Best max. 400mm scope at the moment - Forums

Hi guys,I just sold my FRA300 from Askar because I wasn't too happy with it. There was chromatic aberration (CA), and the stars in the outer third of the field were elongated and too large.
So, I’m looking for a new scope in that range. I’m thinking of something with a focal length around 300-400mm, and it should also be reasonably fast, ideally at least f/5. Weight isn’t an issue, but a lighter scope would be great. I’d also prefer a scope that’s ready to use in just a few minutes, so something like the Epsilon 130 wouldn’t be suitable.
There should also be some experience and reviews available for the scope. For example, the new FCT-65 by Tak looks good, but it’s still very new, and there aren't many pictures or reviews available online. Additionally, the star shapes should be sharp and small. The FSQ85 is a nice scope, but with the "inverse lighthouse beam effect," the stars don’t look so great.
I was considering the new SQA85 by Askar, but since it's a new optic, there are no pictures or reviews available yet.
Do you have any ideas?
Best regards,
Brian

If someone just told me to go get a scope in that range and money was not an issue, I probably would not shop much and would just go get the Red Cat 71, since moving to a normal focuser, they seem great. Backspacing is less of an issue because its Petzval, no need for an additional reducer/flattener. Seem to have amazing glass. I believe its 350mm

I cant see the difference between a good WO vs a TAK, I am not an expert, but I do pixel peel a lot, The big difference is having to mortgage your house to get the TAK, ahaha

Clayton Ostler:
If someone just told me to go get a scope in that range and money was not an issue, I probably would not shop much and would just go get the Red Cat 71, since moving to a normal focuser, they seem great. Backspacing is less of an issue because its Petzval, no need for an additional reducer/flattener. Seem to have amazing glass. I believe its 350mm

Thanks for your answer.

Yes, the 71 Cat looks interesting. Unfortunately, it's not available as a SpaceCat. That would be so cool!
I'm also looking at the Pleiades 68. It's fast and has a focal length just under 300mm.
Most of the reviews are good, but there are also some really bad ones...

I have a Stellarvue 70t, with a reduced focal length (flattener reducer purchased with the scope) of 360 mm.. and I really like it. The glass is amazing in this little scope. Although this model is discontinued there are a lot of them in circulation. If you can find one of these I can highly recommend it. It was a floor model and cost me about $1100 CAD plus taxes, about 5 years ago.

I appreciate the sharpness of the images that I'm able to generate from this scope.

https://www.astrobin.com/kmg9h8/C/

Stellarvue now makes an 80t with an fl of 480 mm, which may be too much for your purposes.
Good Luck
Ian

Edit - here is a set of reviews and comments on this scope.
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/879452-dpac-of-a-stellarvue-sv70t/

Love my SW Esprit 80mm f/5. Very sharp, good focuser. Haven't noticed any CA. Here are a couple recent images I shot with it:

The Andromeda Galaxy

The Whole Elephant (IC 1396, SHO)

Dave Ek:
Love my SW Esprit 80mm f/5. Very sharp, good focuser. Haven't noticed any CA. Here are a couple recent images I shot with it:

The Andromeda Galaxy

The Whole Elephant (IC 1396, SHO)

I can also vouch for the SW Esprit line.. I have a 120mm, its a workhorse for me.
Ian

Clayton Ostler:
I probably would not shop much and would just go get the Red Cat 71,

I have a RedCat 71 WIFD as a secondary scope with my CDK 14 and although I have not had enough time with it to get a final image yet (should be within the month), it has been giving me nice images with good stars so far.. Using a ZWO 2600 with it. Pretty fast at 4.9 as well...

Ian Dixon:
Dave Ek:
Love my SW Esprit 80mm f/5. Very sharp, good focuser. Haven't noticed any CA. Here are a couple recent images I shot with it:

The Andromeda Galaxy

The Whole Elephant (IC 1396, SHO)

I can also vouch for the SW Esprit line.. I have a 120mm, its a workhorse for me.
Ian

I also have the Esprit 100. "Workhorse" is an apt description for it, as well.

Another topic that shows it is subjective, you sold your FRA300, while i have FRA400 and it could be worse than yours, but i will not or will never give it up, i only tested twice with both tests were out of focus, but when i zoomed in the image i saw all stars are rounded shape even out of space all the way to the corners or edges, that was enough sign for me to keep it for future try which i am still waiting the right moment, who knows.

