Travel mount: pricey AM5 or second hand CEM26?

I need a travel mount that can carry my quattro 150p, with a possibility to upgrade to a 200p and is not a terrible investment. Have a little time before my astro-trip is coming but not enough to sit out anything and beyond. Currently I see £1500 difference between a well kept cem26 and a new AM5 I could actually buy. This is huge, pays for 10 years worth of excess baggage fees!

Any thoughts if I should go with the cem26 or still try getting a bearable AM5 deal? My current gear: Quattro 150p, Altair 533m camera, filter wheel, heavy 50mm guidescope. Potential big gear I'll upgrade: quattro 200p with the same dressing (this one definitely needs the tube checked in, primary in hand luggage anyway).

A CEM26 will serve just as well but there is a definite limit of what it can do but I guess a light fast 8" newt is in the real of possibilities. My GEM28 would certainly handle it as it does now with the 6" f/4 with an all out assembled weight of just under 9 kg.

I agree, if the GEM will carry the load then save the money and go with that.

As a long term user of the older brother CEM25 I would say you'll suffer with a newtonian sitting on top of it. Not to mention that the CEM design will obstruct the focuser as the RA motor sits in front (ask me how I know this :sad

It will hurt once but if you can get a AM5 with a counterweight go for it
I like ioptron but I think the CEM26 should be used with refractors up to 4" max
If you still want to save some money get an EQ5 at least it is bulkier to handle the newtonian.

I agree, if the GEM will carry the load then save the money and go with that.

Thank you! The jury is out, but the £1500 difference is really steep, basically covers an additional, high end OTA. Adding the GEM28 to the options too... Carrying on with my homework tho to see what those painful £££ really add to the mix.

Rafael Amarins:
As a long term user of the older brother CEM25 I would say you'll suffer with a newtonian sitting on top of it. Not to mention that the CEM design will obstruct the focuser as the RA motor sits in front (ask me how I know this )
It will hurt once but if you can get a AM5 with a counterweight go for it
I like ioptron but I think the CEM26 should be used with refractors up to 4" max
If you still want to save some money get an EQ5 at least it is bulkier to handle the newtonian.

I know, the AM5 would be better, stronger, lighter - question is if a mount with a similar head only weight could do the job. I have a HEQ5 for home, but that heavy piece of iron definitely stays at home. Would the GEM28 be a better option? I am a bit less fond of that one because doesn't like Altitudes below ~15°, and I definitely like those altitudes

If weight is an issue the CEM26 with a 1.5 steel trypod and counterweights (you'll need 2x 5kg or at least 5kg+3kg) is considerable. EQ5 x CEM26 should count for 3kg diffence. The total gear to carry around including OTA, FW, guider, camera etc should be 25kg eq5 vs 22kg with the CEM26 or so?
In the other hand the AM5 has carbon fiber tripod and no counterweights if you chose to.

Being light, cheap and campable of handle a 6 or 8 inch newtonian will no match in the center of a venn diagram.

Rafael Amarins:
As a long term user of the older brother CEM25 I would say you'll suffer with a newtonian sitting on top of it. Not to mention that the CEM design will obstruct the focuser as the RA motor sits in front (ask me how I know this )
It will hurt once but if you can get a AM5 with a counterweight go for it
I like ioptron but I think the CEM26 should be used with refractors up to 4" max
If you still want to save some money get an EQ5 at least it is bulkier to handle the newtonian.

*The CEM26 has no issue with a 6" fast newton as I tested it myself (but I prefer the GEM) so I don't know where that comes from. No problem with a focuser staying upright which is only reasonable for collimation purposes.

Rafael Amarins:

That's perfectly clear, I am sacrificing weight for £££. Already got a 40mm tube carbon tripod, a cem26/gem28 needs an adapter though. The "only" difference here compared to the AM5 is the approx 10kg CW. Carrying this approx 10kg extra weight around the world would take loads of trips to cover the price difference. One aspect I haven't thought about, simply because it was completely unavailable with conventional AP gear: backpacking! AM5, tripod, my smaller APO (90/600), camera gear, battery, laptop alltogeter weighs less than 20kg. I could take this on easier hikes in hills not directly accessible by car

. So maybe I steer back to SW country and try to find a sweeter deal.

I have both those mounts - no doubt, go for AM5 and leave all the problems with balance and guiding behind. It was - at least for me - great investment. Mount is the basis of every astrophotography equipment. If you want "stress-free" astrophotography I would choose AM5.

