Orfanidisharis avatar
Hello Guys,

This is the stretched TIFF of M16.I took it the last week.As you can see i have problem with the focus and i do not Know what i am missing.

HEQ5
SW 150PDS
ASI585MC PRO (L EXTREME ALWAYS ON)
COMMA CORRECTOR OF SW

I HAVE CHECKED::
THE BACKFOCUS TO BE 56MM
THE OPTICS IN CASE OF BEING PINCHED

WHAT I AM THINKING::
BETTER GUIDING
CUT DOWN THE FOCUS RACK

PLEASE TELL ME YOUR THOUGHTS​​​​​​​
Jens avatar
Is it maybe possible that the focus slides back during your session? is the fist image the same or better than the last one? 
I had the same, when the weight of my camera was to heavy for the focuser.
Orfanidisharis avatar
Hmm I see.

I would say that the problem is before starting the shooting.

I feel that when i am focusing before shooting the focus is a bit off so its not slide while I shooting 🫤
Christian Großmann avatar
I agree with @Jens . The same happened to me more than once. But how are you focusing? Do you focus manually or use software or any other method? It looks to me as if you have the same problems as me when I started AP. I bought me a Bahtinov mask which helped a lot.

The optical things seems to be ok so far. The back focus distance is ok. You will see the difference only in the corners of the image. Yours look fine. Collimation seems also to be ok. The image itself seems to be out of focus everywhere, which assumes you might just have missed the focal point by a bit. The star spikes are quite faint, which proofs my opinion. They should be much brighter on the bigger stars.

If the guiding is problematic, the stars are usually elongated in some way. Yours are round. So I think, there is no major issue with your setup at all. Just tighten the right screw on the focuser so the camera can not slip and make sure, you absolutely nailed the right spot of sharpness.

CS
Christian
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Orfanidisharis avatar
First of all thank you for your answer 

BOTH OF YOU

now,I will cry all night long if this is the reason why I lose my focus.

the truth is that I am focusing manually.(I want to upgrade to EAF but this is not possible right now.)

I am going back and forth until I have minimize the focus.


when I am doing this,some small stars are out of focus always no matter what.
this is the reason why I am thinking about it 2 weeks now!(barely I can’t sleep anymore)
Christian Großmann avatar
This is where the Bahtinov mask comes in. I built my first one out of cardboard myself. This worked as a first try. Focusing just by eye is usually not good enough. If you are trained, then it might work. So the mask will help you a lot.

You have to refocus after a while. Depending on where your Newton points to, the camera is always pulling on the focuser. I used a filter wheel and a heavy coma corrector as well, which is even worse. Depending on the temperature, your tube might change its length during the night. This changes the focus point as well. So it is good practice to refocus after a while.

But you are on the right way… it's just the learning curve smile
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Marc-Antonio Fischer avatar
Is that a raw image? It looks like you have already did something to the stars. I mean its not total unsharp. Can you send a single image and a raw stack?
I know that many newtonians (mine included) got bad tubeseeing. Means that the air inside takes forever to get out. Especially when imaging something like that target low on the horizon. This is visable as elongated stars. A extrem case is that image:
Orfanidisharis avatar
I forgot to mention I use batiknov mask

i will show just 2 different nebulas (Sadr area and bubble).its just 1 frame.its in focus…but its not at focus at the same time.there is a blur
Orfanidisharis avatar
Marc-Antonio Fischer:
Is that a raw image? It looks like you have already did something to the stars. I mean its not total unsharp. Can you send a single image and a raw stack?
I know that many newtonians (mine included) got bad tubeseeing. Means that the air inside takes forever to get out. Especially when imaging something like that target low on the horizon. This is visable as elongated stars. A extrem case is that image:



I just put 1frame shots!!can you see it please?
Christian Großmann avatar
On the Sadr image, you have a tracking issue. The small stars are elongated. This is bad tracking or your balance of the scope might be a bit off and it swings.

