Review of the Touptek IMX585c Cooled camera

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2024

I had to delete the text from this review as Astrobin screwed the formatting up…☹️

Jun 5, 2024

AstroShed:
I had to delete the text from this review as Astrobin screwed the formatting up…☹️

this touptek or the zwo or the player one version?

Usually I'd assume they're all clones with different coloured cases, but there are differences from the version of the sensor to quality of usb sockets, the cooling, potential fan vibration issues and likely more.

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2024

This is the Touptek version, Touptek make cameras for many sellers, such as Rising Cam, Omegon, Altair Astro, the new OGMA brand, and more, but ZWO and player one make there own cameras and so are totally different, just same sensors

Jun 5, 2024

AstroShed:
This is the Touptek version, Touptek make cameras for many sellers, such as Rising Cam, Omegon, Altair Astro, the new OGMA brand, and more, but ZWO and player one make there own cameras and so are totally different, just same sensors

which is the cheapest of those? ;) Will have a Google, Ty

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2024

TiffsAndAstro:
AstroShed:
This is the Touptek version, Touptek make cameras for many sellers, such as Rising Cam, Omegon, Altair Astro, the new OGMA brand, and more, but ZWO and player one make there own cameras and so are totally different, just same sensors

which is the cheapest of those? ;) Will have a Google, Ty

The Touptek Astro version….👍🏻

Jun 6, 2024

Thank you AstroShed for your review, I saw your video earlier last week and I am still waiting for part 2

As far as I know Touptek is the only vendor providing a HDR mode with 16 Bit, which gives you very low read noise (0,6 electrons) with over 14 stops dynamic range.

I must admit that I am a bit disappointed about the camera or the communication of Touptek. They had HDR mode problems and released a firmware to fix that (which it does). What they don't tell you right away (you have to ask Karas the technical engineer from Touptek) is that the new firmware locks out your camera at 14bit with a maximum of 14 Stops dynamic range with almost double the read noise (1,1 - 1,2 Electrons). It's not bad but not what they advertise on their website.

Karas told me they had to do that to guarantee stable performance of the sensor. They are working on another HDR sensor right now (I guess the SC2110) and made some improvements. They hope (lol) they can migrate those improvements to the IMX585 sensor, too.

I did a sharpcap sensor analysis of my camera and found out, then I wrote Karas.

Still thinking about refunding the camera, in this firmware state you get same or better performance (with a bigger FOV) with the IMX533 or IMX571.

Just my 2 cents

CS
Tobi

Helpful

Topic starter

Jun 6, 2024 · Edited: Jun 6, 2024

Tobiasz:
Thank you AstroShed for your review, I saw your video earlier last week and I am still waiting for part 2

As far as I know Touptek is the only vendor providing a HDR mode with 16 Bit, which gives you very low read noise (0,6 electrons) with over 14 stops dynamic range.

I must admit that I am a bit disappointed about the camera or the communication of Touptek. They had HDR mode problems and released a firmware to fix that (which it does). What they don't tell you right away (you have to ask Karas the technical engineer from Touptek) is that the new firmware locks out your camera at 14bit with a maximum of 14 Stops dynamic range with almost double the read noise (1,1 - 1,2 Electrons). It's not bad but not what they advertise on their website.

Karas told me they had to do that to guarantee stable performance of the sensor. They are working on another HDR sensor right now (I guess the SC2110) and made some improvements. They hope (lol) they can migrate those improvements to the IMX585 sensor, too.

I did a sharpcap sensor analysis of my camera and found out, then I wrote Karas.

Still thinking about refunding the camera, in this firmware state you get same or better performance (with a bigger FOV) with the IMX533 or IMX571.

Just my 2 cents

CS
Tobi

Can you tell me the firmware version that you loaded in which causes the camera to be locked at 14 bit… as I did a firmware update on this one when I got it, but never noticed that, very interesting…
Part 2 is comimg, but I had a bad Mountain bike accident 2 weeks ago and still recovering…so no imaging as of late…☹️

Jun 6, 2024

AstroShed:
Tobiasz:
Thank you AstroShed for your review, I saw your video earlier last week and I am still waiting for part 2

As far as I know Touptek is the only vendor providing a HDR mode with 16 Bit, which gives you very low read noise (0,6 electrons) with over 14 stops dynamic range.

I must admit that I am a bit disappointed about the camera or the communication of Touptek. They had HDR mode problems and released a firmware to fix that (which it does). What they don't tell you right away (you have to ask Karas the technical engineer from Touptek) is that the new firmware locks out your camera at 14bit with a maximum of 14 Stops dynamic range with almost double the read noise (1,1 - 1,2 Electrons). It's not bad but not what they advertise on their website.