I have both those mounts - no doubt, go for AM5 and leave all the problems with balance and guiding behind. It was - at least for me - great investment. Mount is the basis of every astrophotography equipment. If you want "stress-free" astrophotography I would choose AM5.

Valid point. Living under almost permanent clouds set up time is directly affecting productivity here. Funnily on trips not so much, as I obviously tend to visit dryer places where dusk till dawn clear sky doesn't count as a once in a century event

Usually when someone asks for a traveling rig, we all think of the SW SAGti with a Redcat 51. In this case, it seems to me you are looking for a travel mount for a "not-so-good-to-travel" scope. Under those circumstances and in any scenario, a decent harmonic mount will outperform any other equatorial mount . Get the AM5 or the new Skywatcher wave150.

I opted for the UMi 17Lite from Proxisky. Brilliant mount at about half the cost of the AM5 guided down to around 0.3" out of the box. Weighs 6.5 kg, rated at 13kg with no cw,or 20kg.
I've had this mount for about 5 months now - couldn't be happier.

I agree with Guillermo - the 150p is not exactly what one would call a "travel" scope (and the 200p even worse).

and I also agree with Trevor - an Umi (they have 3 models I believe) would keep costs down and give you essentially the same performance…

One more thing in favour of the UMi mounts is that they have a Discord channel where you can get real time (essentially) support for any issues you may be having with your mount. It's a very active group with many very knowledgeable users including the manufacturers of the mounts - and a nicer bunch you'd never meet

Trevor Phillips:
One more thing in favour of the UMi mounts is that they have a Discord channel where you can get real time (essentially) support for any issues you may be having with your mount. It's a very active group with many very knowledgeable users including the manufacturers of the mounts - and a nicer bunch you'd never meet

For £1000++ (the 17r ends up around £1600 shipped and taxed here) I want local warranty and good working condition out of the box no fettling.

The Juwei-17 (see thread) is just as good (or bad, depending on opinions) but last time I checked, abouth a month ago, it was £870 shipping included. You'll have to add the 20% VAT I suppose so it is just few quid over the grand mark.

Trevor Phillips:
One more thing in favour of the UMi mounts is that they have a Discord channel where you can get real time (essentially) support for any issues you may be having with your mount. It's a very active group with many very knowledgeable users including the manufacturers of the mounts - and a nicer bunch you'd never meet

For £1000++ (the 17r ends up around £1600 shipped and taxed here) I want local warranty and good working condition out of the box no fettling.

Well your warranty would be with China regardless of zwo, prosky etc. even if you could buy from a local shop - they'd just handle sending it back to China for you if its broken.

Not sure what you mean by "good working condition out of the box no fettling" as Umi mounts have been around for quite a while now and have a raving fanbase and in fact if you join the discord mentioned above, you can talk to the owner of the company who replies to almost all enquiries...

I thought highly enough of the 17Lite that I then bought the 17R - once again glad I did.
Proxisky are very mindful of their reputation and sell via PayPal. Yes, repairs need to be sent to China but transport is quick and reliable. One customer's order, several $K was stolen (by a courier service employee in Germany I believe) and the company shipped out replacements within a couple of days.
I personally feel very secure dealing with Proxisky.

The CEM26 can handle a 6“ Newton easily. I have the older CEM25P with a 5“ Newton, so slightly lighter but same length and I guide around 0.5“ RMS total, sometimes even lower, when the seeing is shit up to 0.7“. But yeah the focuser has to be up on the CEM design, not ideal imo but the mount can handle it. If you can get one for cheap and the money is tight, go for it. I travelled with my CEM25P via plane as well. Head in hand luggage, rest checked luggage.

I have both the AM5 and the GEM28. Both handle well my 11kg Esprit rig, but the GEM28 needs 10kg of counter weights and I also use it with the literoc tripod which is almost 7kg, so the total mount assembly in both cases is:
GEM28: mount 4.5kg + tripod 7kg + counter weights 10kg = 21.5kg
AM5: mount 5.5kg + tripod 2,3kg = 7,8kg
So its almos 3 times heavier, I wouldn't recommend them for potability if you want to use them with heavy setups. The GEM28 or CEM26 are light and portable when you pair them with light scopes that barely use counterweights, and you put them in a carbon fiber tripod; if you go for that combo then yes they are very portable and there is almost no difference in weight next to a harmonic.
But if you're planing to use them with a heavy scope that needs loads of counterweights and pair it with a heavy steel tripod, then the there isn't even a comparison.

