Need help with SHO processing software. GIMP, APP, PI or other?

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Eddie Bagwell avatar
I'm fairly new to AP and have been using GIMP to process all of my current astro images. I use DSS to stack. I just recently switched to a mono camera (asi294mm Pro) and collected my first set of SHO subs but having a difficult time processing them in GIMP to produce a nice hubble SHO image. I can't seem to produce the golds and blues so it may be time to upgrade my software to achieve the desired results. I would like to stay with GIMP because I am familiar with the software and if anyone can guide me through the SHO process in GIMP that would be desirable.

The two programs I am considering upgrading to are Astro Pixel Processor and PixInsight. I like the more simplistic flow of APP but need to be sure that SHO processing is possible and I know PI can do everything imaginable but am afraid of getting lost in the maze. Maybe there is another astro program that can process SHO images?

So I'm basically wondering what software everyone is using on their SHO images and how happy they are with it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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mousta avatar
I would really encourage you to use and learn PixInsight. I’m no expert by far, and I was nervous about it too.. but it really becomes simpler the more you understand it. I love it so far and I have produced SHO images with it - not award quality yet as I’m still learning but I’m happy with it. 

AstroDude series on YouTube is amazing to get the overall hang of the software 
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6_eBQy3QM7xISY4Gdz-MmH4rA_1WAG2d

There are also really good videos to do LRGB image processing 
https://youtu.be/GR3j1GXDRr4

Sample ones that I learned a lot for SHO
https://youtu.be/u7FuApFSGuA
https://youtu.be/3kZPm8wRYgQ

You will be able to create the workflow that works best for you and then try more things! 

CS
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Bruce Donzanti avatar
Both APP and PI are very popular and I use both but for different steps in processing an image.  There are lots of excellent videos and several fantastic books on how to use PI.  It has a steep learning curve but you do not need to learn all of its tools to process an image.  APP is less intimidating than PI but does not have all of the bells and whistles that PI has.  Nonetheless, it can also produce great images. 

So, my suggestion is to pick one of them and learn the basics.  Over time, you will realize the benefits of both programs for different uses.   With that said, PI might be better to start learning due to the plethora of resources available.  In addition to the resources already mentioned, I would also check out ‘Mastering Pixinsight’ by Rogelio Bernal Andreo.  His step by step instructions are excellent and his section on narrowband imaging is very easy to follow.  

Best of luck and enjoy learning!!
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SemiPro avatar
I agree, PixInsight is the way to go. Yeah it looks daunting, but I would call it an easy to learn [a basic work flow] but difficult to master kind of thing.
John avatar
ill would go for stacking in APP,it has some  good items  like  different kernels, amd the option to stack  more sharper or with less noise  etc.

For combining its also great,i always combine sho as rgb,and do sulpher in red,sulpher in green and also O3 in green and blue. i use the Ha  as luminance,it gives me good colors.

You can also play easy with the channel sliders,in pixinsight it has to be done  with pixelmath,it is harder to learn.

I really think the reduce lightpolution option in APP is really good.

For the rest i use Pixinsight after combining the channels,the masking is great for it.
Götz Golla avatar
Well, Pixinsight seems to be recommended by everyone. I disagree. I simply recommend Siril for the workflow and rawtherapee for the color processing. Why ? Because it is free and easy for beginners and gives excellent results.  Take a look at my pictures, if you would like to see some examples of color images. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
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Eddie Bagwell avatar
It does seem like the consensus is leaning towards PI.

Mousta I really appreciate the video links, I saved them and will view them tomorrow.

Thank you Bruce for recommending RBA's book "Mastering PI." I checked the reviews and they were all excellent so I ordered the book and reference manual.

PI has a 45 day free trial so I will try that and hopefully make headway using the manual and videos.

Thank you everyone for your responses. If all goes well I will update my Cygnus Wall when I am able to turn it into a SHO image.

Eddie
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Götz Golla avatar
The PixInsight question is a bit like the Windows/Mac/Linux question. Since the majority is using one well-known tool and doesnt know the others, everyone recommends the one that he/she knows. This doesnt mean that it is the best choice for any given situation. PI is a very powerful tool which has a lot of features and functions. It is good because it probably offers your every feature you'll ever want in your astrophotography career. On the other hand, you will likely only use 10% of these features, you will have to spent a lot of time learning to be able to handle PI, and my experience is that PI is not very user friendly and somewhat complicated to use.  Going through this will give you the feeling to be a real expert in image processing, so who wouldnt like to be an expert ?

