Remote Turn On/Off - Forums

Are there alternatives to the MPG Box for remote turn on/off of this mount, or is this the best option available?

I wonder why 10Micron requires this intervening device instead of just using a remote AC power switch like the WPS?

Jerry

I don't know of anything else and neither does Tolga. He's quizzed the 10Micron folks about this but hasn't ever gotten a good answer. I'm sure someone who is handy could put together something that does this, but why? For 200 bucks, with the MGPBox you get something specifically made for your $10,000 mount that turns it on and off, provides GPS data, provides refraction data, and comes with a decent little app. Of all the many, many issues I've had with my remote gear, my MGPBox units have never been on the list–nor have any of my three 10Micron mounts. They just work.

I've used a simple network-based relay switch. KMTronic do one - but there are many others. Much less expensive.

I couldn’t find better. I also switch off entire line by using remote web switch.
CS!

AnaTa

Hi Jerry - if you look and search on the 10 Micron forum you will find references to the 10 Micron Mount Protocol and you can use this to write simple command scripts to power off the mount (among many other functions). The mount firmware accepts WOL packets and you can switch the mount on/off using only software. The free utility for mount modelling MountWizzard uses mount protocol commands within its interface to control many features of the mount.
Hope that helps.
Barry

Timothy Martin:
I don't know of anything else and neither does Tolga. He's quizzed the 10Micron folks about this but hasn't ever gotten a good answer. I'm sure someone who is handy could put together something that does this, but why? For 200 bucks, with the MGPBox you get something specifically made for your $10,000 mount that turns it on and off, provides GPS data, provides refraction data, and comes with a decent little app. Of all the many, many issues I've had with my remote gear, my MGPBox units have never been on the list--nor have any of my three 10Micron mounts. They just work.

Great, I'll order it today..

Thanks Timothy

Any relay that you can tell to close for a second or two can be used to turn it on. I use the Dragonfly for it.
To turn it off, you can send the shutdown# command to the mount's IP-address. Free software called Packetsender can do that. Details are here, including how to automate this with Voyager. But any software with a proper sequencer can probably do the same, so I guess NINA could do the same.

Willem Jan.

Hi guys,

i don't mean to sound confused, but I am confused. My 10Micron 1000GM has been installed in the remote site. I have a Digital Loggers Web Power Switch and the mount plugged into it. But I was told that I can't just turn the mount off and on from my browser (connected to the WPS) though I don't understand why not.

I also have the MGP box and it has a button called "Pulse" which apparently turns the mount on and off. But as far as I can tell, there's no indication in the MGP software as to whether the mount is actually on or off.

In NINA there's also an option to turn the mount on and off, but it only works relative to the pulse button on the MGP software, sometimes it works in NINA and sometimes it doesn't.

What is the best and simplest way to power up and power down this mount without having to use 3 different apps to do it? That makes no sense…

Thanks!
Jerry

I also operate 10 micron remotely.
I use MGBox. Connect it to controller using pin-cable that came with 10 micron. When you open MGBox app, it will have “Pulse” button on the right. Push it switches on mount, push again and mount is switched off. Importantly, you need to get MG Box V2.
So far, it worked flawlessly.

All the best!

Armen

To turn the mount on/off and having a visual confirmation I recommend MountWizard.

If you only want to turn it on/off remotely you can use the MGPBox SW. But you have no indicator whether it is on or off.
Shutting down is no problem. Almost any tool can do it. Even with virtual Handpad. But never just turn off AC! Sooner or later you run into serious issues.

Turning on is the more challenging part. Either WOL or MGPBox. I have requested at 10M to implement in one of the next FW „Boot on power resume“ but this will take some time - as usual.
But basically, as already mentioned above, you can use any solution which closes a relays for a second. E.g. a RasPi or an Adurino. The 3.5 jack is basically identical to a power button of a usual PC. When you press it, the PC starts. The contact is parallel to the built in boot button.

CS
Rüdiger

I use the MGPBox Pulse button, Jerry. I then wait about 30 seconds and try to connect the virtual keypad software. If it connects, the mount is on. Then I just leave the mount on pretty much all the time. I might power cycle it every week or two just to clear any software cobwebs. But even that may not be all that necessary. I’m doing this with two GM2000s and one GM1000. I don’t think about the mounts very much. They just work. I had an issue with a bad cable from the MGPBox to the control unit on one mount, but once that was solved, it’s been fine. That wasn’t 10Micron’s fault.

To answer your other question from your PM about modeling, I use Model Creator 2. It’s a weird little piece of software that is not very intuitive, but it works. One extremely non-intuitive step is that before you build a model, you need to open the driver config dialog, go to the Sync tab, and check both the boxes. Once you’ve built your model, you need to go back there and uncheck the boxes.

