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Opinions about the TOA-130NFB focuser, is it enough for AP?

Takahashi TOA-130 Takahashi TOA-130NFB Refractors Focuser
Ashraf AbuSaraDark Matters Astrophotography
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Is the TOA-130NFB focuser good for AP or not
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Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
I was looking at possibely getting a TOA-130 and combining it with a 645 field flattner. I would like to use a full frame IMX 455 camera with it. 

Is the TOA-130NFB focuser with a focus motor installed good enough? Any issues with sag or rotational play? OR should I just get a 130-NS and use the savings towards getting a third party focuser? 

This would be brand new so I am looking for opinions about recent models.
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Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
The focusers are fine these days with a good motor on them. Similarly you can get the cheaper scope and use a NiteCrawler instead, which I think for an imaging only scope, is the best combination for the price
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
The focusers are fine these days with a good motor on them. Similarly you can get the cheaper scope and use a NiteCrawler instead, which I think for an imaging only scope, is the best combination for the price

The nightcrawler is quite a lot more. The 2.5" starts at $2500, even with the cheaper NS it would still be far more expensive. Not looking at 3" or bigger. Is that even enough for a full frame sensor? 

If the NFB focuser is good enough I'll take it. On my epsilon 160ED for example there was definitely some rotational play on the focuser. Just don't want to deal with something like that on the TOA.
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
You'd want a 3.5" NC focuser on the TOA long term anyhow. If that's too much, then go with the larger Tak focuser.

You can definitely get the NFB focuser. It's much more robust than the Epsilon focuser.
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
You'd want a 3.5" NC focuser on the TOA long term anyhow. If that's too much, then go with the larger Tak focuser.

You can definitely get the NFB focuser. It's much more robust than the Epsilon focuser.

I don't mind the extra cost as long as there is a material advantage to that cost.The nightcrawler looks really nice, but for that price I can spend that money elsewhere. If the NFB will perform well with a motorized focuser I'd rather go with it. Thanks for the feedback!
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
You'd want a 3.5" NC focuser on the TOA long term anyhow. If that's too much, then go with the larger Tak focuser.

You can definitely get the NFB focuser. It's much more robust than the Epsilon focuser.

I don't mind the extra cost as long as there is a material advantage to that cost.The nightcrawler looks really nice, but for that price I can spend that money elsewhere. If the NFB will perform well with a motorized focuser I'd rather go with it. Thanks for the feedback!



The NC has a backlash free focuser and rotator with an integrated controller that only needs a single 12v power and one USB cable. The 0.2667 micron steps on the focuser pretty much ensures you'll get perfect focus everytime without any fuss. It's my go to focuser for almost all of our systems. 

Our 20" CDK uses a Gemini which works very well too, but costs more than the NiteCrawler and needs more cables and wires than the NC does. It was already on the scope when we bought it and works great, had we gone new on the scope we would have bought a NC.
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Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
The focusers are fine these days with a good motor on them. Similarly you can get the cheaper scope and use a NiteCrawler instead, which I think for an imaging only scope, is the best combination for the price

The nightcrawler is quite a lot more. The 2.5" starts at $2500, even with the cheaper NS it would still be far more expensive. Not looking at 3" or bigger. Is that even enough for a full frame sensor? 

If the NFB focuser is good enough I'll take it. On my epsilon 160ED for example there was definitely some rotational play on the focuser. Just don't want to deal with something like that on the TOA.

Thank you. You mentioned the Gemini and I actually realized that I have a Hercules focuser that I had earmarked for my AG Optical FA12, but now maybe I can put it on the TOA instead? 

How easy is it to remove the stock focuser and put a third party focuser on the TOA-130NS? Is it easy to collimate the focuser?
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Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Ashraf AbuSara:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
The focusers are fine these days with a good motor on them. Similarly you can get the cheaper scope and use a NiteCrawler instead, which I think for an imaging only scope, is the best combination for the price

The nightcrawler is quite a lot more. The 2.5" starts at $2500, even with the cheaper NS it would still be far more expensive. Not looking at 3" or bigger. Is that even enough for a full frame sensor? 