I started off with PI too, but soon found out that the same basic workflow of calibrating and stacking the images of a night took more than 30 mins in PI, and under 5 minutes in Siril. The workflows in Siril are more streamlined and focused on what you need with modern CMOS cameras, without too many bells and whistles, but still with every feature you need to produce excellent results. Plus Siril is faster itself when processing a lot of data. So I still say that its worth to look at Siril … maybe after going through the somewhat painful PI experience smile

I dont want to start an endless discussion with this contribution, its just one possible point of view based on my personal experience I want to share. Others, of course, have made different experiences, which is absolutely OK !
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James Malone avatar
I would really encourage you to use and learn PixInsight. I’m no expert by far, and I was nervous about it too.. but it really becomes simpler the more you understand it. I love it so far and I have produced SHO images with it - not award quality yet as I’m still learning but I’m happy with it.


This.

I was really wary of trying PixInsight because people said it's so complicated. Yes, it is complicated, but not overwhelmingly so. The videos (and more) have been really helpful for me. I'd say my skill level is clearly 1/10 in PixInsight, but the results are better than what I was able to wrangle in Photoshop and Affinity.

This video shows how to go from mono channels to SHO in ~15 minutes and is what I used today.
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Eddie Bagwell avatar
James Malone, thank you for the PI SHO processing link. Chuck's video was straight to the point, easy to follow, very informative and it lets me add more levels as my experience grows. Exactly what I am looking for.
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Dave B avatar
I’d give Startools a look at free to try for as long as you like you can’t save result but you can screen shot until you buy license which is only about £40 ($60 aus)  when you use the compose mode ie you load each channel separately into Startools when you come to colour module you have an array of colour matrix to use , Hst , HOO , Bi colour an endless list of different colour schemes and easy  and simpler to learn , plenty of info on Startools forum and Ivo Jager will help you with any issues or questions you may have a very helpful man .
Tom Gray avatar
I have only used Startools and as @david burlington says very easy, cost-effective and well supported.
Arun H avatar
PixInsight is only complicated if you expect a workflow similar to Photoshop. I was fortunate I’m not fluent in Photoshop and found PixInsight quite easy to learn. Its workflow is very logical and aligned with how I think. I cannot now imagine processing an Astro photo using any other software.
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Claudio Tenreiro avatar
PixInsight is only complicated if you expect a workflow similar to Photoshop. I was fortunate I’m not being fluent in Photoshop and found PixInsight quite easy to learn. Its workflow is very logical and aligned with how I think. I cannot now imagine processing an Astro photo using any other software.

*It is also was my case, knowing nothing on Ps, and being quite familiar with block programming, PxI becomes natural.
Tom Gray avatar
Russ Carpenter

StarTools keeps getting more and more innovative  for post. On top of that, the developer of StarTools is polite, responsive, and intelligent.

Well said Russ, and so true.  I’m hugely impressed by Ivo and his software is as intelligent and responsive too.
Paul Ecclestone-Brown avatar
Chris woodhouse has produced a rather excellent book that covers loads of challenges including using PI

He has also started to produce some supporting video

the Narrowband from mono video is great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PztNxmHbYxI&t=1125s
Dale Penkala avatar
I’m far from an expert in this subject and certainly still learning all this AP stuff myself. First I’m a big fan of Gimp and all its plugins so I’m with you on that one. I too have wanted to do the different color pallets and when I started playing with a couple different softwares I decided to use APP. I’m using it now and certainly haven’t mastered it yet but it makes sense to me and its very powerful indeed. When I’m done in there I do everything else in Gimp, with the exception of removing stars. (I use Starnet++) 

My plan is to continue to use APP and as I get more comfortable with it and have a really solid workflow I will maybe move to PI just to see how well it works for me. If I like it I’ll get it and hopefully take my pix to the next level. For me APP was a great way to bump up my images from SC & DSS.

Whatever way you decide to go don’t be afraid to ask question here on AB BTW! As you can see there are a lot of people here that have been where you are and are willing to help you find your way to what will make you happy!

