New camera zwo 462mc - Forums

Topic starter

Jul 20, 2021

Hello,
pleased to see such amazing planetary pictures and trying to improve mines.
i have a C11 and recently adquired a zwo 462mc camera and taking my first steps. Previously taking pictures with flip mirror, philips toucam pro and televue barlow x2. Good results but trying to improve, After many attemps with firecapture, SC11, Zwo 462mc with Baader IR cut filter and barlow x2 with Moon, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn and with astrostakkert and registax, blurry results. I tried with debayered videos and non debayered videos from firecapture, same results. Using barlow x2 is too much magnification? . The zoom in firecapture is affecting to quality record or it is only to see the image details better in the screen of the pc?.
Thank you for your help.

andrea tasselli

Frequent contributor

Jul 20, 2021 · Edited: Jul 20, 2021

Collimation and seeing are critical to operate a large aperture at such a high image scale. I'd suggest you try your hand first without the barlow (using the ASI camera you basically doubled the image scale already) and see how things go. Normally I look how the planet look like with an EP and high resolution (at least 300x) before committing time to acquisition. If the seeing is crap I won't waste my time.

As far as I remember firecapture zoom does not change the captured .ser file resolution (which is set by the camera controls).

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jcac68

Topic starter

Jul 20, 2021

Thank you very much indeed. I will try without barlow and check collimation. It is true that the seeing was not very good and as you explain, with the toucam this issue could have been less relevant. Thanks again

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jcac68

Topic starter

Jul 21, 2021

andrea tasselli:
Collimation and seeing are critical to operate a large aperture at such a high image scale. I'd suggest you try your hand first without the barlow (using the ASI camera you basically doubled the image scale already) and see how things go. Normally I look how the planet look like with an EP and high resolution (at least 300x) before committing time to acquisition. If the seeing is crap I won't waste my time.

As far as I remember firecapture zoom does not change the captured .ser file resolution (which is set by the camera controls).

*Hello Andrea, last night I tested without barlow and very good results with Saturn and Jupiter. One example here not fully optimized.
Thank you very much indeed.
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jcac68

Topic starter

Aug 24, 2021 · Edited: Aug 24, 2021

Dear all,

I did the collimation of my C11 and I have been trying to improve my images ( no barlow) and after several weeks with my new zwo 462mc and different seeings, I am afraid I am doing something wrong. Below you can see the results after astrostakkert ( Laplace 5, double stack reference, 55% of images, normalize stack 75, sharpened 25%, no RGB align, no close to edge, no multiscale ) from a video with these parameters:

Location: Galapagar ( 36 kms from Madrid) Spain
Camera=ZWO ASI462MC
Filter=L
Profile=saturn 2
Diameter=49.05"
Magnitude=-2.87
CMI=88.5° CMII=241.2° CMIII=65.2° (during mid of capture)
FocalLength=1700mm
Resolution=0.35"
Filename=saturn 2_013826_Gain=291(off)_Exposure=10.0ms_Gamma=51_220821.ser
Date=220821
Start=013754.145
Mid=013826.852
End=013859.559
Start(UT)=233754.145
Mid(UT)=233826.852
End(UT)=233859.559
Duration=65.414s
Date_format=ddMMyy
Time_format=HHmmss
LT=UT +1h
Frames captured=6533
File type=SER
Binning=no
ROI=600x400
ROI(Offset)=0x0
FPS (avg.)=99
Shutter=10.00ms
Gain=291 (48%)
WBlue=92 (off)
WRed=63 (off)
AutoGain=off
AutoHisto=75 (off)
HighSpeed=off
AutoExposure=off
Gamma=51
Brightness=0 (off)
FPS=407 (off)
USBTraffic=100 (off)
SoftwareGain=10 (off)
Histogramm(min)=0
Histogramm(max)=184
Histogramm=72%
Noise(avg.deviation)=n/a
Limit=none
Sensor temperature=31.4°C

These are the two images that astrostackkert gives as results:

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Please, what am I doing wrong?