I do have another scopes also, i am sure they are all good as long i know how to set up without errors, such as 90mm APO triplet, 106mm APO triplet, two 60mm doublet, and reflectors, i won't hesitate to buy Askar again, the only drawback for me towards WO is their prices, for example i buy 90mm from 3rd party brand with FPL-53 or FCD100 or FPL55 for about $1300-1600, while their new 90 triplet is above $2k, if i keep buy each scope from them i will end up like spending $2000 as difference to other companies not known, i mean i would go with Esprit 100 before i can think about WO 90, even their 71 Petzval Redcat whatever is more expensive than my FRA400 which i bought it with the reducer too for less than $1300, i can't imagine the difference with one scope only.

I wish to buy high end scopes such as AP or Tak and such, in fact i wanted to buy Stellarvue, but they went with improved versions so they increased the prices since their old versions, in this time of life for me i don't have time or room for premium gear and prices, i might buy one item as prime, but not 10 items, and because i went with cheaper i was able to buy more than 10 scopes, those scopes all together total could be almost a price of 1 premium scope, some quoted me about "Quality vs. Quantity", i have to know when i should choose quantity more and i should know when i should choose quality as well, i might go with 10 quantity and only 1 quality.

Brian:
I’d also prefer a scope that’s ready to use in just a few minutes, so something like the Epsilon 130 wouldn’t be suitable

Can you explain this? My Epsilon 130 is ready to use immediately.

Dunk:
Brian:
I’d also prefer a scope that’s ready to use in just a few minutes, so something like the Epsilon 130 wouldn’t be suitable

Can you explain this? My Epsilon 130 is ready to use immediately.

I am sure they will say as long if it is collimated, if not,...............................................

Tareq Abdulla:
I am sure they will say as long if it is collimated, if not,...............................................

This is the same for any scope that needs collimating?

How much money do you want to spend, and how much do you want to fiddle?

Like to fiddle, lots and lots of money
Epsilon 180ED
Epsilon 160ED
Epsilon 130ED
(Buy the Epsilon that best matches your desired focal length… You WILL NOT regret this purchase)

Like to fiddle, reasonable amount of money
Sharpstar 15028HNT (420mm focal length, f/2.8)
Sharpstar 13028HNT (384mm focal length, f/2.8)
(Again, either that suits your desired focal length better)

Like fiddling, budget is tight(er)
Apertura Carbonstar 6" f/4 (I'd be taking their 62mm secondary mirror out and putting a larger one in there myself)

Love fiddling, budget is tight
6" f/4 newt, reducing coma corrector to get to f/3.45, do some flocking, mirror mask, when budget allows an after market spider and focuser upgrade.. This can be a POTENT telescope for very little money (comparativley)

Hate fiddling, lots and lots of money
Askar FRA600
Tak FSQ106N
Sharpstar Z4
WO Pleadies 111

Hate fiddling, lots of money
TMB 80mm f/6 (if you can find one - I'd consider the 80/480 to be the best wide field telescope money can buy… and I lament the day I sold mine… that error in judgement will haunt me to the grave and probably beyond…)
Askar FRA500
Tak FSQ85EDX (I put this last because, pixel peeping, optically I find my Askar 65PHQ to be better than the FSQ85. [WAITS FOR THE RAGE FROM ALL THE TAK USERS TRYING TO JUSTIFY THEIR EXPENSIVE CHOICES])

Hate fiddling, reasonable amount of money
Askar 65PHQ
Askar FRA400

Hate fiddling, budget is tight
Askar 71.

I'm really excited to see reviews on the SQA85, it seems like an amazing scope.

Alex Nicholas:
Tak FSQ106N

Actually they have not made the 106N for a long time (I have one). I think they stopped making it maybe 8-10 years ago. It used fluorite. The current model is the FSQ-106EDX4.

The N is the one scope I have had since the early 2000s and would never part with despite having bought and sold others during the time I have had it. I had an opportunity to compare it to the EDX and it is still better, dispute being much older.

