Sensor non-uniformity with IMX571 mono in S and H?

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AstRobert avatar
Hello,

I just got my brand new IMX571 Mono from Touptek as well as LRGBSHO Filters.

I made a series of test flats and figured that there is a strange pattern (streaks from top-left to bottom-right only in S and H that does not rotate upon rotating the flatpanel, the whole image train or the filter itselfe. So it seems to be inherent to the camera.

Apperantly sensor non-uniformity can be specific to certain wavelengths which would explain it not showing up in other filters but in the rather closely set S and H.

I did not post this in the specific equipment forum as I would like to hear a general opinion on this issue and if it is something that I should get a replacement for or of it is absolutely normal and will fix itselfe with flats and not infringe on image quality?

Cheers Robert
RGB
SHO
D. Jung avatar
My first thought was the filter, which usually have non uniformities. But if you say it's not changing when rotating, maybe you are seeing an effect called etaloning (thin film reflection). Usually happens when you use sensors with lasers, but maybe your filter is so narrow band that it starts showing? 

https://andor.oxinst.com/learning/view/article/optical-etaloning-in-charge-coupled-devices
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Tony Gondola avatar
My best advice is to stop looking at your flats and start looking at your images.
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andrea tasselli avatar
As Tony said, do not fret about it. That is what flat frames are for.
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John Hayes avatar
I see non uniformity in my narrow band flats with my IMX455 but flats remove it perfectly.   This stuff is simply FPN caused by PRNU, which is what flats correct. If you properly calibrate your data, none of this should print through into your images.  So, how do your calibrated images look?

John
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AstRobert avatar
Thanks for your replies I hoped that calibration should be solving it.

Of course the outcome is what counts but since this is a new camera I will have to wait the obligatory 4 weeks for even a single clear night ;-)
But today I might get some data and see how it looks like.
Tony Gondola avatar
Good luck, it's always exciting!
patrice_so avatar
Hi here. 

Just following. I have the same camera and filters incoming next week. 

Did you try to modulate the source lighting ? My LED panel creates some funny banding at some voltages. This issue is under control at the moment, as I shoot 5s flats for my ASI294MC pro. 

In any case : I would for a first image to get a clear idea of the issue severity.  

Cheers, 

Patrice
[deleted]
One of my cameras had similar issues that differed from brighter/dimmer targets and/or one filter to another.

The sensor and window appeared very clean under examination in normal diffuse daylight, but at night when I illuminated it with a very bright point source (a cavers' LED headlamp from some feet away), a subtle leftover cleaning smear across the sensor became more obvious.

For what it's worth, when a sensor needs to be cleaned beyond what can be blown off, I've had good success with,

1. A newly unwrapped microfiber cloth with very light contact (i.e., I loosely fold the cloth for contact without direct finger pressure) after fogging the sensor with one's breath; or, for a more stubborn contaminant,

2. Use of a Pec Pad optical wipe (by Photosol Inc.; Amazon.com) on which one light spray of ROR optical cleaning solution (by V-Max Products; Amazon.com). This has been 100% successful for both sensor and glass cleaning over the years.  It leaves no residue and does not attack metallic coatings. 

These methods work fine with filters.

As an aside, living in the humid tropics, fungus on lens surfaces can become a problem. Many otherwise fine lenses are sold at steep discounts on resale sites online due to internal fungus. These can be disassembled and restored to a like new condition with a hydrogen peroxide wash, and there are a number of how-to videos on YouTube detailing exactly how to properly disassemble and restore particular lenses this way. Restoring and reselling some lenses can pay for your astro hobby!
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AstRobert avatar
Good damned.. just wrote up a whole post, page refreshed now its gone so here the short version.

1. Calibrated images do not show pattern anymore -> Wuhuuuu 🥳
2. Calibrated images do show absolutely terrible rings. 😒

It was almost full moon and i wonder if that is moonlight that somewho snuck under the flat panel. For the RGB the panel was very dim so the moonlight would have a higher impact on those i suppose?

I made successful flats with another panel already once but not with this one. Will of course retake the flats asap in a darker environment.

Cheers,
Robert

Kyle Goodwin avatar
What kind of scope is it?  That looks like a baffle light leak or something to me more than "contaminated" flats, but maybe not.
V avatar
AstRobert:
Hello,

I just got my brand new IMX571 Mono from Touptek as well as LRGBSHO Filters.

I made a series of test flats and figured that there is a strange pattern (streaks from top-left to bottom-right only in S and H that does not rotate upon rotating the flatpanel, the whole image train or the filter itselfe. So it seems to be inherent to the camera.

Apperantly sensor non-uniformity can be specific to certain wavelengths which would explain it not showing up in other filters but in the rather closely set S and H.

I did not post this in the specific equipment forum as I would like to hear a general opinion on this issue and if it is something that I should get a replacement for or of it is absolutely normal and will fix itselfe with flats and not infringe on image quality?

Cheers Robert
RGB
SHO

This looks almost identical to the problem I experienced with a flat I took last month after installing a replacement AR window on my 2400.

I ordered a new window and discovered that the glass was covered with what had to be thousands of tiny scratches that go across one axis. I ordered another to remedy this, and discovered that the same scratches were present on the new window.

I figured it was only a matter of time before something similar appears. Shine your phone flashlight on the camera's glass and look into the reflections.
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AstRobert avatar
Kyle Goodwin:
What kind of scope is it?  That looks like a baffle light leak or something to me more than "contaminated" flats, but maybe not.

*** It is a 127mm Triplet refractor. I retook flats indoors and the result is way better but there are still those rings on it. I also removed the lens hood but still the same rings.

Kyle Goodwin avatar
It’s very strange there’s actually several concentric rings it seems. I don’t see the rings in the flats. Can you try taking a set of “lights” indoors of a wall or something that’s relatively flat, but not your flat light source and then calibrate those with your flats and see what you get?
Lutz Kirchner avatar
What exact filters do you use (brand, size, mounted or unmounted)? I recently stumbled upon a thread where it was assumed that some mounted filters tend to create such circular reflections. I have a ZWO ASI 2600 MM (same sensor) and use it with 36 mm unmounted filters with no such problems.
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John Hayes avatar
AstRobert:
Good damned.. just wrote up a whole post, page refreshed now its gone so here the short version.

1. Calibrated images do not show pattern anymore -> Wuhuuuu 🥳
2. Calibrated images do show absolutely terrible rings. 😒

It was almost full moon and i wonder if that is moonlight that somewho snuck under the flat panel. For the RGB the panel was very dim so the moonlight would have a higher impact on those i suppose?

I made successful flats with another panel already once but not with this one. Will of course retake the flats asap in a darker environment.

Cheers,
Robert


Robert,
You have some serious additive stray light issues that need to be fixed before image calibration will work properly.

John