Thank you very much indeed in advance.

andrea tasselli

Frequent contributor

Aug 24, 2021

I suspect seeing is the issue there. And there is no way you can improve upon that. I suggest you take a short video of a bright star, in focus, to see what kind of seeing you have and maybe report back.

astropical

Aug 25, 2021

Hello jcac68,

The 462MC is a fine camera and your settings are looking good.
This the best result I can process with your AS!3 output (unsharpened) using Registax6 wavelets and Photoshop:

Thin clouds or haze in addition to poor seeing is the likely cause.
Large scopes do not only gather more light but also more turbulences.

When seeing is poor stacking 55% can be too much. I usually go for 10 to 20%.

Cheers,
Robert

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psychwolf

Aug 25, 2021 · Edited: Aug 25, 2021

One thing I love about the camera is that it quickly plugs in as a 1.25" eyepiece basically, so I can have a visual session and plop in the camera to capture 2min data. It's done well on the Moon for me with the Astronomik ProPlanet 804 IR-pass filter - leaving my improvement focus in other areas:

Waxing Crescent Moon - March 21, 2021

But I'm bad with planets so far. Here's some data I took recently with a 810mm doublet, same camera - any advice for cleaning this up in the future? Part of the issue may just be focal length and seeing - so perhaps different issues than OP. However, as I've not used Registax6 - @astropical what process do you run the AS!3 data through in Registax6, and how much PS work do you typically apply? That Saturn above is a lot clearer than my first shot turned out:

Saturn at Opposition, Aug 2, 2021

And also recently, of Jupiter:

Jupiter and moons, Aug 22, 2021

Anyway - same camera here too so I'm curious to get some tips. Recent settings for that Jupiter shot from Sharpcap. Outputs into AS!3, then went to sharpening and PS work:

[ZWO ASI462MC]
Debayer Preview=On
Pan=696
Tilt=274
Output Format=SER file (*.ser)
Binning=1
Capture Area=544x548
Colour Space=RAW16
Temperature=27
High Speed Mode=On
Turbo USB=100(Auto)
Flip=None
Frame Rate Limit=Maximum
Gain=425
Exposure=0.000192
Timestamp Frames=On
White Bal (B)=81
White Bal (R)=46
Brightness=52
Auto Exp Max Gain=300
Auto Exp Max Exp M S=30000
Auto Exp Target Brightness=100
Mono Bin=Off
Banding Threshold=35
Banding Suppression=0
Apply Flat=None
Subtract Dark=None
#Black Point
Display Black Point=0
#MidTone Point
Display MidTone Point=0.5
#White Point
Display White Point=1
Notes=
TimeStamp=2021-08-23T04:04:08.8068287Z
SharpCapVersion=3.2.6480.0

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jcac68

Topic starter

Aug 25, 2021

Hello jcac68,

The 462MC is a fine camera and your settings are looking good.
This the best result I can process with your AS!3 output (unsharpened) using Registax6 wavelets and Photoshop:

Thin clouds or haze in addition to poor seeing is the likely cause.
Large scopes do not only gather more light but also more turbulences.

When seeing is poor stacking 55% can be too much. I usually go for 10 to 20%.

Cheers,
Robert

* Hello @astropical ,
thank you very much indeed for your helpful advices. The quality of your processed image is similar to mines so I agree with you this is not the issue but the video. By now I am not using my televue barlow x2 that I used with my old phillips toucam pro because I am afraid that is such magnification that any seeing issue will be a huge problem. With this pixel size and focal lenght , is it neccesary to use bining with or without barlow?
here another example of Copernicus after processing with astrostakkert and registax
#

Thank you very much. Cheers

jcac68

Topic starter

Aug 25, 2021

andrea tasselli:
I suspect seeing is the issue there. And there is no way you can improve upon that. I suggest you take a short video of a bright star, in focus, to see what kind of seeing you have and maybe report back.

*thank you very much indeed Andrea. Cheers

astropical

Aug 26, 2021

Hello @jcac68,

The focal length of your C11 is long enough for nice close-up views of the lunar surface, in that I recommend to make the first steps without a barlow (no binning for the time being).

My rule of thumb regarding pixel resolution is 5 x camera pixel size, hence 5 x 2.9 ≈f15. Therefore, I almost always use a 1.6x barlow at the most. The limit is the optical resolution power of your telescope anyway. Also, of high significance is accurate focus.

Best luck with seeing and please enjoy!
CheerS,
Robert

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astropical

Aug 26, 2021

Hello @psychwolf

Though planetary imaging benefits from long FL and wide aperture, crisp refractors can astound.