Alex Nicholas:
Hate fiddling, reasonable amount of money
Askar 65PHQ

yeah, no fiddling with that one

and the price was lowered $200 too since a few months ago (it was $1K before)

I will never sell my 65phq; it does way too good for the price

Bill McLaughlin:
Alex Nicholas:
Tak FSQ106N

Actually they have not made the 106N for a long time (I have one). I think they stopped making it maybe 8-10 years ago. It used fluorite. The current model is the FSQ-106EDX4.

The N is the one scope I have had since the early 2000s and would never part with despite having bought and sold others during the time I have had it. I had an opportunity to compare it to the EDX and it is still better, dispute being much older.

Specifically why I singled out the N vs the new EDX4... Not all the scopes on my list there are still able to be purchased new (the TMB80/480 are almost impossible to get used, too) but the FSQ106N is an absoulte DREAM scope!

Hi,
Thanks for your input.
Stellarvue isn't an option for me because you can't get them here in Europe.
I was interested in the Esprit 100, but it requires tuning/collimation from the dealer, which is time-consuming and sometimes expensive. A friend of mine has an Esprit 100 with the Riccardi reducer. He had a lot of problems with tilt and spacing. I've heard similar things from a few other users, although some don't have this issue.According to my dealer, the Esprit 80 is the worst of the lineup, and he wouldn’t recommend it to me.
I don't want to buy a scope with a mirror because I don't like having to collimate. I know there are some scopes, like the Epsilon, that can hold collimation for a long time, but when you do need to collimate…
So in the end, only an APO is suitable for me.
The FSQs are too expensive for me, unfortunately.
At the moment, the only scopes I’m considering are from WO and Askar. Here in Germany/Europe, you can get many scopes from TS, but I’ve had some problems with them and don't want to buy from them anymore.
My budget for the scope is about €2500 max.
Best regards,
Brian

Brian:
I was interested in the Esprit 100, but it requires tuning/collimation from the dealer, which is time-consuming and sometimes expensive. A friend of mine has an Esprit 100 with the Riccardi reducer. He had a lot of problems with tilt and spacing.

"The scope needs tuning/collimation from the dealer", could you elaborate on this? I bought this exact scope last year, and while the vendor state that they bench-test each scope there was no collimation or tuning done to it. Neither would you need to. The scope is reasonably fast and has a good size aperture and I have not seen issues with tilt nor spacing. It's the regular 55mm from the flattener + the standard minor adjustment for filters.

If you add third party reducers that aren't necessarily 100% compatible it becomes a entirely different thing. The 100ED natively doesn't have any reducers, you could use both the Riccardi or Starizona ones but that will turn it into a different beast. There's no guarantee that you will get a perfectly flat field or round stars edge to edge. But that's hardly the telescope's fault as it isn't inteded to be reduced originally. But anything that fast needs critical tuning when it comes to spacers/shims and tilt. There's no way around that, but this is the consequence of adding the reducer. Still, it's not that hard to adjust backfocus. If the reducer introduces tilt though, I would probably have a talk with the maker.

Brian:
I was interested in the Esprit 100, but it requires tuning/collimation from the dealer, which is time-consuming and sometimes expensive. A friend of mine has an Esprit 100 with the Riccardi reducer. He had a lot of problems with tilt and spacing.

"The scope needs tuning/collimation from the dealer", could you elaborate on this? I bought this exact scope last year, and while the vendor state that they bench-test each scope there was no collimation or tuning done to it. Neither would you need to. The scope is reasonably fast and has a good size aperture and I have not seen issues with tilt nor spacing. It's the regular 55mm from the flattener + the standard minor adjustment for filters.

If you add third party reducers that aren't necessarily 100% compatible it becomes a entirely different thing. The 100ED natively doesn't have any reducers, you could use both the Riccardi or Starizona ones but that will turn it into a different beast. There's no guarantee that you will get a perfectly flat field or round stars edge to edge. But that's hardly the telescope's fault as it isn't inteded to be reduced originally. But anything that fast needs critical tuning when it comes to spacers/shims and tilt. There's no way around that, but this is the consequence of adding the reducer. Still, it's not that hard to adjust backfocus. If the reducer introduces tilt though, I would probably have a talk with the maker.