The 10u plug-in for NINA didn’t exist when I started doing this, so I’ve never used it. People I respect greatly swear by MountWizzard. I did install that—it was a major pain. But when I brought it up, it looked like there was a learning curve there. Not worth it to me for something I already knew how to do with MC2.

The last model I built for my TOA was a year ago. I’m getting a guiding RMS of about 0.17”/px at 990mm in focal length, so I haven’t felt the need to do it again. I’m using guiding on all three rigs. I’m not really trying to go unguided. Although when I was shooting Polaris with the FSQ at 382mm fl on the GM1000, PHD2 went nuts, so I turned guiding off for that target. The GM1000 did fine with that. But otherwise, I’m guiding. I have the PHD2 exposure interval set to 3 seconds with an aggressiveness of 40% for both axes on all three rigs. It works great.

Having said all that, I know there are wide ranges of opinions on how to use 10u mounts. There are many threads about it here, on CloudyNights, and on the 10u forum. Please look those up. I’m just one data point. What works for me might not work for you.

Whatever you do, don’t let yourself get frustrated and give up. I feel certain that once you get it working, your mount will be the least of your concerns. You’ve got the best mount in the world for what you’re doing.

Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. I think I'll go with Tim's suggestion about using the pulse button on the MGPBox and then opening the virtual hand controller to verify connection. I just tried that and it works fine.

Now I wonder why did I even buy the Digital Logger Web Power Switch? It seems unnecessary. The Pegasus Power Box and the mount are both plugged directly into it. Since I won't be turning the mount on and off with it and I certainly cannot turn off the Pegasus box (mini-pc is connected to it!) as that will make remote connection impossible. Hmm…

Jerry

Jerry Gerber:
Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. I think I'll go with Tim's suggestion about using the pulse button on the MGPBox and then opening the virtual hand controller to verify connection. I just tried that and it works fine.

Now I wonder why did I even buy the Digital Logger Web Power Switch? It seems unnecessary. The Pegasus Power Box and the mount are both plugged directly into it. Since I won't be turning the mount on and off with it and I certainly cannot turn off the Pegasus box (mini-pc is connected to it!) as that will make remote connection impossible. Hmm...

Jerry

Digital logger is very important. A majority of remote locations overstate numbers of clear nights. You will have long stretches with cloudy nights. Then, it is better to switch off channels powering Pegasus power box and separate channel powering 10 microns.

CS!

Armen

AnaTa:
Jerry Gerber:
Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. I think I'll go with Tim's suggestion about using the pulse button on the MGPBox and then opening the virtual hand controller to verify connection. I just tried that and it works fine.

Now I wonder why did I even buy the Digital Logger Web Power Switch? It seems unnecessary. The Pegasus Power Box and the mount are both plugged directly into it. Since I won't be turning the mount on and off with it and I certainly cannot turn off the Pegasus box (mini-pc is connected to it!) as that will make remote connection impossible. Hmm...

Jerry

Digital logger is very important. A majority of remote locations overstate numbers of clear nights. You will have long stretches with cloudy nights. Then, it is better to switch off channels powering Pegasus power box and separate channel powering 10 microns.

CS!

AnaTa:
Jerry Gerber:
Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. I think I'll go with Tim's suggestion about using the pulse button on the MGPBox and then opening the virtual hand controller to verify connection. I just tried that and it works fine.

Now I wonder why did I even buy the Digital Logger Web Power Switch? It seems unnecessary. The Pegasus Power Box and the mount are both plugged directly into it. Since I won't be turning the mount on and off with it and I certainly cannot turn off the Pegasus box (mini-pc is connected to it!) as that will make remote connection impossible. Hmm...

Jerry

Digital logger is very important. A majority of remote locations overstate numbers of clear nights. You will have long stretches with cloudy nights. Then, it is better to switch off channels powering Pegasus power box and separate channel powering 10 microns.

CS!

Armen

If I switch off the channel powering the Pegasus Powerbox I completely lose the ability to log in remotely because the mini-PC is connected to the Powerbox via a 12V connector. I tried that once and the only way to re-establish remote connection is to have Chris, the onsite technician, do it manually.

Jerry Gerber:
AnaTa:
Jerry Gerber:
Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. I think I'll go with Tim's suggestion about using the pulse button on the MGPBox and then opening the virtual hand controller to verify connection. I just tried that and it works fine.

Now I wonder why did I even buy the Digital Logger Web Power Switch?   It seems unnecessary. The Pegasus Power Box and the mount are both plugged directly into it.    Since I won't be turning the mount on and off with it and I certainly cannot turn off the Pegasus box (mini-pc is connected to it!) as that will make remote connection impossible. Hmm...

