Does anyone have this mount? It is my understanding that during polar alignment, the numbers don't change when you lock it down. Also, that it is a very capable, high capacity mount. I want one. Available towards the end of June from AgenaAstro. It is compatible with the tripod adapters of the AM5. I have the AM5 and due to the changing numbers when you lock it down, I hate it. I dread PA with the AM5. Did I mention that I hate it?
WarpAstron WD20 Mount
Just curious; how much these "numbers" change when you lock the mount down?
I do not recognize this issue at all with my AM5 on the TC40/PE200. The first couple of nights it was a bit of a change from the old mount, but I'm in the opposite corner. I love doing PA with it as it takes me all of five minutes from carrying it out until I'm starting a session.
andrea tasselli:
Just curious; how much these "numbers" change when you lock the mount down?
If the mount shows to be 20" below Alt and I just tighten it down, it may be as much as 30" to 1' above 'on point'. I then have to loosen the knobs, see where it winds up (which will then be way out) and basically start over with Alt. I don't know if you suffer this, but I can point to many, many people who experience the same thing. I find that if I gradually tighten the knobs, then I can ease it up, tighten a little, ease it up some more, tighten, ease, etc. But if it goes over (for instance 15") the desired position (as close to zero as possible), then I have to loosen it and start over with it. The video reviews on the WD-20 make it a point to note that, while it happens on an AM5, it doesn't happen in the least on the WD-20.
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DavesView:
Does anyone have this mount? It is my understanding that during polar alignment, the numbers don't change when you lock it down. Also, that it is a very capable, high capacity mount. I want one. Available towards the end of June from AgenaAstro. It is compatible with the tripod adapters of the AM5. I have the AM5 and due to the changing numbers when you lock it down, I hate it. I dread PA with the AM5. Did I mention that I hate it?
I've seen it in a local store here (artesky.it) it's a pretty sturdy mount a looks promising. It has a couple of things that you need to set up in the software (wrong time limits that make the mount doing weird things while meridian flip) but it's just options to setup (and it may be aldready fixend in new firmware versions).
It's damn silent. You can't really hear it moving. Never.
I hope to get one to test soon.
I do not recognize this issue at all with my AM5 on the TC40/PE200. The first couple of nights it was a bit of a change from the old mount, but I'm in the opposite corner. I love doing PA with it as it takes me all of five minutes from carrying it out until I'm starting a session.
What RMS are you shooting for? I'm shooting for <10". Last night, I hit zero and didn't wait around, but it took me 10 minutes to get there.
Engaging
Seems a bit over the top for an expensive mount. The shifts I get on the crappiest mount of mine is much less than that. The newer the worse it appears.
My AM5 has been a breeze to PA. I typically aim for under 1 arc min. When you get close to your PA, start tightening the knobs slightly but not all the way. Enough to allow you to make small adjustments. Then lock when you fine tuned it. Works well for me.
Concise
Ashraf AbuSara:
My AM5 has been a breeze to PA. I typically aim for under 1 arc min. When you get close to your PA, start tightening the knobs slightly but not all the way. Enough to allow you to make small adjustments. Then lock when you fine tuned it. Works well for me.
I can easily get to under 1'. That's not good enough. I shoot for under 10".
DavesView:
What RMS are you shooting for? I'm shooting for <10". Last night, I hit zero and didn't wait around, but it took me 10 minutes to get there.
What focal length are you needing less than 10" for? The past year I've mostly been using a 4" refractor so no need to be too meticulous about it, but usually I get 20" without trying. I've had less than 10" more than a few times but it's not something I specifically go for as I carry it in and out between sessions mostly.
I upgraded from an HEQ5 so I find this mount very smooth. Like you I start fully open, one axis at a time, and then there's only some fine adjustments on the first axis to finish it off where I don't fully loosen the knobs. I don't push the knobs hard to lock them.
One more thing, I image from a very stable ground. I've tried the lawn and a wooden deck but there's just too much movement if it's not frozen (lots of moisture in the soil). My weight will then affect the adjustments I make, as much as 1-2'.
As long as seeing permits it I have guiding RMS at 20-30". We'll see when I pull out the SCT next season if I get a different experience with the big boy scope.