Karas told me they had to do that to guarantee stable performance of the sensor. They are working on another HDR sensor right now (I guess the SC2110) and made some improvements. They hope (lol) they can migrate those improvements to the IMX585 sensor, too.

I did a sharpcap sensor analysis of my camera and found out, then I wrote Karas.

Still thinking about refunding the camera, in this firmware state you get same or better performance (with a bigger FOV) with the IMX533 or IMX571.

Just my 2 cents

CS
Tobi

Can you tell me the firmware version that you loaded in which causes the camera to be locked at 14 bit… as I did a firmware update on this one when I got it, but never noticed that, very interesting…
Part 2 is comimg, but I had a bad Mountain bike accident 2 weeks ago and still recovering…so no imaging as of late…☹️

Touptek states its the current firmware version 4.35. Every newly ordered camera (including mine) is delivered with it. The changes are subtle and the camera is still good, but not as good as advertised.

To inform future customers at least, I wrote a review on the main Touptek shopsite of the IMX585.

CS

Jun 6, 2024 · Edited: Jun 7, 2024

Oh wow, they removed my review. Now I am angry.

Edit: AstroShed it would be very kind of you if you do a sensor analysis of your camera too and post the results.

You can do it with sharpcap. Settings are HDR, RAW16 format and -10°C. If you have the newest fw version 4.35 you should get similiar results as me.

Edit2: After confronting Touptek with their behaviour on my review they put it back online.

Edit3: The sales colleague talked with the R&D department and assured me they will provide a solution (firmware update) as soon as possible. An update could be released in the following weeks. If it opens up the HDR@16Bit mode again and works with the IMX585 reliably I told them I will upgrade my review to a better rating.

Jun 6, 2024

Tobiasz:
Oh wow, they removed my review. Now I am angry.

Edit2: After confronting Touptek with their behaviour on my review they put it back online.

Edit: AstroShed it would be very kind of you if you do a sensor analysis of your camera too and post the results.

You can do it with sharpcap. Settings are HDR, RAW16 format and -10°C. If you have the newest fw version 4.35 you should get similiar results as me.

good to know i should take touptek off my list. really a shame that more astro companies seem to be very shady

Jun 7, 2024

TiffsAndAstro:
Tobiasz:
Oh wow, they removed my review. Now I am angry.

Edit2: After confronting Touptek with their behaviour on my review they put it back online.

Edit: AstroShed it would be very kind of you if you do a sensor analysis of your camera too and post the results.

You can do it with sharpcap. Settings are HDR, RAW16 format and -10°C. If you have the newest fw version 4.35 you should get similiar results as me.

good to know i should take touptek off my list. really a shame that more astro companies seem to be very shady

I would not call them shady, that's how companies work. If a performance altering firmware update seems shady to you, you have to tell them as a customer, thats why ratings and reviews below shop articles are for. If they remove it (maybe accidently) thats bad, but atleast they were responsive and put it back online. The engineer Karas answered every e-mail I wrote and discussed with the sales department about what the heck happened with my review. In general I would say they managed the situation quite good, I had worse experiences with other (sometimes european) companies.

My rating on the ATR585C will stay as a reminder that they still have to fix something on their presumably best selling camera and I hope they do it soon. Then I will gladly upgrade my review to 5 stars.

I will keep the camera for now as it is still quite good and I'm looking forward to the future software support of the sensor. With this customer support and those high quality products chances are high they won a long time customer with me (side-eyeing the IMX410 >.> )

CS
Tobi

Jun 8, 2024 · Edited: Jun 8, 2024

Tobiasz:
TiffsAndAstro:
Tobiasz:
Oh wow, they removed my review. Now I am angry.

Edit2: After confronting Touptek with their behaviour on my review they put it back online.

Edit: AstroShed it would be very kind of you if you do a sensor analysis of your camera too and post the results.

You can do it with sharpcap. Settings are HDR, RAW16 format and -10°C. If you have the newest fw version 4.35 you should get similiar results as me.

good to know i should take touptek off my list. really a shame that more astro companies seem to be very shady

I would not call them shady, that's how companies work. If a performance altering firmware update seems shady to you, you have to tell them as a customer, thats why ratings and reviews below shop articles are for. If they remove it (maybe accidently) thats bad, but atleast they were responsive and put it back online. The engineer Karas answered every e-mail I wrote and discussed with the sales department about what the heck happened with my review. In general I would say they managed the situation quite good, I had worse experiences with other (sometimes european) companies.