The second image looks better to me. But it's hard to tell if there is a bit of movement in the stars or if there are some abberations. How long is the exposure time? A small amount of loss in sharpness might be due to the seeing.
Well Written Helpful
Orfanidisharis avatar
I CANNOT REMEMBER TO BE HONEST 30'' - 1'
Christian Großmann avatar
So then I am still thinking, you just need a bit more practice to focus. I always have some frames with tracking issues. Especially with a heavier scope like a Newton. Maybe you just picked one of those frames as example. Just give it another try. Now your senses are sharpened smile
Jens avatar
That definetly looks like bad tracking, maybe try reducing exposure time or try to fix the tracking. 
If you're using the asi air, maybe take a screenshot of the guiding settings.

It does look like it is fixable, so don't  worry to much and take a breather smile 

Maybe you can upload some raw photos via wetransfer so we can take a look at them, that could help too.
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andrea tasselli avatar
I do think I suggested to check your focus and whatever other issues there might be by shooting the area around polaris, ideally the NP by switching of tracking and exposing for no more than a few (5) seconds and then maybe stacking a few frames although one might suffice.
Marc-Antonio Fischer avatar
Not sure, looks like tracking issue, but also like a tilt. You use the standard SW 150PDS clamp? It always causes tilt, thats why the stars are looking different in very single night.
Orfanidisharis avatar
YES,BUT I RELAXED THE SCREWS JUST A BIT
Orfanidisharis avatar
One last thought guys.one last thought.

What if…I have to upper the primary mirror a bit up?

right now the focuser is almost all in (2-4mm before goes all in)

So,is the lift of the primary my ultimate solution??
Jens avatar
Did you modifiy the 150pds at all? If not, I don't think that should be an issue. If you put a bhatinov mask on, if you can get it in focus, you should be fine on that front. If not you can't get it into focus, then this could maybe be a solution.
Orfanidisharis avatar
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Christian Großmann avatar
Jens:
Did you modifiy the 150pds at all? If not, I don't think that should be an issue.

Kind of...

There may be an issue, but it is not related to the problems in your images. If the Primary is too far away from the secondary, the focuser needs to be closer to the tube (which seems to be the case). So the tube of the focuser or the coma corrector might get in the light path and cause additional diffractions. This is a common problem on cheaper Newts and a thing you want to avoid. So look at the tube and if the focuser gets into the light path, you might reposition your primary. That's not a big deal. Just screw in the adjustment screws half the distance you want to shift the focuser if possible (light passes the tube twice - in and out again - so half the distance).

However, @Jens  is right. This may not cause the problems that are discussed initially in this thread.
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Oscar avatar
in my opinion, if you're as young as I think you are, I think you should be happy with the quality of your images

I can recommend 4 things for you:

1. try to get your hands on an EAF; it'll make your life easier
2. never cry for a telescope and have patience when things don't work out
3. check your collimation
4. be sure that your primary mirror clips are not overly tight, but not loose either; I heard another guy had star flaring like that because a clip was too tight

CS, good luck
Supportive
Orfanidisharis avatar
About that,yesterday I tried the telescope again (I have slept 3 hours…again.) and I screenshot a lot of things for you 
as you can see,I can see the tube on my donut
Oscar avatar
and yes, make sure nothing besides your spider vanes is protruding into the light path, which could cause diffraction

although I don't think this is a diffraction problem, because if it was, then I think the flare should also be mirrored on the other side of the star
Oscar avatar
ooooh, just saw your image

that's not good; your focus tube is protruding

I still don't think that can cause sharp flaring like what you showed before; I think the flaring would be more diffuse

I still think it's a pinched mirror from tight clip(s) causing the sharp flare
Christian Großmann avatar
About that,yesterday I tried the telescope again (I have slept 3 hours…again.) and I screenshot a lot of things for you 
as you can see,I can see the tube on my donut

Yep, so you might want to move the primary. But I still think your sharpness issues are mostly related to exact focusing. The last things that were written will improve image quality, but the basic stuff should work in the first place.