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DavesView:
What RMS are you shooting for? I'm shooting for <10". Last night, I hit zero and didn't wait around, but it took me 10 minutes to get there.
What focal length are you needing less than 10" for? The past year I've mostly been using a 4" refractor so no need to be too meticulous about it, but usually I get 20" without trying. I've had less than 10" more than a few times but it's not something I specifically go for as I carry it in and out between sessions mostly.
I upgraded from an HEQ5 so I find this mount very smooth. Like you I start fully open, one axis at a time, and then there's only some fine adjustments on the first axis to finish it off where I don't fully loosen the knobs. I don't push the knobs hard to lock them.
One more thing, I image from a very stable ground. I've tried the lawn and a wooden deck but there's just too much movement if it's not frozen (lots of moisture in the soil). My weight will then affect the adjustments I make, as much as 1-2'.
As long as seeing permits it I have guiding RMS at 20-30". We'll see when I pull out the SCT next season if I get a different experience with the big boy scope.
I haven't chosen the numbers I shoot for based on the scope I'm using, but rather what's the best RMS I can achieve, regardless of the scope. The largest scope I currently use is an FLT91, so 3.58".
DavesView:Ashraf AbuSara:
My AM5 has been a breeze to PA. I typically aim for under 1 arc min. When you get close to your PA, start tightening the knobs slightly but not all the way. Enough to allow you to make small adjustments. Then lock when you fine tuned it. Works well for me.
I can easily get to under 1'. That's not good enough. I shoot for under 10".
That's the problem then, not the AM5. Not sure why you think you need to get it down to under 10". 10 arc seconds PA is absolutely not necessary for the AM5. Under 1 arc minute is "good enough" for every possible setup you have on the AM5. I have been using a C11 at a focal length of 2065mm on the AM5, and could get my guiding error on that 38lb payload on many occasions to 0.3 to 0.4". If your guiding is poor, and your PA is under 1', then you need to worry about other issues.
https://www.astrobin.com/yyqx04/C/
https://www.astrobin.com/5a5d7v/C/
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Ashraf AbuSara:
If your guiding is poor, and your PA is under 1', then you need to worry about other issues.
I didn't say my guiding is poor. On a very clear night, I can get very low numbers and average .50" total RMS, or less for long periods of time... hours. What I said is, I hate the PA on the AM5. Hence my reasoning for a good look at the WD-20. Also, the payload capacity for the WD-20 is up to 44 lbs. without a weight, 60 lbs. with a weight, but that is a secondary reason. My main reason is, I hate PA on an AM5.
By the way, I'm really interested in the WD-20. Has anyone had any experience with this mount?
Well Written Engaging
DavesView:Ashraf AbuSara:
If your guiding is poor, and your PA is under 1', then you need to worry about other issues.
Achieving a low RMS is a problem? In what world? I didn't say my guiding is poor. On a very clear night, I can get very low numbers and average .50" total RMS, or less for long periods of time... hours. What I said is, I hate the PA on the AM5. Hence my reasoning for a good look at the WD-20. Also, the payload capacity for the WD-20 is up to 44 lbs. without a weight, 60 lbs. with a weight, but that is a secondary reason. My main reason is, I hate PA on an AM5.
You said you can easily get a PA of under 1' with the AM5, and then claimed that was not "good enough", which is why you "hate PA" with the AM5. What exactly are you trying to achieve with a PA of under 10" on the AM5? Why is a PA under 10" good enough? Why not go for 5"? 1"?
This hobby is frustrating enough, but it seems some are artificially making it more frustrating by chasing numbers that have no material benefit towards their actual goal.
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Ashraf AbuSara:
What exactly are you trying to achieve with a PA of under 10"
Answer: A low total RMS.
I am looking at getting the WD-20 mount and would like to use my EQ6R Tripod with the extension. Does anyone know what I need, as far as adapters, to mount it to my tripod? TIA !
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David Schaeffer:
I am looking at getting the WD-20 mount and would like to use my EQ6R Tripod with the extension. Does anyone know what I need, as far as adapters, to mount it to my tripod? TIA !