If the NFB focuser is good enough I'll take it. On my epsilon 160ED for example there was definitely some rotational play on the focuser. Just don't want to deal with something like that on the TOA.

Thank you. You mentioned the Gemini and I actually realized that I have a Hercules focuser that I had earmarked for my AG Optical FA12, but now maybe I can put it on the TOA instead? 

How easy is it to remove the stock focuser and put a third party focuser on the TOA-130NS? Is it easy to collimate the focuser?



You need to loosen a small set screw (very small!) on the TOA stock focuser then you can thread it completely off. Your replacement focuser would then thread onto the OTA tube in place of the original focuser. It's significantly easier to do than the Epsilon focuser replacement, just don't forget the set screw.

You could use the Hercules, I'm sure Jeff has a TOA compatible flange for it. You'll probably need some extension tubes though since the travel of the Hercules will be way too short to come to focus on the TOA.
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t-ara-fan avatar
t-ara-fan avatar
I thought the Nightcrawler was kind of expensive, especially since I am at my observatory and can rotate manually.  I decided to try the NFB focuser and decide later.  3 years later, no problems with the NFB.  I have an Optec Focuslynx focus motor - the one with a built in controller so only USB and +12V plug into it.  I have no problems, even at -20°C.

Just because I like toys, I recently bought a 25mm long M92 extension ring that I put between the focuser and the FLAT67 reducer.  This means the focuser is extended by 1" less. Not sure if necessary, seemed like a good idea.

I designed and 3D printed a Rotation Indicator, so I can get precise rotation to within 0.5° on the first try.  In this pic the vernier shows I am at 3.0° rotation.

My TOA is a few years old, so I have the FLAT67.  The new 645 has AMAZING specs.

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Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
The focusers are fine these days with a good motor on them. Similarly you can get the cheaper scope and use a NiteCrawler instead, which I think for an imaging only scope, is the best combination for the price

The nightcrawler is quite a lot more. The 2.5" starts at $2500, even with the cheaper NS it would still be far more expensive. Not looking at 3" or bigger. Is that even enough for a full frame sensor? 

If the NFB focuser is good enough I'll take it. On my epsilon 160ED for example there was definitely some rotational play on the focuser. Just don't want to deal with something like that on the TOA.

Thank you. You mentioned the Gemini and I actually realized that I have a Hercules focuser that I had earmarked for my AG Optical FA12, but now maybe I can put it on the TOA instead? 

How easy is it to remove the stock focuser and put a third party focuser on the TOA-130NS? Is it easy to collimate the focuser?



You need to loosen a small set screw (very small!) on the TOA stock focuser then you can thread it completely off. Your replacement focuser would then thread onto the OTA tube in place of the original focuser. It's significantly easier to do than the Epsilon focuser replacement, just don't forget the set screw.

You could use the Hercules, I'm sure Jeff has a TOA compatible flange for it. You'll probably need some extension tubes though since the travel of the Hercules will be way too short to come to focus on the TOA.

Thanks. Do you need to collimate the focuser when you do that? I recall Chris from Tak America scared me away from replacing the stock TOA focuser with the Starlight sometime ago, because he said it would need factory collimation. I never changed a focuser on a refractor before. On the E160ED it was quite easy for me to collimate the mirrors again.
Timothy Martin avatar
Timothy Martin avatar
I’m sorry I can’t speak directly to the adequacy of the Tak focuser. What I can say is that when I was putting my TOA rig together, Tolga (my dealer) absolutely insisted that I go with a NiteCrawler. I have no regrets. I agree with Bill on this one. I own three NiteCrawlers and they are superb. If you’re serious about imaging, you will also very much appreciate the rotator.
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Sam Berrad avatar
Sam Berrad avatar
Hi

i have the TOA130NFB with an optec foucuslynx motor - it works great until the temperatures drops to -20C at which point it becomes too hard to move.  
The smoothness of the NFB focuser seems to be variable - mine is average (but works excellent for astrophotography at above -20C), while I have a friend who has the same setup and uses it at colder temperatures.
The focus curves look great (see image)
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Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
The focusers are fine these days with a good motor on them. Similarly you can get the cheaper scope and use a NiteCrawler instead, which I think for an imaging only scope, is the best combination for the price

The nightcrawler is quite a lot more. The 2.5" starts at $2500, even with the cheaper NS it would still be far more expensive. Not looking at 3" or bigger. Is that even enough for a full frame sensor? 