Jerry

Digital logger is very important. A majority of remote locations overstate numbers of clear nights. You will have long stretches with cloudy nights. Then, it is better to switch off channels powering Pegasus power box and separate channel powering 10 microns.

CS!

AnaTa:
Jerry Gerber:
Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. I think I'll go with Tim's suggestion about using the pulse button on the MGPBox and then opening the virtual hand controller to verify connection. I just tried that and it works fine.

Now I wonder why did I even buy the Digital Logger Web Power Switch?   It seems unnecessary. The Pegasus Power Box and the mount are both plugged directly into it.    Since I won't be turning the mount on and off with it and I certainly cannot turn off the Pegasus box (mini-pc is connected to it!) as that will make remote connection impossible. Hmm...

Jerry

Digital logger is very important. A majority of remote locations overstate numbers of clear nights. You will have long stretches with cloudy nights. Then, it is better to switch off channels powering Pegasus power box and separate channel powering 10 microns.

CS!

Armen

If I switch off the channel powering the Pegasus Powerbox I completely lose the ability to log in remotely because the mini-PC is connected to the Powerbox via a 12V connector.    I tried that once and the only way to re-establish remote connection is to have Chris, the onsite technician, do it manually.

*Ok. I power them separately, since my is 19V computer, and located on pier.
CS!

Armen

Just my two cents, but I would not turn off any of the gear during stretches of bad weather--especially in New Mexico. It will often get extremely humid during those periods. I'd leave everything powered up to keep it warm and leave autodew enabled on the Pegasus. Humidity is the enemy of electronics and optics. If your observatory is climate controlled when it's closed, that would alter my thinking. But mine is not.

As for the PC, I would power that on a separate outlet on the DLI. I do power cycle the PC periodically to clear out software rust. And sometimes USB devices and drivers go south and the only way to fix it is to power cycle everything.

You should still be able to power cycle the PC. There will be a setting in your PC's BIOS to automatically turn on and boot up whenever power is applied to the PC. So you should then be able to power cycle the Pegasus using the Digital Loggers and have the PC come back up. Just be sure the Pegasus is set to automatically turn on all your power outlets when it comes up.

Timothy Martin:
Just my two cents, but I would not turn off any of the gear during stretches of bad weather--especially in New Mexico. It will often get extremely humid during those periods. I'd leave everything powered up to keep it warm and leave autodew enabled on the Pegasus. Humidity is the enemy of electronics and optics. If your observatory is climate controlled when it's closed, that's would alter my thinking. But mine is not.

Hello Tim,

Please allow me to have a different opinion.

To keep the controller permanently running (and mount) in warm condition is not a good idea. Capacitors and voltage regulators age much faster the warmer it is. Also the semiconductors age much quicker (RAM read/write errors). The risk of a hardware failure is significantly increasing when keeping it permanently on. You should only do that, if you have a spare controller stand-by; especially in remote locations.

I understand you argument with humidity, but in such conditions you should consider running a dehumidifier. Humidity is the enemy - true, but boiling it, is even worse.

I took to notice, your observatory is open during day. This causes many more serious problems: Significant temperature gradients, dust and UV. I know a case, where sunlight shining through a window on a pier during day, caused tracking issues at night due to temperature gradients. But this is another story. I think, under such conditions the way is to try to close the observatory and protect gear from such harsh conditions.

By the way: According to specs, the mound is only allowed to be operated (=switched on) up to 35°C. If hotter, you run it our of specifications. Here the controller with its passive cooling is at its the limit (some safety margin). But running it above 35°C may cause heat death of the box and no warranty. Please see manual version 3.1, page 8:

We had this discussion also in the 10M forum to this topic. Here the link to the forum thread (I think you need to be registered, but should work for the 10M owners here): https://www.10micron.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1986

Timothy Martin:
Just my two cents, but I would not turn off any of the gear during stretches of bad weather--especially in New Mexico. It will often get extremely humid during those periods. I'd leave everything powered up to keep it warm and leave autodew enabled on the Pegasus. Humidity is the enemy of electronics and optics. If your observatory is climate controlled when it's closed, that would alter my thinking. But mine is not.

As for the PC, I would power that on a separate outlet on the DLI. I do power cycle the PC periodically to clear out software rust. And sometimes USB devices and drivers go south and the only way to fix it is to power cycle everything.

You should still be able to power cycle the PC. There will be a setting in your PC's BIOS to automatically turn on and boot up whenever power is applied to the PC. So you should then be able to power cycle the Pegasus using the Digital Loggers and have the PC come back up. Just be sure the Pegasus is set to automatically turn on all your power outlets when it comes up.