My rating on the ATR585C will stay as a reminder that they still have to fix something on their presumably best selling camera and I hope they do it soon. Then I will gladly upgrade my review to 5 stars.

I will keep the camera for now as it is still quite good and I'm looking forward to the future software support of the sensor. With this customer support and those high quality products chances are high they won a long time customer with me (side-eyeing the IMX410 >.> )

CS
Tobi

i still think its shady, but your very fair minded opinions about this at least means i've put them back on my list

appreciate your efforts and i hope they sort the issues soon.

Jun 30, 2024

Tobiasz:
TiffsAndAstro:
Tobiasz:
Oh wow, they removed my review. Now I am angry.

Edit2: After confronting Touptek with their behaviour on my review they put it back online.

Edit: AstroShed it would be very kind of you if you do a sensor analysis of your camera too and post the results.

You can do it with sharpcap. Settings are HDR, RAW16 format and -10°C. If you have the newest fw version 4.35 you should get similiar results as me.

good to know i should take touptek off my list. really a shame that more astro companies seem to be very shady

I would not call them shady, that's how companies work. If a performance altering firmware update seems shady to you, you have to tell them as a customer, thats why ratings and reviews below shop articles are for. If they remove it (maybe accidently) thats bad, but atleast they were responsive and put it back online. The engineer Karas answered every e-mail I wrote and discussed with the sales department about what the heck happened with my review. In general I would say they managed the situation quite good, I had worse experiences with other (sometimes european) companies.

My rating on the ATR585C will stay as a reminder that they still have to fix something on their presumably best selling camera and I hope they do it soon. Then I will gladly upgrade my review to 5 stars.

I will keep the camera for now as it is still quite good and I'm looking forward to the future software support of the sensor. With this customer support and those high quality products chances are high they won a long time customer with me (side-eyeing the IMX410 >.> )

CS
Tobi

Hi Tobi,
I am following quite closely this forum channel since I am still interested in buying the ATR585C from Touptek once the 16 bit feature is unlocked. Your information has been tremendously informative and actually held me back on pulling the trigger. So kudos to you!!!!

Since it seems that you are in close communication with them about fixing the HDR mode, I was wondering if you have received any updates from them in the past 3 weeks.

Regards,
Sebastiano

Well Written Respectful

Topic starter

Jun 30, 2024

Tobiasz:
TiffsAndAstro:
Tobiasz:
Oh wow, they removed my review. Now I am angry.

Edit2: After confronting Touptek with their behaviour on my review they put it back online.

Edit: AstroShed it would be very kind of you if you do a sensor analysis of your camera too and post the results.

You can do it with sharpcap. Settings are HDR, RAW16 format and -10°C. If you have the newest fw version 4.35 you should get similiar results as me.

good to know i should take touptek off my list. really a shame that more astro companies seem to be very shady

I would not call them shady, that's how companies work. If a performance altering firmware update seems shady to you, you have to tell them as a customer, thats why ratings and reviews below shop articles are for. If they remove it (maybe accidently) thats bad, but atleast they were responsive and put it back online. The engineer Karas answered every e-mail I wrote and discussed with the sales department about what the heck happened with my review. In general I would say they managed the situation quite good, I had worse experiences with other (sometimes european) companies.

My rating on the ATR585C will stay as a reminder that they still have to fix something on their presumably best selling camera and I hope they do it soon. Then I will gladly upgrade my review to 5 stars.

I will keep the camera for now as it is still quite good and I'm looking forward to the future software support of the sensor. With this customer support and those high quality products chances are high they won a long time customer with me (side-eyeing the IMX410 >.> )

CS
Tobi

Hi Tobi,
I am following quite closely this forum channel since I am still interested in buying the ATR585C from Touptek once the 16 bit feature is unlocked. Your information has been tremendously informative and actually held me back on pulling the trigger. So kudos to you!!!!

Since it seems that you are in close communication with them about fixing the HDR mode, I was wondering if you have received any updates from them in the past 3 weeks.

Regards,
Sebastiano

Hello, I was the one that did this initial review of the camera, and they lent me the camera for the review, I have told them until they send me the information on what they have done with the firmware on the camera to change the way the HDR mode works, then I can’t to the part 2 of the video because I want to include all that information, they are being very quiet about it and I am not getting much out of them, so my guess, is that it’s not going to get any better than it is now, at least not anytime soon. I think it’s only fair to be honest and up front in my video, and I want to share what has been done and what they plan do do in the future, if they ever give me the information….