My dealer, other dealers, and users have told me, or mentioned in forums, that it's necessary to optimize the scopes to get the best performance out of them and to eliminate certain issues.One issue that some, though not all, scopes have is that in cold temperatures, the lens cell or screws press against the glass, causing strange star shapes to appear. This is something that 'needs' to be fixed if you want an excellent scope.I'm not an expert; I can only share what the dealers and users are saying.I know that third-party reducers aren’t 100% compatible, but I need one if I want to achieve a maximum focal length of 400mm. With the flattener, the focal length is too long for my needs.

Brian:
Hi,
Thanks for your input.
Stellarvue isn't an option for me because you can't get them here in Europe.
I was interested in the Esprit 100, but it requires tuning/collimation from the dealer, which is time-consuming and sometimes expensive. A friend of mine has an Esprit 100 with the Riccardi reducer. He had a lot of problems with tilt and spacing. I've heard similar things from a few other users, although some don't have this issue.According to my dealer, the Esprit 80 is the worst of the lineup, and he wouldn’t recommend it to me.
I don't want to buy a scope with a mirror because I don't like having to collimate. I know there are some scopes, like the Epsilon, that can hold collimation for a long time, but when you do need to collimate...
So in the end, only an APO is suitable for me.
The FSQs are too expensive for me, unfortunately.
At the moment, the only scopes I’m considering are from WO and Askar. Here in Germany/Europe, you can get many scopes from TS, but I’ve had some problems with them and don't want to buy from them anymore.
My budget for the scope is about €2500 max.
Best regards,
Brian

Hmm.... I had Esprit 80 with SW flattener, no tilt , no backfocus problems . It was simply perfect small scope. Had to sell it to finance LZOS refractor, but will never stop regretting that I could not keep it. I also have Esprit 120, tried with various flatteners and reducers. Never any problems . Several colleagues from our local "club" do have various Esprits, never heard anyone complaining. Like with everything , some people do some do not have problems with the same thing, but from my own experience , the Esprit series are one of the best scopes when you take price/performance into account. They are perhaps not fully up to the Takahashi, AP, LZOS optical quality, but they are not that far and the price tag is dramatically lower. If I would be spending 2.5kEur for refractor in that FL range , it would be Esprit 100 , without any doubt. 😀
CS

Brian:
My dealer, other dealers, and users have told me, or mentioned in forums, that it's necessary to optimize the scopes to get the best performance out of them and to eliminate certain issues.One issue that some, though not all, scopes have is that in cold temperatures, the lens cell or screws press against the glass, causing strange star shapes to appear. This is something that 'needs' to be fixed if you want an excellent scope.I'm not an expert; I can only share what the dealers and users are saying.I know that third-party reducers aren’t 100% compatible, but I need one if I want to achieve a maximum focal length of 400mm. With the flattener, the focal length is too long for my needs.

I'm not gonna boast that I have the coldest temps out there, but my season is during the winter when the temperatures are often around -20c, I have imaged closer to -30c over certain periods and let everything stay outside. No issues with pinched optics as far as I can tell. I know certain scopes struggle with this, the Sharpstar Z4 being one of them, someone I know had to return theirs due to excessive issues when it wasn't even that cold.

All I'm saying is that if you get these responses sharing sources and what they said would be beneficial. It doesn't align at all with my own experience. I got mine from FLO which have always been excellent from a service point of view, so things may be different with other vendors. I know TS have a habit of saying various things that doesn't always hold water when I cross check their statements.

If you 100% need a smaller FOV then I agree, this would probably not be the best scope to choose, I plan to add a reducer myself, but I don't necessarily expect it to perform as good with it in the corners so that's fine. Although Starizona have told me that people who complain about star shapes usually don't bother fine tuning their backfocus which they claim to be the root cause. This can of course be tedious, but not that hard to do.

Dunk:
Tareq Abdulla:
I am sure they will say as long if it is collimated, if not,...............................................

This is the same for any scope that needs collimating?

Is collimating F6 or F5 Newt is same as collimating F2.8 or even F4? I mean i read many have issues or struggle to collimate F4, not alone something faster, i don't mind if i will buy one, but others mind.

Brian:
At the moment, the only scopes I’m considering are from WO and Askar. Here in Germany/Europe, you can get many scopes from TS, but I’ve had some problems with them and don't want to buy from them anymore.

Best regards,
Brian

This is a limited number of scopes, and so, perhaps you have answered your own question. I've heard good things about Askar and was considering a phq 151. May I ask what were your problems with TS - product or service?
Thanks,
Ian