I had both mounts. I got the AM5 after selling the CEM26. There is no comparison, AM5 is just more modern and better in every way. Plus you don't the counter heights, balance and all that crap ahah. Don't try to save money on the mount, that's my advice.

David Cruz:
I had both mounts. I got the AM5 after selling the CEM26. There is no comparison, AM5 is just more modern and better in every way. Plus you don't the counter heights, balance and all that crap ahah. Don't try to save money on the mount, that's my advice.

It depends on what you wanna do with the mount and the budget. For someone budgetconcious who limits themselves to a 4" refractor or a 6" reflector, I'd always pick a CEM26 over a ZWO AM5 or a EQ5, HEQ5 etc. It's pretty much the best mount in the 1000$ priceclass, and performs pretty well, it is easy to tune / adjust yourself, and the mounthead itself is light. If you plan to go bigger in the near future, I'd go with a ZWO AM5 or similar if the budget permits it. I somewhere saw the EQ5 recommended in this thread over the CEM26 - I would never agree with this, the EQ5 is an even older, clunkier mount design which consistently performs a lot worse than iOptrons budget options - I haven't read many threads of an EQ5 guiding sub 1" RMS total, and even for the HEQ5 its not super common. My CEM25P guides pretty much like an upper middle class mount like an EQ6-R pro or a CEM70 if I don't go crazy with the payload - but I bothered to adjust the worm play in the dec axis and adjust so it doesn't have any friction / backlash anymore. Of course the harmonic drive mounts are nice, but they come with a pricetag - and they need sub 1s, better 0.5s guide exposures - if you have bright skies and wanna use an OAG, you need a guidecam which is super sensitive and has a bigger sensor alongside the matching OAG with a big prism. I also don't find the CEM25P difficult to balance - but might be just me - as I started with this mount and I'm a fan of the design. I also never bothered to balance the third axis and still get good results.

In the end, it's a question of the budget and of your longterm plans. And you can always sell a mount and buy a bigger one.

Dunk:
Well your warranty would be with China regardless of zwo, prosky etc. even if you could buy from a local shop - they'd just handle sending it back to China for you if its broken.

Not sure what you mean by "good working condition out of the box no fettling" as Umi mounts have been around for quite a while now and have a raving fanbase and in fact if you join the discord mentioned above, you can talk to the owner of the company who replies to almost all enquiries...

Actually one mount, the Ragdoll 20 looks quite interesting from there: if works as advertised (big if with a little known mount...) without issues, that could cover ALL my mount needs, home and travel. https://www.proxisky.com/page92?product_id=65 A payload range like that in a compact package could justify the investment for me - however this is a new mount, no one knows if it can REALLY carry e.g a c14 class ota as it advertises.

Dunk:
Well your warranty would be with China regardless of zwo, prosky etc. even if you could buy from a local shop - they'd just handle sending it back to China for you if its broken.

Not sure what you mean by "good working condition out of the box no fettling" as Umi mounts have been around for quite a while now and have a raving fanbase and in fact if you join the discord mentioned above, you can talk to the owner of the company who replies to almost all enquiries...

Actually one mount, the Ragdoll 20 looks quite interesting from there: if works as advertised (big if with a little known mount...) without issues, that could cover ALL my mount needs, home and travel. https://www.proxisky.com/page92?product_id=65 A payload range like that in a compact package could justify the investment for me - however this is a new mount, no one knows if it can REALLY carry e.g a c14 class ota as it advertises.

I agree here - it‘s between the Ragdoll 20 and the CEM70 for me. Both look tempting but I do know for sure that the CEM70 will do what I want / need, while a 10“ f4 might be a gamble on the Ragdoll - especially as I already have the CEM25P as my travel mount. I‘m keeping an eye on feedback and following the discord channel.

True, time to sit the big one out until there is enough experience. Meantime I found a good looking used deal on the AM5, will give that one a try. Certainly easier to sell later thanks to the name, even tho no "7/24 support"…

For the time being I'd definitely not invest in a CEM70 unless it comes at a very steep discount (i.e. below half price) because I am certain that the coming year will show several strain wave mounts capable to carry a 12" Newtonian of course with some counterweight. 10" f4 if you have a light carbon OTA even has a chance on an AM5.

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