Your camera gain is a bit too high in terms of noise risk, color balance needs attention, raw8 color space will do (smaller files, sometimes faster fps).

A single SER/AVI video of fast rotating Jupiter should not exceed 90 seconds in length (depending on FL).

I stack in AS!3, sharpen using wavelets in Registax6, then in PS, a high pass filter (blended in soft light some 50% opacity), minor tweaks if need be.

Yet, nothing beats accurate focus and good seeing. When two AP'ers meet they say, "good seeing you".

CheerS, Robert

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psychwolf

Aug 26, 2021

Hello @psychwolf

Though planetary imaging benefits from long FL and wide aperture, crisp refractors can astound.

Your camera gain is a bit too high in terms of noise risk, color balance needs attention, raw8 color space will do (smaller files, sometimes faster fps).

A single SER/AVI video of fast rotating Jupiter should not exceed 90 seconds in length (depending on FL).

I stack in AS!3, sharpen using wavelets in Registax6, then in PS, a high pass filter (blended in soft light some 50% opacity), minor tweaks if need be.

Yet, nothing beats accurate focus and good seeing. When two AP'ers meet they say, "good seeing you".

CheerS, Robert

Thanks that's just the kind of constructive advice I was looking for - thanks for the assist! This is going right into the processing folder for ref. next time with my other notes :-)

Pieter Vuylsteke

Aug 26, 2021

Hello @psychwolf

Though planetary imaging benefits from long FL and wide aperture, crisp refractors can astound.

Your camera gain is a bit too high in terms of noise risk, color balance needs attention, raw8 color space will do (smaller files, sometimes faster fps).

A single SER/AVI video of fast rotating Jupiter should not exceed 90 seconds in length (depending on FL).

I stack in AS!3, sharpen using wavelets in Registax6, then in PS, a high pass filter (blended in soft light some 50% opacity), minor tweaks if need be.

Yet, nothing beats accurate focus and good seeing. When two AP'ers meet they say, "good seeing you".

CheerS, Robert

Hi,

I see the gain indicated is 293, shutter is 10.00ms
My question is : if lowering gain, one may be obliged to make longer the timing of the shutter.

Are there any rules/considerations about these two ? Too high gain -> too much noise, too long the shutter speed -> more seeing problems ?

Pieter.

jcac68

Topic starter

Aug 27, 2021

Dear all
Last night finally good seeing. Tried many different settings with Saturn , Zwo ADC and even Barlow x2. As all of you said the issue was the seeing. Below two images processed wth astrostakkert and registax.
For Saturn :
Camera=ZWO ASI462MC
Filter=L
Profile=saturn 2
Diameter=48.98"
Magnitude=-2.87
CMI=97.0° CMII=212.1° CMIII=37.4° (during mid of capture)
FocalLength=1400mm
Resolution=0.43"
Filename=2021-08-26-2157_3-L-saturn 2_Gain=345(off)_Exposure=8.6ms_Gamma=45(off).ser
Date=260821
Start=235622.412
Mid=235723.097
End=235823.782
Start(UT)=215622.412
Mid(UT)=215723.097
End(UT)=215823.782
Duration=121.370s
Date_format=ddMMyy
Time_format=HHmmss
LT=UT +1h
Frames captured=6137
File type=SER
Binning=no
ROI=600x400
ROI(Offset)=0x0
FPS (avg.)=50
Shutter=8.614ms
Gain=345 (57%)
HighSpeed=off
WBlue=99 (off)
AutoExposure=off
SoftwareGain=10 (off)
Brightness=0 (off)
AutoGain=off
USBTraffic=100 (off)
Gamma=45 (off)
WRed=62 (off)
AutoHisto=75 (off)
FPS=510
Histogramm(min)=0
Histogramm(max)=189
Histogramm=74%
Noise(avg.deviation)=n/a
Limit=180 Seconds
Sensor temperature=29.6°

I tried also with a Televue Barlow x 2 but bad results , probably better seeing is needed. In conclusion as all of you told me , seeing is critical with this FL and settings depend on the seeing.

Thank you very much indeed and awaiting for better seeing and will try with these and also new settings.

Cheers
#

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