive!
I am thinking about dual booting my processing desktop (win11 pro) and installing PI in Ubuntu, but I am hesitant. I don’t don’t have any free sata ports on my mobo (running a nvme, sata ssd, and two hdd’s already, so I would have to add the Ubuntu os to the window nvme.
If I get in the right mood, I just might give it a shot and if I do, I will update this thread.

Just curious if you had any issues with the grub menu?

Thank you and everyone else who responded for your experience and help!
I surely have learned a lot!

I don't remember exactly, it's been a few years, but I do remember now a similar issue. I downloaded the Grub Customizer and put a boot delay of 30 seconds and choose to boot windows by default. This way if I walk away while it's rebooting it goes straight to windows after the delay. You can install it using sudo apt install grub-customizer.

Other than that, I have no issues, but I do have separate drives and if you dual boot off the same drive removing Ubuntu may not be as easy.

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 23, 2025

Darryl Ackerman:
Jim Raskett:
Darryl Ackerman:
I second dual booting your system. That's what I did. Running Linux or any other OS on top of Windows is counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish. Windows is going to hog tons of memory and CPU from the VM. That's why commercial VM host machines mainly run Linux, then you run your Windows VM's on that. Sure, Hyper-V is used, the poor man's virtualization, but companies like VMware have most of the market, that's mainly what I've seen since the inception of virtualization in my career, and that runs on a RedHat Linux kernel.

So, it's pretty easy to dual boot your system...

Assuming Windows is already installed, I added another 1tb NVMe and booted up the ubuntu install usb drive and installed it on the new drive, it can be a cheap one, Linux is not as demanding as Windows. Ubuntu detects Windows and doesn't mess with it. When your system boots, you'll get the Linux grub boot menu, and you can select the OS you want to run at that time.

If you no longer want to use Ubuntu, all you have to do is go into the system BIOS and select the Windows drive as the boot drive, remove, reformat, throw it in the trash, or whatever you want with the Ubuntu drive, your system is back the way it was.

Hi Darryl and thanks for your great information! Sorry for the delayed response.

I have been playing around with my old (originally a win7 Dell Latitude) imaging laptop. It’s a legacy bios system and that might have caused some issues and it’s been running win10 pro for years.
Installed a fresh win10 pro and then installed Ubuntu. Ran fine, but would only boot into Ubuntu (no grub boot menu. I fought with this and re-installed several times. tried many “fixes” on the web including chatgpt, and I finally found a downloadably Boot Repair iso that did the trick and repaired grub. Worked great and was no issue sharing files between windows snd Ubuntu.
I replaced the ssd with an old hdd and tried again. Still didn’t see the grub menu, but the Boot Repair ISO got everything working well.
Definitely see why you installed on a second drive!
I am thinking about dual booting my processing desktop (win11 pro) and installing PI in Ubuntu, but I am hesitant. I don’t don’t have any free sata ports on my mobo (running a nvme, sata ssd, and two hdd’s already, so I would have to add the Ubuntu os to the window nvme.
If I get in the right mood, I just might give it a shot and if I do, I will update this thread.

Just curious if you had any issues with the grub menu?

Thank you and everyone else who responded for your experience and help!
I surely have learned a lot!

I don't remember exactly, it's been a few years, but I do remember now a similar issue. I downloaded the Grub Customizer and put a boot delay of 30 seconds and choose to boot windows by default. This way if I walk away while it's rebooting it goes straight to windows after the delay. You can install it using sudo apt install grub-customizer.

Other than that, I have no issues, but I do have separate drives and if you dual boot off the same drive removing Ubuntu may not be as easy.

Thanks Darryl for all of the information.
The Grub Customizer looks like a really nice utility and I will check it out.

I will open up my desktop later and check port availability. I think that I do have a spare sata port, but it is obscured by the GPU.
My main concern is screwing up Windows on my processing pc (won't boot). From what I understand, GRUB takes over both the Windows and Ubuntu boot process and Windows may not boot even after removing the drive (or deleting the partition). My processing desktop is also occaisionally (rarely) used by my wife, and that is my main concern if it becomes unbootable. I know that there are boot repair options and so far I have installed dual boot on three drives (replaced them in my test laptop). The first is a ssd and the old pc blazes with new copies of both operating systems. The other two are spinning drives and even with new os's installed, they are sluggish on my +14 year old laptop (2-core i5, 8GB DDR3 ram).
Another thing that is odd is that on the ssd dual boot installation, is that Ubuntu let me mount the Windows C drive which is tremendously advantageous. The other two installations (on the spinning drives) will not mount the Windows C drive, so any file transfer between the two operating systems must be done on usb (or another method that I have not explored yet).
Another difference between the old laptop and the desktop is that I am running legacy bios on the laptop and uefi on the desktop.

All in all, I have had a lot of fun with this and have learning a few things about Ubuntu. Hopefully, I will take the step soon on my desktop (while this is all fresh).

Again, thanks for all of your help!

dkamen

Jan 23, 2025

If you have a spare SSD you can install Ubuntu and PI on a bootable thumbdrive and use the spare SSD for your user data. All you would have to do then is insert the thumb drive before power on and choose it as the boot device in the BIOS menu.

That leaves your main bootloader and Windows in general completely untouched. If you set the boot order to USB first, HDD second, all you would have to to is plug the thumb drive when you need Linux.

A more relaxed variation is to use a partition instead of a dedicated SSD. It is simpler because you are not touching the bootloader but of course there is a tiny risk of ruining your partition table if you are not careful when making the change.

You can also use *just* the thumb drive (apps and data) but performance during the integration will suffer, not to mention it is guaranteed to fail after the first few TBs worth of writes.

Helpful

Jim Raskett

Topic starter

Jan 23, 2025 · Edited: Jan 23, 2025

If you have a spare SSD you can install Ubuntu and PI on a bootable thumbdrive and use the spare SSD for your user data. All you would have to do then is insert the thumb drive before power on and choose it as the boot device in the BIOS menu.

That leaves your main bootloader and Windows in general completely untouched. If you set the boot order to USB first, HDD second, all you would have to to is plug the thumb drive when you need Linux.

A more relaxed variation is to use a partition instead of a dedicated SSD. It is simpler because you are not touching the bootloader but of course there is a tiny risk of ruining your partition table if you are not careful when making the change.

You can also use *just* the thumb drive (apps and data) but performance during the integration will suffer, not to mention it is guaranteed to fail after the first few TBs worth of writes.

Sounds like a great way to get around messing with the Windows boot loader.

Does the bootable Ubuntu/PI run faster than the Windows/PI?
Do you use swap files in PI? Where do you create them, the xtra ssd for the user data?
Much appreciate the information!