Jerry Gerber avatar
Hey all,

If I were to image NGC 6144 with a 100mm refractor and a narrowband filter (L-Ultimate) should I reduce the subs to 60sec or less because of how bright Antares is?  I don't want to burn out the star in order to capture detail in the nebulosity.  What technique would make it more likely I get the nebula + Antares?  I'll be under Bortle 2 skies and will have many hours to expose as the weather prediction is for clear and very little wind all night…

Thanks!
Jerry
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Jon Rista avatar
If you want to capture the star fully, then with very bright stars like that, the best option is to do multiple captures and HDR composition. Some stars are so bright they will saturate long before you can pick up any reasonable signal on fainter details, and its usually not worth completely sacrificing those details to keep the bright star(s). 

With an HDR composition, you can blend across multiple integrations of shorter and shorter integrations to produce a higher dynamic range, supporting the entire range of the brighter star(s). This is usually how people capture good detail in the core of M42 (The Trapezium), while still capturing strong signal on the fainter details.
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Jerry Gerber avatar
Jon Rista:
If you want to capture the star fully, then with very bright stars like that, the best option is to do multiple captures and HDR composition. Some stars are so bright they will saturate long before you can pick up any reasonable signal on fainter details, and its usually not worth completely sacrificing those details to keep the bright star(s). 

With an HDR composition, you can blend across multiple integrations of shorter and shorter integrations to produce a higher dynamic range, supporting the entire range of the brighter star(s). This is usually how people capture good detail in the core of M42 (The Trapezium), while still capturing strong signal on the fainter details.

Thanks Jon;  Are you talking about 10sec subs, 30 sec subs...can you give me some idea of how short short is?

And to capture High dynamic Range is it just about sub exposure or something else?

Jerry
Jon Rista avatar
Jerry Gerber:
Jon Rista:
If you want to capture the star fully, then with very bright stars like that, the best option is to do multiple captures and HDR composition. Some stars are so bright they will saturate long before you can pick up any reasonable signal on fainter details, and its usually not worth completely sacrificing those details to keep the bright star(s). 

With an HDR composition, you can blend across multiple integrations of shorter and shorter integrations to produce a higher dynamic range, supporting the entire range of the brighter star(s). This is usually how people capture good detail in the core of M42 (The Trapezium), while still capturing strong signal on the fainter details.

Thanks Jon;  Are you talking about 10sec subs, 30 sec subs...can you give me some idea of how short short is?

And to capture High dynamic Range is it just about sub exposure or something else?

Jerry

Yup, exactly. Short is as short as necessary to not clip. There is no standard here. It will be dictated by your brightest in-frame star. Just experiment, figure out how short you need to go, then figure out how many sequences will be necessary to capture the full range of the star as well as the faint details. There will be a bit of a balancing act. If you wildly blow out the bright star(s) to capture the fainter details, then you might have some trouble even with an HDR composition. There may (thought not always) be some tradeoff in faint signal SNR and over-saturating the bright star halos. If you can maintain the balance well enough so that no significant portion of the bright star halos saturates, then you should be fine. 

It isn't unusual to have half a dozen sequences to fully capture bright star DR. You want to make sure that each set of subs doesn't have too few. You want a reasonable SNR in each set, so don't skimp. The only set that truly needs a LOT of data is the faint signal set. You may find that you need 10 (or there abouts) seconds subs to prevent clipping, then several more sets at longer exposures, potentially scaling up to several minutes per sub for the faint details. The key is that for the longest exposures, you just don't want to start saturating much of the halo (the part right around the bright core is ok, but if you start saturating more of the halo, then an HDR composition may not work.
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Dale Penkala avatar
Nothing really for me to add here Jerry, @Jon Rista has it spot on. This is how I deal with bright stars/objects like he mentions with M42 and you could even include B33 with Alnitak in that field as well.

Dale
Juan Pablo De la Cruz avatar
Jon Rista:
If you want to capture the star fully, then with very bright stars like that, the best option is to do multiple captures and HDR composition. Some stars are so bright they will saturate long before you can pick up any reasonable signal on fainter details, and its usually not worth completely sacrificing those details to keep the bright star(s). 

With an HDR composition, you can blend across multiple integrations of shorter and shorter integrations to produce a higher dynamic range, supporting the entire range of the brighter star(s). This is usually how people capture good detail in the core of M42 (The Trapezium), while still capturing strong signal on the fainter details.

I have consistently used the same exposure settings for my deep-sky object (DSO) subs and am now interested in capturing finer details of bright stars within or surrounding the DSOs. I have a question regarding integration techniques. If I combine shorter subs, for example, 50 exposures of 20 seconds each, with longer subs, such as 20 exposures of 300 seconds each, would the shorter exposures contribute to enhancing the detail in the final image?"
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Jon Rista avatar
Juan Pablo De la Cruz:
Jon Rista:
If you want to capture the star fully, then with very bright stars like that, the best option is to do multiple captures and HDR composition. Some stars are so bright they will saturate long before you can pick up any reasonable signal on fainter details, and its usually not worth completely sacrificing those details to keep the bright star(s). 

With an HDR composition, you can blend across multiple integrations of shorter and shorter integrations to produce a higher dynamic range, supporting the entire range of the brighter star(s). This is usually how people capture good detail in the core of M42 (The Trapezium), while still capturing strong signal on the fainter details.

I have consistently used the same exposure settings for my deep-sky object (DSO) subs and am now interested in capturing finer details of bright stars within or surrounding the DSOs. I have a question regarding integration techniques. If I combine shorter subs, for example, 50 exposures of 20 seconds each, with longer subs, such as 20 exposures of 300 seconds each, would the shorter exposures contribute to enhancing the detail in the final image?"

You wouldn't want to stack them all together in a single integration (I know PI has some new scaling algorithms that are based on photometry, but even then, I still wouldn't stack them all into a single integration.)

What you would need to do is an HDR composition. For that, you would integrate your long, medium, short, etc. exposures into different integrations. Then you would combine them into a high dynamic range image by combining different signal ranges from each. PixInsight has an HDRComposition tool that can do this. I don't know if other popular astro processing tools do, but its worth checking. For any object where you feel you might have trouble with limited dynamic range in the hardware (and heck, even though ~14 stops is very good, its still far from enough to capture many brighter deep space objects well!) an HDR composition is the best way to expand the dynamic range to...well, any degree you want, really. 

It is a process, though. You would integrate your 300 second subs into one integration, then integrate your 20 second subs into a second. You might even want to consider some middling length subs, maybe 150 seconds, to avoid funky transitions in the HDR composite. Once you have all of your individual integrations you would then HDR combine them. You may even be able to do this combination with Photoshop, which has long had 32-bit float HDR capabilities and HDR image composition tools.
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