The WD-20 is supposedly compatible with all AM5 tripod and accessories. I have an AM5 mounted on an EQ6 tripod with the tall pier extension. The adapter you need to change the tripod to HEQ5 (the AM5 pier extension fits HEQ5 tripod) is a Geoptik HEQ5 adapter, part number 30A230. I ordered one and had it in my hands in about 4 or 5 days. I think it comes from Italy, but I had it quicker than I can get something from California to here in Florida. The shipping was about $25 or $30, so less than a hundred total. See the orange adapter between the pier extension and the tripod. One other note if you are located in the US, the credit card company kept flagging the transaction as fraud. I finally used my debit card, but the credit union had to put my card on travel notice and it went through. PITA
https://www.geoptik.com/en/prodotto/heq5-adapter/
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Ashraf AbuSara:
This hobby is frustrating enough, but it seems some are artificially making it more frustrating by chasing numbers that have no material benefit towards their actual goal.
The one point I think you are missing here is that the end result is not the entire goal. The goal(s) are found in many different aspects of the hobby and one of them is the mechanics of it all. Just as you want perfection in your images, I want a level of perfection in the mechanics of it. I've seen your images and they are absolutely 1st rate, much better than mine... but that's not all there is to this. If the only goal in food was the act of swallowing it, wouldn't eating be a boring thing indeed?
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If your end goal is in the numbers then why don't you consider this option: https://www.avalon-instruments.com/products-menu/accessories/universal-polar-alignment-system-detail
If your end goal is in the numbers then why don't you consider this option: https://www.avalon-instruments.com/products-menu/accessories/universal-polar-alignment-system-detail
Because I'm considering this one: https://www.warpastron.com/2023/12/07/wd-20-harmonic-drive-mount/?lang=en
And I didn't say that was my end goal. Note, the word used was goal(s).
DavesView:
Because I'm considering this one: https://www.warpastron.com/2023/12/07/wd-20-harmonic-drive-mount/?lang=en
And I didn't say that was my end goal. Note, the word used was goal(s), or are you suggesting there can only be one goal and I have to pick?
I wasn't suggesting anything other than a tool to help you achieve what you're specifically trying to do regularly, albeit not the one you've mentioned but I found it noteworthy enough to bring up as it would suit you perfectly imo.
You clearly seem very concerned with low RMS, so pardon me for assuming this was your end goal. It sure comes off as it is, despite the wording "goal(s)".
DavesView:
Because I'm considering this one: https://www.warpastron.com/2023/12/07/wd-20-harmonic-drive-mount/?lang=en
And I didn't say that was my end goal. Note, the word used was goal(s), or are you suggesting there can only be one goal and I have to pick?
I wasn't suggesting anything other than a tool to help you achieve what you're specifically trying to do regularly, albeit not the one you've mentioned but I found it noteworthy enough to bring up as it would suit you perfectly imo.
You clearly seem very concerned with low RMS, so pardon me for assuming this was your end goal. It sure comes off as it is, despite the wording "goal(s)".
That seems like a great solution for my remote setup that I am planning.
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Ashraf AbuSara:
That seems like a great solution for my remote setup that I am planning.
I found an 18 page thread on this mount at Cloudy Nights. Seems there are some bugs yet to be worked out. I've got time before I pull the trigger on my next mount, so I'll be watching the thread. It's a promising solution, but bugs bug me. One plus point is Agena Astro is a vendor and I've known them to be an excellent choice for customer support. If Woodland Hills doesn't have it, I look to Agena.
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Jan Erik Vallestad:
You clearly seem very concerned with low RMS, so pardon me for assuming this was your end goal. It sure comes off as it is, despite the wording "goal(s)".
OK! So my apologies for ramping this discussion up. As you might notice, I edited the post as a second thought on wording, but apparently not before you replied to it. Of course the end goal should probably be the final product, which is the image. The saying, the proof is in the pudding, and the image is the pudding. So I get it and again, my apologies. Maybe a low RMS is not important, or required, but I like it. Besides, if you see my images, you'll know there has got to be something else keeping me in this hobby. lol
Respectful
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