If the NFB focuser is good enough I'll take it. On my epsilon 160ED for example there was definitely some rotational play on the focuser. Just don't want to deal with something like that on the TOA.

Thank you. You mentioned the Gemini and I actually realized that I have a Hercules focuser that I had earmarked for my AG Optical FA12, but now maybe I can put it on the TOA instead? 

How easy is it to remove the stock focuser and put a third party focuser on the TOA-130NS? Is it easy to collimate the focuser?



You need to loosen a small set screw (very small!) on the TOA stock focuser then you can thread it completely off. Your replacement focuser would then thread onto the OTA tube in place of the original focuser. It's significantly easier to do than the Epsilon focuser replacement, just don't forget the set screw.

You could use the Hercules, I'm sure Jeff has a TOA compatible flange for it. You'll probably need some extension tubes though since the travel of the Hercules will be way too short to come to focus on the TOA.

Thanks. Do you need to collimate the focuser when you do that? I recall Chris from Tak America scared me away from replacing the stock TOA focuser with the Starlight sometime ago, because he said it would need factory collimation. I never changed a focuser on a refractor before. On the E160ED it was quite easy for me to collimate the mirrors again.



I've never seen a problem with the optical alignment after replacing a TOA stock focuser with a NC. I guess technically speaking it would need to be done, but like I said, I've never seen anything misaligned after completing this work. 

I should also mention that I've replaced stock focusers on many refractors, including a TOA130, TOA150, and AP130 GTX, with NC focusers and always had a perfect field afterwards.
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t-ara-fan avatar
t-ara-fan avatar
Further to my saying the NFB is fine, here is an ASTAP tilt report.  I think it looks fine.

Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar

 
Further to my saying the NFB is fine, here is an ASTAP tilt report.  I think it looks fine.


Thanks! I have access to an ASG photoncage on my 6200mm. I can fix tilt and backfocus after the fact. But have you noticed any rotational play or changing tilt depending on target?
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Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
The focusers are fine these days with a good motor on them. Similarly you can get the cheaper scope and use a NiteCrawler instead, which I think for an imaging only scope, is the best combination for the price

The nightcrawler is quite a lot more. The 2.5" starts at $2500, even with the cheaper NS it would still be far more expensive. Not looking at 3" or bigger. Is that even enough for a full frame sensor? 

If the NFB focuser is good enough I'll take it. On my epsilon 160ED for example there was definitely some rotational play on the focuser. Just don't want to deal with something like that on the TOA.

Thank you. You mentioned the Gemini and I actually realized that I have a Hercules focuser that I had earmarked for my AG Optical FA12, but now maybe I can put it on the TOA instead? 

How easy is it to remove the stock focuser and put a third party focuser on the TOA-130NS? Is it easy to collimate the focuser?



You need to loosen a small set screw (very small!) on the TOA stock focuser then you can thread it completely off. Your replacement focuser would then thread onto the OTA tube in place of the original focuser. It's significantly easier to do than the Epsilon focuser replacement, just don't forget the set screw.

You could use the Hercules, I'm sure Jeff has a TOA compatible flange for it. You'll probably need some extension tubes though since the travel of the Hercules will be way too short to come to focus on the TOA.

Thanks. Do you need to collimate the focuser when you do that? I recall Chris from Tak America scared me away from replacing the stock TOA focuser with the Starlight sometime ago, because he said it would need factory collimation. I never changed a focuser on a refractor before. On the E160ED it was quite easy for me to collimate the mirrors again.