Jun 30, 2024 · Edited: Jun 30, 2024

Tobiasz:
TiffsAndAstro:
Tobiasz:
Oh wow, they removed my review. Now I am angry.

Edit2: After confronting Touptek with their behaviour on my review they put it back online.

Edit: AstroShed it would be very kind of you if you do a sensor analysis of your camera too and post the results.

You can do it with sharpcap. Settings are HDR, RAW16 format and -10°C. If you have the newest fw version 4.35 you should get similiar results as me.

good to know i should take touptek off my list. really a shame that more astro companies seem to be very shady

I would not call them shady, that's how companies work. If a performance altering firmware update seems shady to you, you have to tell them as a customer, thats why ratings and reviews below shop articles are for. If they remove it (maybe accidently) thats bad, but atleast they were responsive and put it back online. The engineer Karas answered every e-mail I wrote and discussed with the sales department about what the heck happened with my review. In general I would say they managed the situation quite good, I had worse experiences with other (sometimes european) companies.

My rating on the ATR585C will stay as a reminder that they still have to fix something on their presumably best selling camera and I hope they do it soon. Then I will gladly upgrade my review to 5 stars.

I will keep the camera for now as it is still quite good and I'm looking forward to the future software support of the sensor. With this customer support and those high quality products chances are high they won a long time customer with me (side-eyeing the IMX410 >.> )

CS
Tobi

Hi Tobi,
I am following quite closely this forum channel since I am still interested in buying the ATR585C from Touptek once the 16 bit feature is unlocked. Your information has been tremendously informative and actually held me back on pulling the trigger. So kudos to you!!!!

Since it seems that you are in close communication with them about fixing the HDR mode, I was wondering if you have received any updates from them in the past 3 weeks.

Regards,
Sebastiano

No updates on that topic from Touptek. I wrote an E-Mail to them asking how the development is going.

Let's see if I get more information.

Edit: They responded. It seems they have a new firmware version that needs to be tested, but they have rainy weather for 2 weeks now.

Regards

Jul 5, 2024

hhmmmm Interesting reply from Touptek. I always though that these camera manufacturers should be able to test in the laboratory and do some value readings or whatever?

I guess we will all just wait for better weather…our destiny anyway in astrophotography

Thank you Tobi.

BR//Sebastiano

Jul 14, 2024

I asked Touptek and they replied me that they expect to publish the test result by end of the month.

Topic starter

Jul 17, 2024

I have been in touch with Touptek again and now have the very latest firmware to try, dated 2 days ago, it’s not released to the public as of yet, and I need to test and send feedback to them, they also say it now solves the issues with the HDR setting and should work as intended….
will be running some sensor analysis before and after the new update…

Jul 17, 2024

Same for me, they send me the newest firmware and Touptek ASCOM driver. It is important that you use the .dll they sent the FW with. Only then tools like sharpcap can properly utilise the HDR mode, which is absolutely fantastic after the newest tests with SharpCap Sensor Analysis.

Gentlemen and Gentlewomen, we have 16Bit and almost 16 Stops of dynamic range, which is unbelievable.

My result with Sharpcap was
Gain: 100
e/ADU: 0.44
Read Noise: 0.6e (much better than before)
Full well: 29000e (also much better)
Rel. Gain: 1
Rel Gain (db): 0
Dynamic Range (Stops) 15.56 (!!!)

Will post the Sharpcap Screenshot later.

Regards

Helpful Engaging

Jul 17, 2024

Absolute fantastic results.

Jul 17, 2024

Dream that comes true. This camera is finally a winner as it was supposed to be when advertised. It has them all !!!!!!
Thank you for following up with Touptek. Actually just today they sent me the same message since I have been asking them fur updates several time. They kept their word and recovered a negative situation.
I placed the order and can't wait to get my hands on it

Seba

Jul 17, 2024

With those breathtaking specs one could think about doing lucky imaging.

Used Noise Analysis in Stacked Exposures Version 1.16 (smallstarspot.com) and typed in normal rural darkness 20mag/arc/s paired with a F/3 system (e.g. F/4 Newton with Nexus Reducer) and Gain 177 (0,43e). Read Noise would be overwhelmed tenfold within 0,8 seconds (!)

If you have enough disk space, you could shoot deep sky with extremely sharp details and still have good SNR, wow. Seeing won't be much of a factor with 0,1-0,5s exposures

Very excited about the new generation of HDR sensors.