Excellent. I 'll see if I can get into the BIOS and fix that. And make sure Pegasus turns on all outlets at bootup.

Oops! I tried that but now I cannot connect remotely. I restarted the remote PC hoping to get into the BIOS but as soon as I did that I lost my remote connection. Urgh. The BIOS is probably starting but since Windows isn't yet connected I can't access the computer remotely. The only way is for the onsite tech to get into the BIOS and makes the changes for me.

Jerry Gerber:
Oops! I tried that but now I cannot connect remotely. I restarted the remote PC hoping to get into the BIOS but as soon as I did that I lost my remote connection. Urgh. The BIOS is probably starting but since Windows isn't yet connected I can't access the computer remotely. The only way is for the onsite tech to get into the BIOS and makes the changes for me.

Ouch. Sorry, Jerry.

Ruediger:
Please allow me to have a different opinion.

I hear you. You're right about all that. But I'm not going to be able to put a dehumidifier in there. The good news is that it rarely gets above 35C in there.

Ruediger:
I took to notice, your observatory is open during day.

I'm not sure where you're getting that. It opens about an hour before astronomical dark. It's not open during the day--and certainly not in the heat of the day.

As a practical matter, turning everything off and on every day presents its own issues. I see this go both ways. Some people do that, others don't. I'll check out the thread you linked. Thanks!

Baader Planetarium also makes an on/off remote switch for the 10 Micron mounts it is called the Baader OMS-Nano – Remote Switch for 10Micron Mounts.
I use a MGP box with my GM 3000 and turn it off and on remotely. I have had this for about four years now and never had a problem with it. Although I mostly leave my mount turned on between sessions.

Timothy Martin:
Jerry Gerber:
Oops! I tried that but now I cannot connect remotely. I restarted the remote PC hoping to get into the BIOS but as soon as I did that I lost my remote connection. Urgh. The BIOS is probably starting but since Windows isn't yet connected I can't access the computer remotely. The only way is for the onsite tech to get into the BIOS and makes the changes for me.

Ouch. Sorry, Jerry.

No worries, not your fault. There's a lot to think about when you're 900 miles away from the computer.

One thing I just found out is that the VPN (mine is Tailscale) MUST be installed on the WPS in order to access the WPS from your home computer. That way I an turn everything off and on without concern for losing my remote connection. Live and learn!

AnaTa:
Jerry Gerber:
Thank you everyone for sharing your experience with me. I think I'll go with Tim's suggestion about using the pulse button on the MGPBox and then opening the virtual hand controller to verify connection. I just tried that and it works fine.

Now I wonder why did I even buy the Digital Logger Web Power Switch? It seems unnecessary. The Pegasus Power Box and the mount are both plugged directly into it. Since I won't be turning the mount on and off with it and I certainly cannot turn off the Pegasus box (mini-pc is connected to it!) as that will make remote connection impossible. Hmm...

Jerry

Digital logger is very important. A majority of remote locations overstate numbers of clear nights. You will have long stretches with cloudy nights. Then, it is better to switch off channels powering Pegasus power box and separate channel powering 10 microns.

CS!

Armen

I was going to make this same point. For observatories that run from solar recharged batteries, you should completely power your equipment down each day to reduce the load on the electrical system. And after a long stretch of cloudy weather, leaving equipment on 24/7 will just draw the power down until the sun comes back out. This happens about once per year at Obstech in Chile and the administrators have to ask everyone to power their equipment down until they can bring everything back on line.

John

Timothy Martin:
I'm not sure where you're getting that. It opens about an hour before astronomical dark. It's not open during the day--and certainly not in the heat of the day.

Sorry, I was misinterpreting your sentence: "If your observatory is climate controlled when it's closed, that would alter my thinking. But mine is not".
I referred "mine is not" to "closed". My bad.

Timothy Martin:
Just my two cents, but I would not turn off any of the gear during stretches of bad weather--especially in New Mexico. It will often get extremely humid during those periods. I'd leave everything powered up to keep it warm and leave autodew enabled on the Pegasus. Humidity is the enemy of electronics and optics. If your observatory is climate controlled when it's closed, that would alter my thinking. But mine is not.

As for the PC, I would power that on a separate outlet on the DLI. I do power cycle the PC periodically to clear out software rust. And sometimes USB devices and drivers go south and the only way to fix it is to power cycle everything.

You should still be able to power cycle the PC. There will be a setting in your PC's BIOS to automatically turn on and boot up whenever power is applied to the PC. So you should then be able to power cycle the Pegasus using the Digital Loggers and have the PC come back up. Just be sure the Pegasus is set to automatically turn on all your power outlets when it comes up.

Humidity in NM? Never dropped below 60% in my location.

CS!

Armen