I've never seen a problem with the optical alignment after replacing a TOA stock focuser with a NC. I guess technically speaking it would need to be done, but like I said, I've never seen anything misaligned after completing this work. 

I should also mention that I've replaced stock focusers on many refractors, including a TOA130, TOA150, and AP130 GTX, with NC focusers and always had a perfect field afterwards.

Thanks! That is really good to know. 

So I guess I have to decide between the NFB and using the stock focuser or the NS and get a third party focuser.

And just to verify, there really is no other difference between the NFB and the NS other than the focuser. Correct?
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Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Yeah just be careful of some of the focusing motors on the market. There are a bunch of them, some connect to the fine focuser, which can cause its own set of problems, and others have a tremendous amount of backlash and set screws that like to wiggle their way out.

As for the scopes being identical, I would confirm that with TNR but yes I believe so.
Timothy Martin avatar
Timothy Martin avatar
My more limited experience comports with Bill’s. No alignment issue with the NiteCrawlers. They’re not temperamental, either. The electronics are solid. The drivers are also solid and easy to configure. The mechanics are very sturdy and ready for countless nights outside in all kinds of conditions. To paraphrase the old admonition, nobody ever got fired for buying MoonLite.
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Niko Geisriegler avatar
Niko Geisriegler avatar
Hello!

In January I got my TOA 130 NS with Starlight true 3" Feather touch OAZ. I fitted a QHY Qfoc high precision version. The 1:10 reduction of the OAZ had a knock, but was replaced free of charge. The Qfoc has been running since then without any problems.
Oh yes, I installed the Tak 645 0.99x flattener, which gives me a perfectly flat field of view for my 268m.

Look also on my First Light with this Setup:
TOA 130 NS First Light

I hope my approach helps you.
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Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography:
Yeah just be careful of some of the focusing motors on the market. There are a bunch of them, some connect to the fine focuser, which can cause its own set of problems, and others have a tremendous amount of backlash and set screws that like to wiggle their way out.

As for the scopes being identical, I would confirm that with TNR but yes I believe so.


Thank you. Do you have any materials or links to show the process of replacing the focusers? Just want to see what I am getting myself into here. 
Niko Geisriegler:
Hello!

In January I got my TOA 130 NS with Starlight true 3" Feather touch OAZ. I fitted a QHY Qfoc high precision version. The 1:10 reduction of the OAZ had a knock, but was replaced free of charge. The Qfoc has been running since then without any problems.
Oh yes, I installed the Tak 645 0.99x flattener, which gives me a perfectly flat field of view for my 268m.

Look also on my First Light with this Setup:
TOA 130 NS First Light

I hope my approach helps you.

That is very helpful. Thank you.
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
Dark Matters Astrophotography avatar
I don't have any, but Ron from MoonLite likely does.
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Got it thank you all for the replies. Extremely helpful feedback!
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Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Ashraf AbuSara avatar
Sam Berrad:
Hi

i have the TOA130NFB with an optec foucuslynx motor - it works great until the temperatures drops to -20C at which point it becomes too hard to move.  
The smoothness of the NFB focuser seems to be variable - mine is average (but works excellent for astrophotography at above -20C), while I have a friend who has the same setup and uses it at colder temperatures.
The focus curves look great (see image)

Luckily temps never get that low here in Texas!
Sam Berrad avatar
Sam Berrad avatar
So it should work perfectly (and by keeping the NFB focuser there is no risk of changing collimation )
Alex avatar
Alex avatar
I purposely bought a new TOA NS last year and let a 3,5“ Feathertouch to be installed. Very happy with it, no rotational play or strange stars using a full frame IMX455 with a 7x2” filter wheel and the 0,99 Flattner. Likely next week the more demanding reducer will be installed once it arrived in the observatory.

however, I only shoot with fixed rotation at 0° degree simply not to complicate remote operation even more. 

However, if you into a rotator take a nitecrawler.