CS,
Dale
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Cyril Richard avatar
You have here a tutorial with siril: https://siril.org/tutorials/rgb_composition/
Gamaholjad avatar
Everyone has there options, why don't you simply try them all in free mode you will learn super fast what's best for you. All I will say is have all you data collected before you use them. Cos I can guarantee the time will fly by before you realise it, plus the sky god's will almost destroy your free trial if haven't collected your data first. I personally use pixinsight along with Photoshop. I tried all the free version to guage what was comfortable for me to use.

The end day the more you learn in what ever software will reward you. Plus you can always revisit your data as you learn new tricks etc etc.
Alex avatar
I intend to get PI at some point, but for now I have been using Affinity Photo.  I picked it up when it was on sale for $25 USD.  It looks like it is $55 now.  It's very similar to PhotoShop; however, James Ritson, who is an astrophotographer, worked with them to incorporate some AP features.  It's not a reoccurring payment like PhotoShop either.  It can stack, has a background neutralization feature like some other programs, and if you download James Ritson's macros, which can be free (I tossed him some money out of appreciation because they are really nice and he updates them, too), it can setup your compositions automatically as long as you name your stacked subs appropriately (Ha, SII, OIII, etc.).  It's also completely non-destructive workflow if you desire.  It's a little newer to the AP scene than others, but I have been really happy with it.

One of my main reasons for not getting PI yet, is I still see people saying 'processed in PI and finished in PhotoShop'.  I'm sure not everyone is doing that, but it's nice just using one program.

For reference, my workflow currently is usually 7-10 steps, and only two of them require manual tweaking (Levels Adjust and Remove Background).  The rest are either macros or I have the layer definition saved (i.e. my Selective Color Adjusts have some modified Hubble palettes pre-defined so I just click and it recolors for me, sometimes I add more than 2 to tweak colors based on the data, and sometimes I add a brightness/contrast at the end).

Here's my standard workflow in Affinity Photo post stacking, which I do in Affinity as well.

This workflow belongs to my Pelican Nebula, which wasn't the best data (not much data plus I had bad reflections from Deneb that were more or less eliminated by the remove background).
https://www.astrobin.com/7qxi3y/B/

The same workflow made this image, which is much better data (although it had the moon shining bright for most of it):
https://www.astrobin.com/1vgpe8/B/

The nice thing about the non-destructive workflow is I can go back, turn a layer on or off, or change the selective color palette swap at will to change the look of the image.  Once you find a palette that works for you, then you can save it as a custom layer and add it.  I'm sure some of the other programs can do similar, but having used PhotoShop in the past, Affinity Photo had essentially zero learning curve.

Edit:  I used this to make some of my original Selective Color Adjustment custom layers: http://bf-astro.com/hubblep.htm
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Tim Ulama avatar
I agree with Alex. I bought Affinity Photo a few years ago and they kept implementing new features. One of the last updates seems to be aimed towards astrophotography and combined with James Ritsons Macros Affinity Photo provides a nice all-in-one solution.

He also provides a lot of image processing tutorials on his youtube-channel:

How to use my JR Astrophotography Macros for Affinity Photo
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Jonathan Clark avatar
I'm fairly new to AP and have been using GIMP to process all of my current astro images. I use DSS to stack. I just recently switched to a mono camera (asi294mm Pro) and collected my first set of SHO subs but having a difficult time processing them in GIMP to produce a nice hubble SHO image. I can't seem to produce the golds and blues so it may be time to upgrade my software to achieve the desired results. I would like to stay with GIMP because I am familiar with the software and if anyone can guide me through the SHO process in GIMP that would be desirable.

The two programs I am considering upgrading to are Astro Pixel Processor and PixInsight. I like the more simplistic flow of APP but need to be sure that SHO processing is possible and I know PI can do everything imaginable but am afraid of getting lost in the maze. Maybe there is another astro program that can process SHO images?

So I'm basically wondering what software everyone is using on their SHO images and how happy they are with it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I thoroughly recommend using PixInsight and using the SHO-AIP script. You will also need Keller's book: Inside Pixinsight to explain how to use that script (and lots of other things). I also tend to finish off using Adobe Photoshop in the final stages.

Jonathan
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James avatar
I can't seem to produce the golds and blues


I use PI.. it's what I am comfortable with.

However..

To get the gold/blue colors from a SHO image you want to pull back on the green.  Some people remove all the green from a SHO image.. but I prefer leaving some green in there.

I'm not familiar with gimp.. but if its got some way to adjust curves on separate color channels.. you should be able to do this without having to switch software.  The concepts behind color manipulation is the same, regardless of software.
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